Gypsy as a High School Play

[WW_LV]

Posted: 5/22/20 at 5:07pm

I've seen this discussed on here - frankly I was surprised it's done in high school but being the Great American Musical I can see directors / drama departments giving it a try.

My curiosity as a parent (kids now grown) - was in the staging of the striptease sequences.  I will admit I had the Broadway style play in mind and assumed it would be re-staged for High School.  But the first YouTube video I found did not.

I debated this issue on another forum and things fell apart in a hurry.  The fact is, it's nearly impossible to discuss how - as a parent - I'd feel awkward without mentioning the (obvious) fact that a striptease is in fact sexual.

I realize the sequence is to demonstrate Louise transitioning from clumsy and unsure to confident and in control.  Makes sense - no issue, except...

In one HS YouTube video I saw, the last scene was staged much like the professional play - where she strips, wraps the curtain around her, and struts apparently nude while singing the (now risque) lyrics.  And the audience applauds her - as the scene ends.

Uh - the audience of parents just applauded a supposedly nude high school girl's striptease?  


And the hat scene is included in some - and again, the audience applauds.  Uh - what are we applauding?  There wasn't anything in that scene EXCEPT a high school girl doing a striptease.

Now I later saw examples where the directors moved the scenes from one to the other without time for applause.  And staged the last one so the strip was not a focus.  Some had her revealed in a corset or something - so we're not applauding a (supposedly) naked high school girl.  Some had no strip at all.

Am I off base for thinking the directors in some sense SHOULD recognize the obvious awkwardness of parents seemingly applauding a HS girl's striptease?  And do I really have to explain what makes it awkward?

I anticipate some "well, you're not REALLY applauding that..." comments - but I'll stop here.  Just realize I saw examples I'd have no objection to, since they avoid staging it like the strip is a focus of the entertainment.

Updated On: 5/22/20 at 05:07 PM

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 5/22/20 at 6:32pm

I don't think your concern is unreasonable and I certainly wouldn't object to the elements you mention that show Louise isn't actually nude behind the hat or curtain.

On the other hand, the whole point of the number is that Gypsy Rose Lee never really shows any nudity, not at any age. In fact, if done right, she shows less of her body than your average teenaged girl at the beach. So there is a context to the "tease" that makes it different from, say, a high school kid in pasties and a thong.

I'd probably be more bothered by high school girls doing "Big Spender" in SWEET CHARITY.

FWIW, Nana Tucker, who played Louise with Angela Lansbury in 1976, was 19.

[Broadway61004]

Posted: 5/22/20 at 6:41pm

If high schools can do Rent and A Chorus Line, I see no real issue with Gypsy. They obviously need to treat those scenes differently than a professional company may, of course, but as you said there are plenty of ways to do that.

[WW_LV]

Posted: 5/22/20 at 7:22pm

As happened on the other forum, my specific point I think is lost

It's not the age of the actress. Not at all

It's the audience - parents watching

Very different than a professional plays audience

As I said, as a dad, I'd be uncomfortable sitting in a high school theater watching and applauding a supposedly nude high school girl entertaining me

And the fact she's not actually nude isn't the point either..

It's the fact we are parents - watching a high school play - expected to applaud her striptease

Applaud singing , dancing, etc. Of course!.

A striptease? No.

Pro theater, community, college. No issue

High school play staging a strip tease as entertainment?

A high school girl - in a high school play, with parents, relative (and kids?) as the primary audience should not expect to be entertained as if we're in a burlesque house with a high school girl as the start of the show.

Maybe some parents would sit there and applaud without awkwardness

I find that hard to believe

 

The point to me is easy - stage it so we're applauding the whole sequence of scenes culminating in Louise now being a star on her own terms

Not what a great striptease she just did.

Let's take the hat scene as another example - it shows her evolving act.  Her "gimmick"  Very short and obviously not at all graphic. 

 

But she talks, takes off her dress, hides her apparent nudity like Gypsy did, keeps talking and the lights go down. 

Yay??   What exactly are we applauding here?  A striptease done by a high school girl in front of an audience of parents etc

Most go right into the announcement of her at Minsky's - but some pause to let the audience show their appreciation

Again - parents etc, in a high school theater - watching a high school play - clapping for this high school girls striptease as if we were entertained by it.

