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SHUT DOWN SLAVE PLAY- Page 5

ArtMan
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joined:9/10/08
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Slave Play#101
Posted: 12/21/19 at 2:26pm

poisonivy2 said: "ArtMan said: "

I’ve been to Japan. They were remarkably polite and kind. But I’m not white.

I can't speak to how Japan is or isn't. But of course, they were polite to you, you are Asian American. At least that is what you have stated about yourself on your Facebook page.


"
im of Chinese descent. Japanese, Chinese and Koreans have huge ethnic conflicts and generally intermarriage to this day is rare.


Your statement just supported everyone's response.  History, especially through wars among themselves, have proved that the Japanese, Chinese and Koreans are racist towards each other.  White people have nothing to do with their centuries old beliefs.

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poisonivy2
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Slave Play#102
Posted: 12/21/19 at 2:30pm

No that’s prejudice. That’s not racism bc we are all of the Mongoloid race. Racism is purely a societal construct to protect white people. 

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LuPita2
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Slave Play#103
Posted: 12/21/19 at 2:30pm

ModernMillie3 said: "The point is that I/we (white people) have to acknowledge the history of oppression that was perpetuated by people who look like us against anyone who doesn’t and the system and ideology built around that. Prejudice, not racism, sums up simply not liking someone because they’re black/white/latinx/whatever pisses you off or is perceived as different from your “norm”.

Basically racism = prejudice + systemic inequality
"

This brown American millennial agrees, thank you! heart

 

Impossible2
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Slave Play#104
Posted: 12/21/19 at 2:31pm
omg
ArtMan
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joined:9/10/08
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Slave Play#105
Posted: 12/21/19 at 2:34pm

prejudice...racism..... tomato....to mat toe.  I'm going to sleep now.

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hork
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joined:6/28/15
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Slave Play#106
Posted: 12/21/19 at 2:37pm

ModernMillie3 said: "That's not what racism is. That's just a new definition of the word that someone just made up in the '70s. But that's not how words work. You can't just decide on your own what they mean.

Um, since it's my opinion and that's exactly how I defineracism, pretty sure I can decide on whatever I want, feel free to do that as well. I'm not going to take crap regarding my take on this. Anyone who doesn't get that being white is a huge advantage worldwide is beyond delusional. Thanks so much, though!
"

Worldwide? No. In certain countries? Of course it is. But call it systemic oppression. Why apply your own narrow definition to a word that already exists and has a broader meaning? I’m not giving you crap, just being protective of language and meaning because they’re important to me. 

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ModernMillie3
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Slave Play#107
Posted: 12/21/19 at 2:44pm

I will retract "worldwide" and just say North America, since that is my experience. I understand and respect your point of view. Obviously this is a very sensitive subject.

But.....is anybody going to shut down Slave Play? They've only got a few more weeks!!! Slave Play

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poisonivy2
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Slave Play#108
Posted: 12/21/19 at 2:47pm

hork said: "ModernMillie3 said: "That's not what racism is. That's just a new definition of the word that someone just made up in the '70s. But that's not how words work. You can't just decide on your own what they mean.

Um, since it's my opinion and that's exactly how I defineracism, pretty sure I can decide on whatever I want, feel free to do that as well. I'm not going to take crap regarding my take on this. Anyone who doesn't get that being white is a huge advantage worldwide is beyond delusional. Thanks so much, though!
"

Worldwide? No. In certain countries? Of course it is. But call it systemic oppression. Why apply your own narrow definition to a word that already exists and has a broader meaning? I’m not giving you crap, just being protective of language and meaning because they’re important to me.
"

The worldwide bias for light skin tone applies for every country and ethnicity. The systemic oppression against darker skin occurs in every society:

https://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/19/opinion/19vedantam.html

https://abcnews.go.com/images/Politics/Colorism_JASP_Article.pdf

Therefore it is natural that the absence of color (whiteness) is thought of as a free ride through life. White people never experience discrimination or prejudice. They were never told to go to the back of the bus. They aren't asked to leave Starbucks for buying a latte and aren't shot to death in their own homes for "being home while black." The sickening thing is when white people don't realize that they have this free ride through life that people of other races do not experience.

Therefore you cannot be racist against white people bc whiteness is the race to which all other races are measured and considered inferior by political systems and ruling classes. So therefore there is no such thing as racism against white people. 

Race is the first, last and only thing people notice about other people most of the time. That's the cold harsh truth.

