Perfect Rhymes vs. Imperfect Rhymes- Page 2

[rattleNwoolypenguin]

Posted: 7/14/20 at 3:00pm

I defend Petra's smart lyricism in Miller's Son cause I think she IS more intelligent than the other characters give her credit for. 

It's always worked for me cause what separates Petra from them is class, but that doesn't mean she is dumb.

[Charley Kringas Inc]

Posted: 7/15/20 at 2:27pm

Miller's Son also falls in line stylistically with the rest of the evening - Petra has a deep understanding of life, and she expresses it in the language of the musical she's in.

On the other hand, "trip the light fandango" and "pitch the quick fantastic" are kind of inexcusable, and the idea that perfect rhyme suggests intelligence and education is absurd. If you write a musical about idiots using perfect rhyme, the characters are still idiots.

[rattleNwoolypenguin]

Posted: 7/15/20 at 2:56pm

Unrelated but I think Beetlejuice uses near rhyme when it's convenient and I think it shows and is a detriment  to the score

[Alex Kulak2]

Posted: 7/15/20 at 6:59pm

The near rhymes don’t bother me as much as others, but I would agree. It would’ve been better if the more uptight characters, like Adam and Barbara only had perfect rhyme.

[AADA81]

Posted: 7/15/20 at 11:02pm

There are songs that rhyme to precision, and songs that rhyme to the point where the author's cleverness is the only thing heard.  There are also songs that intentionally don't rhyme and work perfectly.  However, cheat rhymes are a lazy writer's avenue to complete a song without craft.  A rhyme that;s overdone is too clever, but a rhyme that's underdone is lazy and belongs outside of the theater because it calls attention to the author's shortcomings, not the character's.

[Charley Kringas Inc]

Posted: 7/15/20 at 11:04pm

Mentioning these lyrics from Beetlejuice again because I hate them:

'Cause we're all on a hitlist
Might not live 'till Christmas
Choke to death on Triscuits
Hey, that just statistics

It's almost impressive because it's four pairs of syllables that almost rhyme, but none of them rhyme with any of the others. You have it-ist, ist-mas, isc-its, and ist-ics. "Ist" appears three times, but only twice in the same place in the word (ChrISTmas/statISTics), and even then they really don't sound the same. In the very next four lines, he rhymes perfectly:

So take a little break here
Kinda like a wake here
The scenery is fake here
But there's a giant snake here

Which, again, if it was established that he did one or the other, it wouldn't really matter as much. In fact, it would even make sense for Beetlejuice to be bad at rhyming (his first lyric rhymes "pardon" with "barge in" ), but he's not. He's sometimes bad at rhyming, and that just makes it seem like Eddie Perfect is sometimes bad at rhyming.

Updated On: 7/15/20 at 11:04 PM

[HogansHero]

Posted: 7/16/20 at 12:50am

"If you write a musical about idiots using perfect rhyme, the characters are still idiots."

That is absolutely true and it underscores the essential point here. What one writes expresses one's intention. It can be your intention to rhyme perfectly above all else. (Some here would criticize that.) It can be your intention to make a statement about idiots by having their words rhyme perfectly. It can be your intention to not make a statement at all by how you rhyme. And then there is the listener. And they too have lots of options. This leads to the essential truth: there are no rules that extend beyond the individual. 

[Alex Kulak2]

Posted: 7/16/20 at 9:09am

Charley Kringas Inc said: "Mentioning these lyrics from Beetlejuice again because I hate them:

'Cause we're all on a hitlist
Might not live 'till Christmas
Choke to death on Triscuits
Hey, that just statistics

It's almost impressive because it's four pairs of syllablesthat almost rhyme, but none of them rhyme with any of the others. You have it-ist, ist-mas, isc-its, and ist-ics. "Ist" appears three times, but only twice in the same place in the word (ChrISTmas/statISTics), and even then they really don't sound the same. In the very next four lines, he rhymes perfectly:

So take a little break here
Kinda like a wake here
The scenery is fake here
But there's a giant snake here

Which, again, if it was established that he did one or the other, it wouldn't really matter as much. In fact, it would even make sense for Beetlejuice to be bad at rhyming (his first lyric rhymes "pardon" with "barge in" ), but he's not. He's sometimes bad at rhyming, and that just makes it seem like Eddie Perfect is sometimes bad at rhyming."

To be fair, his first lyric is changed to "Welcome to the Winter Garden" on Broadway.

One thing I've mentioned before on this board is that Eddie Perfect is Australian, so he uses rhymes that work in an Australian accent that don't work in an American accent (you see the same thing with Tim Minchin). One that sticks out to me is in "No Reason", when Lydia rhymes "wars" with "cause". That works in an Australian accent (similar to how a Brooklynite would rhyme "picture" with "hit ya", but it doesn't in an American accent.

Many of the near rhymes in the show aren't saved by this, but I'm interested in how the two Australian musical comedy writers who've broken into the American mainstream (Perfect and Minchin) both use near rhyme and accent rhymes.

[kdogg36]

Posted: 7/16/20 at 9:26am

This is also true of Tim Rice and his non-rhotic British accent (for example, he rhymes “floor” and “law” in “Blood Money” from Jesus Christ Superstar). I find it a little jarring in this case because, unlike the Australian lyricists you mention, Tim Rice usually does use perfect rhymes, so this apparent anomaly really sticks out. (Of course, it’s only an anomaly for me; for him those are indeed perfect rhymes.)

Updated On: 7/16/20 at 09:26 AM

[henrikegerman]

Posted: 7/18/20 at 11:06am

They both have their value. 

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