It's necessary to advance the story (though some skip this one I think too) - it's NOT meant as entertainment.

And the last scene especially - we're going to clap - let's make sure we're not in effect clapping for her striptease as if we're watching the a professional (or even community) version of the play.

My opinion - and as I said I'd be surprised if any dad in that audience would say - "no , you're wrong.  Why shouldn't I enjoy her striptease act?"

Updated On: 5/22/20 at 07:22 PM

[WW_LV]

Posted: 5/22/20 at 7:46pm

1.  I understand your point, and yet my reason (as a father to grown children, wondering where things are going) was curiosity.  Not what you are implying

2.  I think checking out how it's done makes a lot more sense than saying it's out of line without doing that

As I said, I thought at first it was absolutely wrong, saw one that I figured really was and was surprised parents were ok with it; found out from discussion others don't do that - and saw a couple others that showed the staging really DOES make a difference.

Your accusation - as out of line as it is - does't somehow prove it's ok for parents in a high school play to be entertained by a high school girl stripping.

In fact, it seems to show that some people DON'T see anything wrong with staging a high school girl's striptease as entertainment.,

 

[WW_LV]

Posted: 5/22/20 at 7:57pm

I have no objection to mature themes - the difference to me is whether it advances the story or if it's staged as entertainment.

In a musical, the musical scenes presumably do both - though sometimes just for entertainment.

"Everything's Coming Up Roses" is both.  We applaud the singing though, right?

The Louise's transition sequences are to advance the story.  Is the last one for entertainment too?

If so - in that setting I suggest it's important how it's staged.

I have ZERO objection to the play.  I do have an objection - as a parent - to feel I'm supposed to be entertained in this setting by the girl stripping.  

I can see the high school kids saying "Can you believe all the parents are applauding Megan as she struts and sings "nude" behind the curtain?"

Sometimes I wonder if we haven't gotten to the point where almost anything in a high school play is ok, because if an older person raises the point, we'll just call him creepy.

Updated On: 5/22/20 at 07:57 PM

[Erzlump]

Posted: 5/22/20 at 8:28pm

I just want to know: Aren't her spoken lines just as awkward for parents though ("I've been too busy learning Greek"  )?

I do agree that there's a difference between focusing the act and focusing on the meaning of the act in your direction and of course HS directors should not choose an overtly sexual direction of the scene, but the scene is inherently what you describe, a striptease. However, I hesitate to outright reject controversial subject matter for HS plays (you can only perform Annie and Into the Woods so often). I'd sure say it is appropriate to hold back a bit when it comes to the strip (gloves, jewels, maybe switch from a longer into a shorter dress). But you will never get the sexual element out of the strip entirely, and I wonder if you would to the piece justice if you would try and/or removed the strip and its connotations entirely. Maybe in this case, if the question is if sensibilities will be offended, or worse, if your young actors could be uncomfortable, maybe this just isn't the right show to put on. 

All in all, I do feel conflicted by this topic. 

Updated On: 5/22/20 at 08:28 PM

[blaxx]

Posted: 5/22/20 at 8:41pm

Broadway61004 said: "If high schools can do Rent and A Chorus Line, I see no real issue with Gypsy. They obviously need to treat those scenes differently than a professional company may, of course, but as you said there are plenty of ways to do that. "

ReNt and A Chorus Line touch a lot of themes that high schoolers relate to. 

Gypsy in a high school would be strange, not as much for the strip but the fact that it revolves around an infamous obsessive stage mom and her submissively obedient daughters. That would be so awkward to watch. 

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 5/22/20 at 8:49pm

WW_LV said: "As happened on the other forum, my specific point I think is lost

It's not the age of the actress. Not at all

It's the audience - parents watching

Very different than a professional plays audience

As I said, as a dad, I'd be uncomfortable sitting in a high school theater watching and applauding a supposedly nude high school girl entertaining me

And the fact she's not actually nude isn't the point either..

It's the fact we are parents - watching a high school play - expected to applaud her striptease

Applaud singing , dancing, etc. Of course!.

A striptease? No.

Pro theater, community, college. No issue

High school play staging a strip tease as entertainment?