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TotallyEffed
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Slave Play#109
Posted: 12/21/19 at 2:51pm
You have a very limited view of the world.
ArtMan
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Slave Play#110
Posted: 12/21/19 at 4:18pm

poisonivy said"



Therefore it is natural that the absence of color (whiteness) is thought of as a free ride through life. White people never experience discrimination or prejudice. They were never told to go to the back of the bus. They aren't asked to leave Starbucks for buying a latte and aren't shot to death in their own homes for "being home while black." The sickening thing is when white people don't realize that they have this free ride through life that people of other races do not experience.

Therefore you cannot be racist against white people bc whiteness is the race to which all other races are measured and considered inferior by political systems and ruling classes. So therefore there is no such thing as racism against white people.

Race is the first, last and only thing people notice about other people most of the time. That's the cold harsh truth.
"

My neighbor woke me up....so I will respond.  You speak in such generalizations.  You are older, so you should know better.  My great uncle, who is WHITE, was hung by the Ku Klux Klan in 1943.  When you say "white people never experience discrimination or prejudice" is not only wrong, but dumb.  For what ever reason, you have been carrying this chip on your shoulder since you became a member, and more than likely way before.  You are in the constantly growing group of people who blame others for the bad choices you have made in life.  Then blame it on others being racist towards you.

Updated On: 12/21/19 at 04:18 PM
Impossible2
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joined:3/31/18
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Slave Play#111
Posted: 12/21/19 at 4:19pm

poisonivy2 said: "hork said: "ModernMillie3 said: "That's not what racism is. That's just a new definition of the word that someone just made up in the '70s. But that's not how words work. You can't just decide on your own what they mean.

Um, since it's my opinion and that's exactly how I defineracism, pretty sure I can decide on whatever I want, feel free to do that as well. I'm not going to take crap regarding my take on this. Anyone who doesn't get that being white is a huge advantage worldwide is beyond delusional. Thanks so much, though!
"

Worldwide? No. In certain countries? Of course it is. But call it systemic oppression. Why apply your own narrow definition to a word that already exists and has a broader meaning? I’m not giving you crap, just being protective of language and meaning because they’re important to me.
"

The worldwide bias for light skin tone applies for every country and ethnicity. The systemic oppression against darker skin occurs in every society:

https://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/19/opinion/19vedantam.html

https://abcnews.go.com/images/Politics/Colorism_JASP_Article.pdf

Therefore it is natural that the absence of color (whiteness) is thought of as a free ride through life. White people never experience discrimination or prejudice. They were never told to go to the back of the bus. They aren't asked to leave Starbucks for buying a latte and aren't shot to death in their own homes for "being home while black." The sickening thing is when white people don't realize that they have this free ride through life that people of other races do not experience.

Therefore you cannot be racist against white people bc whiteness is the race to which all other races are measured and considered inferior by political systems and ruling classes. So therefore there is no such thing as racism against white people.

Race is the first, last and only thing people notice about other people most of the time. That's the cold harsh truth.
"

It sounds very much like you are projecting your own prejudices onto others.

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poisonivy2
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Slave Play#112
Posted: 12/21/19 at 4:32pm

ArtMan said: "poisonivy said"



Therefore it is natural that the absence of color (whiteness) is thought of as a free ride through life. White people never experience discrimination or prejudice. They were never told to go to the back of the bus. They aren't asked to leave Starbucks for buying a latte and aren't shot to death in their own homes for "being home while black." The sickening thing is when white people don't realize that they have this free ride through life that people of other races do not experience.

Therefore you cannot be racist against white people bc whiteness is the race to which all other races are measured and considered inferior by political systems and ruling classes. So therefore there is no such thing as racism against white people.

Race is the first, last and only thing people notice about other people most of the time. That's the cold harsh truth.
"

My neighbor woke me up....so I will respond. You speak in such generalizations. You are older, so you should know better. My great uncle, who is WHITE, was hung by the Ku Klux Klan in 1943. When you say "white people never experience discrimination or prejudice" is not only wrong, but dumb. For what ever reason, you have been carrying this chip on your shoulder since you became a member, and more than likely way before. You are in the constantly growing group of people who blame others for the bad choices you have made in life. Then blame it on others being racist towards you.
"

Excuse me? I never said I was the victim of racism. I was blessed to get a good education, a well-paying job, and I don’t blame anyone for anything that’s happened in my life. I’m doing well enough to be completely debt free with enough left over so if I lose my job tomorrow it’s not the end of the world. 

but thanks for whitesplaining that you think my life must be awful bc I made “poor choices” bc that’s exhibit A of institutional racism. Trayvon Martin must have been shot bc he made “poor choices.” Tame Rice a 12 year old boy must have been shot bc he made “poor choices.” Meanwhile Dylann Roof of the El Paso shooter were “mentally ill.” 
 

did you assume I was poor and down and out bc I’m not white? That’s white privilege right there. 

