SUNSET BOULEVARD Reviews- Page 3

[Scarywarhol]

Posted: 2/10/17 at 12:46pm

I mean, Jesse Green CAN disagree, as demonstrated by the articulate review that he proceeds to write.

[newintown]

Posted: 2/10/17 at 12:53pm

I agree with every word of Green's evaluation of the adaptation.

[10086sunset]

Posted: 2/10/17 at 12:55pm

Scarywarhol said: "I mean, Jesse Green CAN disagree, as demonstrated by the articulate review that he proceeds to write."

 

No one said he couldn't disagree. That said, I do not find Mr. Green's writing articulate. I find it cheap. 

Scarywarhol, it clear you don't like the show based on your continued posts. My question is why continue to post in these sunset threads simply to crap all over the show?

[10086sunset]

Posted: 2/10/17 at 12:57pm

newintown said: "I agree with every word of Green's evaluation of the adaptation."

 

Which is your right, newintown. As is my right to disagree with it.

[Scarywarhol]

Posted: 2/10/17 at 1:21pm

I actually did enjoy much about the production, including Close, as I wrote about in the main thread immediately after the first preview. I think it's a fascinating property. Sunset Boulevard is one of my favorite films of all time. The ways in which the show fails so uniquely as an adaptation are interesting to me. This is literally what a discussion board is for. 

[Scarywarhol]

Posted: 2/10/17 at 1:25pm

I love that Green makes the "Why not take the vicuna" scene the crux of his review, as I too have often felt like the relationship between the film and the show in that moment is a microcosm of the whole enterprise.

[10086sunset]

Posted: 2/10/17 at 1:29pm

Scarywarhol, my apologies if I came off as hostile or aggressive. Re-reading my post, I can see how it could be interpreted as such. I meant and continue to mean no ill will.

 

[newintown]

Posted: 2/10/17 at 1:31pm

10086sunset wrote "Which is your right, newintown. As is my right to disagree with it."

No one wrote otherwise, as far as I can see.

[Jimbob2]

Posted: 2/10/17 at 1:57pm

Here's one musician/composer NewInTown:

Australian Malcolm Williamson was Master of the Queen's Music from 1975 until his death in 2003. He tastelessly said Lloyd Webber's music is everywhere "but so is AIDS", and compared it to a cement mixer except "there is a degree of creativity in a cement mixer".  "At least his brother Julian can scratch the cello, although he does that badly".  He also disparaged their father William Lloyd Webber's compositions.

Some months later, after delivering the manuscript of his fourth piano concerto to the Savoy hotel, Williamson went into the nearby Adelphi Theatre to watch 'Sunset Boulevard'.  His reaction:

"Andrew has opened up the flesh of the mind...This music is immortal...It is technically musically marvelous...It also has spiritual and philosophical depth to it".

ALW who hadn't reacted to the original comments finally said:

"It's wonderful when another musician enjoys your work.  My father introduced me to Malcolm's liturgical work when I was a boy and I always admired him a lot - it hurt me to be so criticised by him".

For myself, I find plenty of sophistication in this particular score that knocks many others (that go un-critiqued) out of the park.  That's my personal taste though; and I've got enough musical knowledge to appreciate it without going as overboard as Malcolm Williamson eventually did.

 

[newintown]

Posted: 2/10/17 at 2:01pm

Well, there you go; I suppose that's incontrovertible proof that Lloyd Webber's music is actually brilliant. Who knew?

[kdogg36]

Posted: 2/10/17 at 2:47pm

newintown said: "But I wonder if this is how we have finally acquired an amoral vulgarian as President; because so much of our populace is sufficiently complacent to claim, "I know enough, I need not learn any more.""

I don't know if I can quite throw the "logical fallacy" accusation back at you, but just to make this tentative connection requires an enormous leap of logic. Have theatergoers ever possessed an extensive amount of technical knowledge, or been expected to possess such knowledge to enjoy a musical? Has anything changed or developed in this respect? If anything, the scope of musical theater seems to have become richer and more sophisticated over the years, with works like Fun Home and Hamilton achieving critical and popular success. I know that's a different kind of sophistication (thematic, not musical), but it definitely casts doubt on any claim that theater audiences have become lazier, less motivated to improve themselves, or whatever it is you're claiming.

 

[kdogg36]

Posted: 2/10/17 at 2:49pm

newintown said: "I do have to say that I don't know any musically knowledgeable people (including musicians and composers) who think that his work is better than elementary. "

I gather you don't know Michael Walsh, but he clearly takes ALW's music quite seriously, as is obvious from his critical biography of the composer (which is in desperate need of an update). I know Walsh is kind of a trashy conservative columnist these days, but he used to be a professional music critic and is certainly musically knowledgeable.

 

Updated On: 2/10/17 at 02:49 PM

[newintown]

Posted: 2/10/17 at 2:56pm

"Have theatergoers ever possessed an extensive amount of technical knowledge, or been expected to possess such knowledge to enjoy a musical?"

I think that's a great question, kdogg,  but much more specific than the cultural accusation I was working on, which is a broader point about intellectual complacency. We all are aware (or at least the evidence is easily found) of a time not that long ago when what was called a "good education" included a more rigorous approach to the arts, like learning to read music, play an instrument, and understand (to a degree) musical construction.