A high school girl - in a high school play, with parents, relative (and kids?) as the primary audience should not expect to be entertained as if we're in a burlesque house with a high school girl as the start of the show.

Maybe some parents would sit there and applaud without awkwardness

I find that hard to believe



The point to me is easy - stage it so we're applauding the whole sequence of scenes culminating in Louise now being a star on her own terms

Not what a great striptease she just did.

Let's take the hat scene as another example - it shows her evolving act. Her "gimmick" Very short and obviously not at all graphic.



But she talks, takes off her dress, hides her apparent nudity like Gypsy did, keeps talking and the lights go down.

Yay?? What exactly are we applauding here? A striptease done by a high school girl in front of an audience of parents etc

Most go right into the announcement of her at Minsky's - but some pause to let the audience show their appreciation

Again - parents etc, in a high school theater - watching a high school play - clapping for this high school girls striptease as if we were entertained by it.

It's necessary to advance the story (though some skip this one I think too) - it's NOT meant as entertainment.

And the last scene especially - we're going to clap - let's make sure we're not in effect clapping for her striptease as if we're watching the a professional (or even community) version of the play.

My opinion - and as I said I'd be surprised if any dad in that audience would say - "no , you're wrong. Why shouldn't I enjoy her striptease act?""

Well, AS I SAID IN THE VERY FIRST RESPONSE TO YOUR POST, your concerns are certainly justified. Yes, I am also a father (and a grandfather with a granddaughter in high school).

But you keep discussing Gypsy Rose Lee's number as if it were any striptease, when the entire point of the number is the opposite, that (true or not) Lee made her reputation by NOT acting like a common stripper. Even by the end of the number, she is more playful than salacious, witty not bawdy.

Now I should add that I am a gay man, so a naked teenaged girl is not a fantasy of mine (nor a naked teen boy, but that's another subject). Maybe this is one of those "in the eye of the beholder" things.

So far, nobody has disagreed with your suggestion that it be clear the child isn't actually naked under her "props".

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 5/22/20 at 8:54pm

My real horror at the thought of a high school GYPSY is any 17-year-old playing Madame Rose. Yes, even Stephanie J. Block, who talked about having done so in her Lincoln Center concert.

Isn't this one of the castings that the movie CAMP mocks? (I know "Ladies Who Lunch" is another.)

[WW_LV]

Posted: 5/22/20 at 9:48pm

Gaveston-

Apologies for focusing on your comment about the age of the actress 

 

Yes - you agreed with me and I appreciate that. And others. Who understood its the audience of parents watching a high school play.

 

Its a somewhat tricky situation as others said. Even the "bawdy" talk is ok - even vital 'to show her command of the stage

Just don't have her walk up and down directing it to specific people in the real audience of parents 

Obviously also you can't hide the fact she was a stripper. But you don't have to make the striptease a major focus. And certainly not stage it as if it's to be enjoyed and applauded 

To me though it's not that tough. Someone in another discussion emphasized the idea that she's not performing for the people in the real audience. It's for an unseen burlesque house

As long as it's staged so she doesn't break the "fourth wall" like the professional play does, no issue

Its when any of the scenes appear to be directed as us (as parents watching a high school play) I feel it's not appropriate 

It can be done.  It has been done

[NOWaWarning]

Posted: 5/23/20 at 12:01am

I’ve seen a high school production of Gypsy. The way the strip sequence was staged was very demure and worked just fine. I recall she just removed gloves and panels and accessories. Probably the most we ever saw was some leg with the hat bit. And I don’t think any bit of the story or character arc was missing without having a nude illusion.

I personally found the bigger issue with a high school Gypsy was that Rose isn’t a role for a teenager.

[dramamama611]

Posted: 5/23/20 at 10:02am

Well - to be fair - MOST musicals aren't meant to be played by teenagers.

As to the OP.   Would I produce it?  Probably not, but the striptease section would only be a small part of my consideration.  I don't think audience members are applauding a striptease of a hs student.  They are applauding the resourcefulness of Gypsy Rose Lee.  (Except the straight HS boys in the audience.)