Updated On: 12/21/19 at 04:32 PM
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haterobics
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Slave Play#113
Posted: 12/21/19 at 4:46pm

poisonivy2 said: "The worldwide bias for light skin tone applies for every country and ethnicity."

Until you get down to the albino level, then we all tap out.

ArtMan
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joined:9/10/08
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Slave Play#114
Posted: 12/21/19 at 5:12pm

poisonivy2 said: "ArtMan said: "poisonivy said"



Therefore it is natural that the absence of color (whiteness) is thought of as a free ride through life. White people never experience discrimination or prejudice. They were never told to go to the back of the bus. They aren't asked to leave Starbucks for buying a latte and aren't shot to death in their own homes for "being home while black." The sickening thing is when white people don't realize that they have this free ride through life that people of other races do not experience.

Therefore you cannot be racist against white people bc whiteness is the race to which all other races are measured and considered inferior by political systems and ruling classes. So therefore there is no such thing as racism against white people.

Race is the first, last and only thing people notice about other people most of the time. That's the cold harsh truth.
"

My neighbor woke me up....so I will respond. You speak in such generalizations. You are older, so you should know better. My great uncle, who is WHITE, was hung by the Ku Klux Klan in 1943. When you say "white people never experience discrimination or prejudice" is not only wrong, but dumb. For what ever reason, you have been carrying this chip on your shoulder since you became a member, and more than likely way before. You are in the constantly growing group of people who blame others for the bad choices you have made in life. Then blame it on others being racist towards you.
"

Excuse me? I never said I was the victim of racism. I was blessed to get a good education, a well-paying job, and I don’t blame anyone for anything that’s happened in my life. I’m doing well enough to be completely debt free with enough left over so if I lose my job tomorrow it’s not the end of the world.

but thanks for whitesplaining that you think my life must be awful bc I made “poor choices” bc that’s exhibit A of institutionalracism. Trayvon Martin must have been shot bc he made “poor choices.” Tame Rice a 12 year old boy must have been shot bc he made “poor choices.” Meanwhile Dylann Roofof the El Paso shooter were “mentally ill.”


did you assume I was poor and down and out bc I’m not white? That’s white privilege right there.
"

Never, ever, said in my post that you were poor and down and out.  Point it out to me then.  I said you have a chip on your shoulder and seem to blame others for whatever has gone on in your life.  The argument you have been stating today has been on rewind since 2016.  This is probably the tenth thread that you have stated your hangups on the white devil.  Go sting someone else.  I'm going to watch Christley Knows Best.

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poisonivy2
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joined:1/3/16
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Slave Play#115
Posted: 12/21/19 at 6:01pm

ArtMan said: "poisonivy2 said: "ArtMan said: "poisonivy said"

Never, ever, said in my post that you were poor and down and out. Point it out to me then. I said you have a chip on your shoulder and seem to blame others for whatever has gone on in your life. The argument you have been stating today has been on rewind since 2016. This is probably the tenth thread that you have stated your hangups on the white devil. Go sting someone else. I'm going to watch Christley Knows Best.
"

And I will continue to beat this drum as long as things like this happen:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/21/us/Nicole-Marie-Poole-Franklin-Des-Moines.html

The day these things don't happen is the day white people get to whine about racism towards white people. Which is never. Because systemic white oppression of minorities will always happen and will never change.

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hork
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joined:6/28/15
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Slave Play#116
Posted: 12/21/19 at 6:01pm

poisonivy2 said: "hork said: "ModernMillie3 said: "That's not what racism is. That's just a new definition of the word that someone just made up in the '70s. But that's not how words work. You can't just decide on your own what they mean.

Um, since it's my opinion and that's exactly how I defineracism, pretty sure I can decide on whatever I want, feel free to do that as well. I'm not going to take crap regarding my take on this. Anyone who doesn't get that being white is a huge advantage worldwide is beyond delusional. Thanks so much, though!
"

Worldwide? No. In certain countries? Of course it is. But call it systemic oppression. Why apply your own narrow definition to a word that already exists and has a broader meaning? I’m not giving you crap, just being protective of language and meaning because they’re important to me.
"

The worldwide bias for light skin tone applies for every country and ethnicity. The systemic oppression against darker skin occurs in every society:

https://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/19/opinion/19vedantam.html

https://abcnews.go.com/images/Politics/Colorism_JASP_Article.pdf

Therefore it is natural that the absence of color (whiteness) is thought of as a free ride through life. White people never experience discrimination or prejudice. They were never told to go to the back of the bus. They aren't asked to leave Starbucks for buying a latte and aren't shot to death in their own homes for "being home while black." The sickening thing is when white people don't realize that they have this free ride through life that people of other races do not experience.