I won't speak of Hamilton here, as that's a conversation that could fill several threads; but to use Fun Home as an indicator of heightened intellectual/aesthetic awareness among the masses might be mistaken, as that show wasn't really "popular" (just in terms of numbers of attendees and dollars earned) but was more of a prestige success.

I certainly can't take credit for the theory of the dumbing down of America, but there are few enlightened minds who dispute it.

Updated On: 2/10/17 at 02:56 PM

[newintown]

Posted: 2/10/17 at 3:02pm

"I gather you don't know Michael Walsh..."

No, I don't, except for his right wing National Review and Breitbart stuff. I see he graduated from Eastman, so he clearly does have a music education. That said, there are exceptions to every rule, aren't there? (I can't imagine seeking out his music writing, as I deplore his political thinking so much.)

I also mentioned composers and musicians; the opinions of music reviewers aren't, I confess, of that much interest to me. Like most arts writers, they tend, generally, to regard themselves as experts on that which they cannot do themselves (but wish they could). It's pretty rare that any cultural reviewer writes anything that strikes me as particularly insightful.

[kdogg36]

Posted: 2/10/17 at 3:04pm

newintown, thanks for addressing my comments without defensiveness! I do enjoy reading your posts here.

[newintown]

Posted: 2/10/17 at 3:08pm

It's mutual, kdogg. You are a model of sobriety and civility!

[Jimbob2]

Posted: 2/10/17 at 4:22pm

Certainly not incontrovertible proof of anything, just an anecdote re the changing viewpoint of a composer.  Nice talking to you.

[chernjam]

Posted: 2/10/17 at 4:48pm

10086sunset said: "
No one said he couldn't disagree. That said, I do not find Mr. Green's writing articulate. I find it cheap. 
"

Nail on the head 10086sunset...  I read that and said to myself - there's always at least one who wants to be so contradictory if for no other reason than to be "unique"

[Ado Annie D'Ysquith]

Posted: 2/10/17 at 4:53pm

I'm starting to think Sunset Blvd is the ultimate cult show- perhaps up there with the likes of Rocky Horror. It gets polarizing reviews and almost always loses a lot of money when staged professionally- and yet it keeps coming back more sensationally than the last time!

[chernjam]

Posted: 2/10/17 at 4:53pm

kdogg36 said: "I gather you don't know Michael Walsh, but he clearly takes ALW's music quite seriously, as is obvious from his critical biography of the composer (which is in desperate need of an update). I know Walsh is kind of a trashy conservative columnist these days, but he used to be a professional music critic and is certainly musically knowledgeable.

 "

Kdogg- thanks for highlighting this... Walsh's bio was certainly one of the more in depth, critical and had tons of behind the scenes info that made it a fascinating read.  I had gotten the last revision which I had hoped he would have gone in depth on all the behind the scenes chaos of the Patti-Glenn- Faye- drama - as well as WDTW with Prince/etc - as he had done with some of ALW's other shows.  There's a lot more stories to be told that are always interesting to hear about - not to mention clear up some false stories and rumors (one of which I read was that the original broadway production of Sunset "lost $20million" - which the NY Times when Sunset closed reprorted had recouped 85-90% of its investment - so again - don't know who to believe)

I would really welcome his takes on things - well at least ALW related :) 

 

[chernjam]

Posted: 2/10/17 at 5:59pm

Ado Annie D'Ysquith said: "I'm starting to think Sunset Blvd is the ultimate cult show- perhaps up there with the likes of Rocky Horror. It gets polarizing reviews and almost always loses a lot of money when staged professionally- and yet it keeps coming back more sensationally than the last time!"

Hahaha - Ado - I don't know if it's THAT polarizing or cultish!  

[Phantom of London]

Posted: 2/10/17 at 5:59pm

The same Lloyd Webber bashers join the line every time. The seem to be kind of bitter about something, maybe that the popular opinion goes and buys tickets to his show. Despite a sustained hatchet show by the New York Times.

As Jesse Green I am sure he has moved up in peoples' estimations now, after that one of a kind review, it must feel great to be second bottom at last. Who are Vulture.com anyway, I think the .com is a bit of a clue.

[Scarywarhol]

Posted: 2/10/17 at 6:32pm

Checked my playbill. "I Had To Get Out" is listed as a number in the bizarre song list, if anyone cares to know. Even "Auld Lang Syne" is later in the scene. 

 

And disagree with Green's review if you want. ( I DO disagree with his evaluation of Close, among other things.) But there's nothing arbitrary or bitter about it, it's a very cogent analysis of this show.

Updated On: 2/10/17 at 06:32 PM

[Felm_heart]

Posted: 2/10/17 at 7:20pm

^ Vulture is New York Magazine's entertainment wing. He is the theatre critic for New York Magazine. I agree that the review is harsh, but he certainly provides reasons for why he makes certain statements. I'm looking forward to seeing the show in April to make up my own mind.

[Zamedy154]

Posted: 2/10/17 at 9:45pm

Could we see a Close vs. Midler for Best Actress in a Musicak this year?