I have produced all sorts of things with my HS kids.  Definitely some things my predecessor wouldn't have dreamed of.   Maybe even that my successor wouldn't do.  But any time I've chosen to do something that would push the envelope, you had better believe I have a big sit down with my admin before announcing things to the public.   

I've even done shows that REQUIRED parental permission before auditioning.  (To still have an anonymous parent try to get us shut down 1 week before opening).   I get away with a lot, I push the envelope often and get accused of having an agenda (which I probably do.)  Too bad.  My JOB is to bring a varied experience to my students, I want them to think, to feel, to feel.   

I try not to judge what others choose to do.  If it would make you uncomfortable, don't see it, don't allow your children to be involved. If the school ALLOWS it, so be it.  That's for each community to determine.

[bwayobsessed]

Posted: 5/23/20 at 10:27am

Frankly, my problem with Gypsy as a high school show is that it’s 90% 3 actors (and most of that one actor) with very little ensemble involvement. IMO a high school show should have a large interesting ensemble so as many kids as possible are engaged.

That aside, I did Rent and Sweeney Todd in high school so I may have skewed opinions but I think one could also argue that some of the applause you are hearing is from her classmates. I’d imagine the person playing Louise is not a freshman, but, even if she is, she is experiencing content worse than Gypsy when she is online/watching movies. The students are prepared for relatively tame content all things considered so the parents should get over it. Of course I don’t have children so maybe my view would change if I was a parent. I think it’s the same as an adult actor’s parents feeling awkward watching them do a nude seen. It’s about the relationship to the actor. If the actor is comfortable is what’s important.

[dramamama611]

Posted: 5/23/20 at 11:12am

Watching something vs portraying something are very different things.

[WW_LV]

Posted: 5/23/20 at 11:21am

"I don't think audience members are applauding a striptease of a hs student.  They are applauding the resourcefulness of Gypsy Rose Lee.  (Except the straight HS boys in the audience.)"

Yes - that's EXACTLY how it SHOULD be staged.  But I unfortunately saw examples where it isn't.  The last scene in particular of one staged it like the full play - where the audience banter (to SPECIFIC audience members), striptease, and singing while (supposedly) nude led to audience applause.

It broke the fourth wall - obviously intentional - like the full play does  Suddenly the audience of parents IS the burlesque audience.  Again like the play - where in some cases she actually goes into the audience.  Thankfully, this HS production didn't' go THAT far.)

It's a specific point that can get lost.  I object - as a parent - to be put in a position where I'm expected to applaud that.  And I later saw many (I now assume most) HS productions stage it to avoid that.
 
And I'm not at all making any commentary on the content of the play (I think it's fine for HS , except this one POTENTIAL issue issue) - and certainly not talking about what teenagers see etc.

Obviously teenagers see all kinds of sexual things.  The point here is what do we put on for parents to see?

A "sexual scene" isn't the issue either - if it's necessary to advance the story.  As these scenes are in Gypsy.

My issue - very specific - is I don't think it's appropriate to stage a sexual scene as if its entertainment for the audience of parents to applaud.

A poster on another board mentioned her HS put on Heathers - and there is a scene with her losing her virginity that was staged pretty much as the full play.  I have no idea what that implies - but again, the audience of parents aren't APPLAUDING it as entertainment.

A play like that, or Rent, or others that "push things" are fine for HS.  Sensitivity to the audience is still necessary of course - but ..

in this case - my only point is it felt wrong when I saw examples of a HS audience of parents applauding the HS girl stripping.

And I'll bet the kids thought that was pretty funny.  

Updated On: 5/23/20 at 11:21 AM

[WW_LV]

Posted: 5/23/20 at 11:25am

"Watching something vs portraying something are very different things."

Absolutely.  The fact is - the actress is portraying Gypsy, not entertaining us.  A poster who played the part made that point very strongly.

Which made me realize what I found wrong in a couple productions.  Staging it such that it actually appeared "Louise" WAS entertaining us - eliciting applause from the audience of parents for her stripteases.

BTW - thank you everyone for the responses and very helpful discussion. 

[bwayobsessed]

Posted: 5/23/20 at 12:10pm

My issue - very specific - is I don't think it's appropriate to stage a sexual scene as if its entertainment for the audienceof parents to applaud.