Therefore you cannot be racist against white people bc whiteness is the race to which all other races are measured and considered inferior by political systems and ruling classes. So therefore there is no such thing as racism against white people.

Race is the first, last and only thing people notice about other people most of the time. That's the cold harsh truth.
"

Those two articles you linked to are about the U.S. only. Does every culture in the world have a prejudice against darker skin? Don’t know. I haven’t been to most countries or done research on the subject (although, as someone who grew up being afraid to wear shorts or take his shirt off in front of others, I can tell you that being “too white” is definitely a thing in our culture ... which is why tanning is such an obsession despite the damage it does to your skin). But it doesn’t matter, because that’s a very different thing than saying white people (i.e. people of European descent) have an advantage everywhere in the world. I fail to see how being white would be an advantage in, say, Japan. Heck, there are places in the world where being white can get you killed. 

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poisonivy2
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Slave Play#117
Posted: 12/21/19 at 6:11pm

hork said: "

Those two articles you linked to are about the U.S. only. Does every culture in the world have a prejudice against darker skin? Don’t know. I haven’t been to most countries or done research on the subject (although, as someone who grew up being afraid to wear shorts or take his shirt off in front of others, I can tell you that being “too white” is definitely a thing in our culture ... which is why tanning is such an obsession despite the damage it does to your skin).But it doesn’t matter, because that’s a very different thing than saying white people (i.e. people of European descent) have an advantage everywhere in the world. I fail to see how being white would be an advantage in, say, Japan. Heck, there are places in the world where being white can get you killed."


Considering the multi-billion dollar industry of skin bleaching and skin whitening that occurs in all cultures, yes, white skin is a universally desired trait.

https://www.theguardian.com/inequality/2017/sep/04/dark-is-beautiful-battle-to-end-worlds-obsession-with-lighter-skin

This even extends to dogs. Black puppies are less likely to be adopted:

https://www.petfinder.com/pet-adoption/dog-adoption/black-dog-syndrome/

There's even a name for this. It's called "Black Dog Syndrome."

So yes, let me repeat: RACE IS THE FIRST, LAST AND ONLY THING PEOPLE NOTICE ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE. To think otherwise is naive.

Updated On: 12/21/19 at 06:11 PM
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hork
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Slave Play#118
Posted: 12/21/19 at 6:17pm
Is that like the antithesis of “I don’t see color”? “I only see color.” Equally ridiculous.
BWAY Baby2
Broadway Star
joined:11/10/14
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Slave Play#119
Posted: 12/22/19 at 4:30am

We live in a complicated world- culture- society. I think- if hating white people seems to be what you want to do and you seem justified- have at it. If hating black people seems justified and that is what you want to do- have at it, For me, I do not want to judge anyone by the color of their skin- or their religion- or their sexual orientation- be it straight, gay, etc-- no matter how anyone classifies themselves in terms of gender- I just do not see the world in those terms- and I try to accept people as they are- and I do not choose to associate, when I can make that choice, with people who I consider hateful or racist- that is me, Poisonivy2- go your own way- I do not approve or like the hateful rhetoric and way of thinking you support- and you do not agree with me- so go your own hateful and low consciousness way- and btw- poisonivy2- if you are a man- do you think it is justified for women to hate and resent you because you yourself are in a position of power?

Updated On: 12/22/19 at 04:30 AM
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poisonivy2
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Slave Play#120
Posted: 12/22/19 at 10:22am

BWAY Baby2 said: "We live in a complicated world- culture- society. I think- if hating white people seems to be what you want to do and you seem justified- have at it. If hating black people seems justified and that is what you want to do- have at it, For me, I do not want to judge anyone by the color of their skin- or their religion- or their sexual orientation- be it straight, gay, etc-- no matter how anyone classifies themselves in terms of gender- I just do not see the world in those terms- and I try to accept people as they are- and I do not choose to associate, when I can make that choice, with people who I consider hateful or racist- that is me, Poisonivy2- go your own way- I do not approve or like the hateful rhetoric and way of thinking you support- and you do not agree with me- so go your own hateful and low consciousness way- and btw- poisonivy2- if you are a man- do you think it is justified for women to hate and resent you because you yourself are in a position of power?"

