Tootsie controversy - Page 9

[SweetLips22]

Posted: 8/1/19 at 4:21pm

joevitus said: "TheBroadwayBubble said: "There was some controversy on social media this weekend over some of Tootsie's merchandise, specifically- that some thought it was offensive to the trans and gay community. Some of the merchandise has been taken down, but one shirt still remains up- the shirt says "Friend of Dorothy," and the other shirts/bags/stickers/pins all said "Being a woman is no job for a man." Thoughts everyone?"

HUGE sidebar, but I just want to point out that no gay man ever called himself or others a "Friend of Dorothy" as an out gay man (now 50), the only two times I've ever heard this phrase was from a(heterosexual) characterin Clueless and Milo Yiannopoulos. This is pseudo gay culture, folks."

I have been on cruise ships with the daily information sheets informing Friends of Dorothy meet tonight in the ??? at 6pm--better than Poofs at 6pm on A deck.

[NievesG]

Posted: 8/1/19 at 4:36pm

Well, I just went down a rabbit hole on this phrase and at the very least, there was an art piece at the 1987 Whitney Biennial titled "A Friend of Dorothy, 1943" (McDermott and McGough, 1986, Oil on linen, 193 x 167 cm). It was on display at Studio Voltaire in London this past February. Not anecdotal considering the subject matter so therefore the phrase was acknowledged and existed in art circles (at least) before 1993. I think you are focusing too much on the etymology of this phrase and the lack of academic sources before the 1990s. However, many have been written since the 1990s which are scholarly and suggest usage as far back as the mid 1940s.

Or, you can just ask older gay men who have offered their experience with the language. What's not to believe?

(edit: spelling)

Updated On: 8/1/19 at 04:36 PM

[bk]

Posted: 8/1/19 at 4:42pm

joevitus said: "It's anecdotal and you can't demonstrate you did, only that you heard it. Funny that no book anywhere from that time by and for gay men includes it.

Look, you clearly need to win this issue. So say something more, I won't respond and you can feel good about yourself. It seems more important to you (and others) than me."

You know, Joe, enough already.  It is not I who needs to win - I have nothing to win.  I and others have pointed you to many sources, some of us know when we first heard the expression - nothing is good enough for you.  Well, friend, that's your problem.  Good day.

[poisonivy2]

Posted: 8/1/19 at 4:57pm

I just came back from a cruise where the nightly LGBT get together was called “Friends of Dorothy.” I was on the Norwegian Cruise Line. 

[joevitus]

Posted: 8/1/19 at 6:02pm

Yeah, note the "I just came from" part. Doesn't have anything to do with what we're talking about. The phrase was used in Clueless--of course it's going to become part of gay culture now. That's not what I've been talking about.

Updated On: 8/1/19 at 06:02 PM

[Sho-Tunes-R-Us]

Posted: 8/2/19 at 4:40pm

joevitus said: "Yeah, note the "I just came from" part. Doesn't have anything to do with what we're talking about. The phrase was used in Clueless--of course it's going to become part of gay culture now.That's not what I've been talking about."

Since you refute the facts as presented in this matter may I suggest that you join the current administration and his followers in their mindset.  You might feel more comfortable amongst them than in this forum.

Updated On: 8/6/19 at 04:40 PM

[magictodo123]

Posted: 8/6/19 at 9:19am

I'm sorry to start this up again, and I hope I can civilly convey what I am trying to say. I understand that a lot of people have many issues with t his musical. But I've seen things on social media that make me so upset, and make me think that people against the show are NOT handling their frustration in the correct way. I've heard people wish horrible things upon actors involved, their family members (Santino Fontana's wife is pregnant, and apparently people have wished bad things upon her). I understand freedom of speech and all that, but this is one step too far. Predicting a closing based on numbers is one thing; gloating about it, and celebrating it is taking it way too far. People are downright cruel.  I understand that there are communities that are very, extremely offended and outspoken about the material and how it hurts their community, but honestly, with the out of town tryout, shouldn't people have been aware of what they were getting themselves into (as an audience member)? Couldn't they just avoid seeing the show and not say anything instead of wishing harmful things upon the cast, closings upon them, someone even told me that someone we both know wished Santino Fontana would get hit by one of the swinging lights in "Wait For Me" from Hadestown. Am I wrong in saying this is freedom of speech taken way too far? People have called it Transphobia the musical...I think people are just LOOKING to be upset by it. Am I wrong? 

[haterobics]

Posted: 8/6/19 at 9:37am

This thread has lasted longer than the actual controversy.

[magictodo123]

Posted: 8/6/19 at 9:41am

haterobics said: "This thread has lasted longer than the actual controversy."

Haterobics, I'm so sorry about that. I just didn't want to start a new thread regarding my frustration at how people have been expressing their feelings towards this show. I do apologize for dragging it out, but I felt I needed to say what I said above (...below?). I don't think the people who hate the show understand how cruel they're being. It's not okay.