I would say a high school play isn’t for the parents but for the students in the play. I think, if the students are mature enough to broach the material in a responsible way, the parents should be mature enough to watch it. I understand that parents may be uncomfortable which is fair but it isn’t about the parents it’s about the students.

[dramamama611]

Posted: 5/23/20 at 12:40pm

Lot of truth there, Broadway Obsessed.

When I choose a show parents balk at...because they cant bring a younger sibling? Too bad. It's not about the sibling.

[NOWaWarning]

Posted: 5/23/20 at 1:19pm

dramamama611 said: "Well - to be fair - MOST musicals aren't meant to be played by teenagers.

Very true haha. I guess I just meant because Rose is such a juggernaut that you want a seasoned actress to sink her teeth into.

 

[Rumpelstiltskin]

Posted: 5/23/20 at 10:30pm

The striptease number can be staged to address the OP’s concerns.  When we did Gypsy in High School (a hundred and fifty years ago), the number was done with the actress’ back to the audience in order to feature the mimed reactions of a mixed-gender “audience” onstage, and the song flowed seamlessly into the following book scene to avoid the awkward applause.  I didn’t understand the director’s choices at the time, but now see what he achieved.

I loved doing Gypsy back then. Our Rose was a force of nature; June and Gypsy were extremely well played.  And the secondary boy roles (Tulsa, Yonkers, etc.) were fun dancing/singing somewhat age-appropriate roles for two sets (the characters at different ages) of talented kids.
 

 

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 5/24/20 at 2:12am

It occurred to me later that my local community college--which does rather good productions considering what it is and where we are--did GUYS AND DOLLS a few years ago, with college freshwomen playing the Hat Box Girls.

"Take Back Your Mink" is basically a strip number, but, frankly, the 18- and 19-year-old women were so uncomfortable in their own bodies still that it didn't even dawn on me that I was watching teenagers strip. Of course, "stripping" isn't made an issue the way it is in GYPSY, but I wonder how many high school girls really have it in them to make anyone uncomfortable.

[Jarethan]

Posted: 5/24/20 at 2:29am

I have to admit that I would probably be uncomfortable going to a HS production and discovering that my daughter is playing Tessie Tura.  I find it hard to believe that a teenage girl has the depth to play Rose, but I am probably wrong.

[dramamama611]

Posted: 5/24/20 at 5:05am

Comedy roles make most uncomfortable situations easier to handle, which addresses the last two comments. Additionally, there is no nudity insinuation for the Hot Box girls. They only strip to a corset...which is more modest than most bathing suits.

And I've never had a parent not know what role their kid was playing.

[WW_LV]

Posted: 5/24/20 at 10:30am

It seems some posters are still missing my point  Thank you to those who do in fact address it

And thank you to the poster who shared how the scenes were staged in their HS production of Gypsy - that was exactly my point.

From what I understand in Guys and Dolls, the "strippers" there clearly are entertaining the characters in the play - NOT the actual audience.

Gypsy for HS needs to be staged such that it's clear she's entertaining an (unseen) burlesque crowd - NOT the real audience.

Understand, we're GOING to applaud at the end of the sequence showing her transition from clumsy and unsure to a huge confident star.  (In the example the poster here referenced, it seems the director even took THAT away, which I'd have to say perhaps goes TOO far - that's not necessary.

Please realize I'm referring to ONE particular HS production I saw (see my original post) where the 4th wall was broken - WE are now the burlesque house audience.  Further, in this case, the strip and (supposed) nudity behind the curtain is a major focus - and the illusion of nudity is never broken as we applaud.

For a HS play, I don't think that's appropriate.  If people disagree, I will accept that.  But understand I'm not objecting to the play itself for HS; nor am I objecting to somehow portraying (non-explicit) strip scenes.

I'm objecting to staging it such that the striptease is seemingly for OUR entertainment.  No different than I'd object to seeing a striptease as an act in HS talent show.

I'm sure it would be wrong to specify the exact YouTube clip I'm referring to.  As I also said, I later saw a couple others I have no objection to - since the directors seemed to recognize what I'm saying and staged it so that's avoided.

There is one in particular where she does in fact strip - but it's incidental and she's "revealed" behind the fans to not be nude before we applaud.  Comparing those two illustrates my point.