First of all I'm a woman. And if a man is using his XY chromosomes to abuse and harass women it's absolutely fine for me to hate him for his abuse of power. 

But I see we've gotten to the straw man part of the argument, where white people are so determined to convince themselves that there is indeed racism against white people that they say "but I need to get tan!!!!" As if getting a tan were anything close to the systematic racism and oppression inflicted upon POC by white people ...

Seriously board. Have you guys heard of Emmitt Till? George Stinney? Atatiana Jefferson? Tamir Rice? Botham Jean? 

Updated On: 12/22/19 at 10:22 AM
BWAY Baby2
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Slave Play#121
Posted: 12/22/19 at 11:08am

Justify your hate of white people all you want- I am now officially out of this conversation.

Rainah
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Slave Play#122
Posted: 12/22/19 at 11:11am

hork said: "Those two articles you linked to are about the U.S. only. Does every culture in the world have a prejudice against darker skin?"

I can't speak for every country, but in short

Racism looks different in different countries, as different countries have different racial histories and even different conceptions of race. I'll toss out two examples; Canada has a very contentious history with indigenous peoples, and there is a ton of racism directed towards them. I also think of a friend who is a second generation Chinese immigrant, who told me stories about how when he dated a Vietnamese girl, his extended family was very unhappy because of her race and felt she was not 'good enough' for him. (Thankfully his immediate family was happy for him). Or look at different conceptions of whiteness in Europe vs the USA historically, especially eastern europe. 

For Japan I'll refer you to the Japanese themselves: https://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/2018/06/03/commentary/japan-commentary/face-reality-racism-japan/
"Japanese have an implicit bias against blacks, concluding that “Japanese participants showed an implicit preference for ‘white people’ over ‘black people.’ ”

 

That being said, the USA is a dominant force in the world at large. I don't live in the USA, but most of my media comes from the USA. The songs I listen to, the movies I watch, the books I read. That affects you. Google "the danger of a single story" for an incredible example of that.

In addition, the USA (and other western countries, but really, the USA) deliberately meddles with politics in other countries, including racial politics. Look at Apartheid in South Africa

Racism looks different in other countries sometimes, but there is still racism, and the united states has such a disproportionate affect on other countries at this point in time that I think an analysis of race in the USA will always be relevant.

 

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hork
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Slave Play#123
Posted: 12/22/19 at 12:06pm

poisonivy2 said: "BWAY Baby2 said: "We live in a complicated world- culture- society. I think- if hating white people seems to be what you want to do and you seem justified- have at it. If hating black people seems justified and that is what you want to do- have at it, For me, I do not want to judge anyone by the color of their skin- or their religion- or their sexual orientation- be it straight, gay, etc-- no matter how anyone classifies themselves in terms of gender- I just do not see the world in those terms- and I try to accept people as they are- and I do not choose to associate, when I can make that choice, with people who I consider hateful or racist- that is me, Poisonivy2- go your own way- I do not approve or like the hateful rhetoric and way of thinking you support- and you do not agree with me- so go your own hateful and low consciousness way- and btw- poisonivy2- if you are a man- do you think it is justified for women to hate and resent you because you yourself are in a position of power?"

First of all I'm a woman. And if a man is using his XY chromosomes to abuse and harass women it's absolutely fine for me to hate him for his abuse of power.

But I see we've gotten to the straw man part of the argument, where white people are so determined to convince themselves that there is indeed racism against white people that they say "but I need to get tan!!!!" As if getting a tan were anything close to the systematic racism and oppression inflicted upon POC by white people ...

Seriously board. Have you guys heard of Emmitt Till? George Stinney? Atatiana Jefferson? Tamir Rice? Botham Jean?
"

I like that you say we've gotten to the straw man part of the argument and then immediately launch into a straw man argument. So, yes, you're right, we've gotten to the straw man part of the argument.

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Slave Play#124
Posted: 12/22/19 at 1:02pm
Proud of you PoisonIvy, fighting racism with racism. So brave.
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dramamama611
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Slave Play#125
Posted: 12/22/19 at 1:12pm

Ill be at the 3 o'clock show, maybe we can talk about the show afterwards.

 

Just picked up my TDF  ticket, orch  d114.

If we're not having fun, then why are we doing it? These are DISCUSSION boards, not mutual admiration boards. Discussion only occurs when we are willing to hear what others are thinking, regardless of whether it is alignment to our own thoughts.
Updated On: 12/22/19 at 01:12 PM