The Heckler: Why I'm allergic to Stephen Sondheim- Page 11

[Liza's Headband]

Posted: 3/23/15 at 9:56pm

Circular doesn't even begin to describe it, but yes... When you are arguing about art, which is a subjective medium, there are the people who like or love it, the people who dislike or hate it, and the people who do not care.

You will not change someone's opinion on a subjective art form, and you're not really supposed to. That is the beauty of art. I see a spattering of colors, you see a masterpiece. I hear something I might consider 'brilliant,' and you hear that same thing as garbage.

Why do we have to "argue for" anyone or anything? Why can't there be fans and detractors and neutral onlookers? It is healthy to have differing opinions and to be exposed to perspectives that clash with yours. This, my friends, is the beauty of the world.

So... to everyone ... Let me recommend halting this circular debate. Save yourself the time and energy. Go expend it on something else. You love Sondheim? Great. Someone else hating Sondheim doesn't discount your love for his work and shouldn't threaten that. If it does, that says much more about you then the person challenging your personal preferences and joys.

The End.

[ljay889]

Posted: 3/23/15 at 10:03pm

6 Tony Awards
Tony for Lifetime Achievement
15 Drama Desk Awards
Oscar for Best Original Song
Grammy for Song of the Year
Pulitzer Prize
Kennedy Center Honor
Presidential Medal of Freedom

That's really all that needs to be said.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 3/23/15 at 10:12pm

Plus he got a sex dungeon.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 3/23/15 at 10:15pm

Wait. Art is "a medium"? Huh.

Updated On: 3/23/15 at 10:15 PM

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 3/23/15 at 10:19pm

Je suis Follies

[Kad]

Posted: 3/23/15 at 10:38pm

"I mean, it's not like there are serious problems happening out there in the real world or anything... "

He's right. As members of a Broadway message board, we should devote ourselves to solving the problems of the world. Nose goes on Israel.

Updated On: 3/23/15 at 10:38 PM

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 3/23/15 at 10:44pm

Plus ça change!

[Liza's Headband]

Posted: 3/23/15 at 11:03pm

Kad. Clearly the priority should definitely be placed on arguing over a composer and the anonymous message board users who do not like him.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 3/23/15 at 11:06pm

Le case closed!

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 3/23/15 at 11:07pm

Phillypinto is actually Ban Ki-moon, fyi.

[Kad]

Posted: 3/23/15 at 11:08pm

It's a Broadway message board!

For someone who once *erroneously* thought they tracked down another user's identity and began alluding to it with all the subtlety of a tornado, it's amazing you've managed to climb onto a high horse about a circular argument about a composer.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 4/9/15 at 1:19pm

I just stumbled across this thread and it is definitely one of the most entertaining this board has seen in years.  I've learned so many things from it...

Sondheim melodies are actually very simple and easy to sing, yet they come out of the blue, which is why singers have so much trouble memorizing them.

Sondheim songs are repetitive and filled with one-liners, unlike the barometer for musical theatre scores, Miss Saigon, which contains the crowd-pleaser The American Dream.  No repetition or one-liners to be found it that expertly crafted tune.

Sondheim songs are devoid of emotional revelations unlike all the other songs in musical theatre.  And the songs that actually have emotional (or intellectual) journeys or revelations are faulty for some other reason.

Apparently, a melody can be far-fetched.  It's just something you know when you hear it, but it cannot be explained or defined.  Which is a terrible thing in supporting Sondheim, but not when criticizing Sondheim.  Oh, you know what I mean.

Popular songs are those recognized by certain young people today.  The ones who have seen the film version of Dreamgirls and watch Glee.  The official focus group of America.

Sunday is a song with lyrics and a melody that remain completely static and go nowhere.  There is no build and nothing happens.  Everyone is exactly the same at the beginning of the song as at the end.  Context has no place in musical theatre criticism.  

"A song played on a solo saxophone.  A crazy sound.  A lonely sound.  A cry that tells us love goes on and on.  Played on a solo saxophone." is the standard to which Sondheim should aspire.

I know things now that I didn't realize before.  But that is not an emotional or intellectual journey.  It's just a one-liner.  I mean, it's not and there is a journey leading to a revelation, but it sounds like Sondheim, so it's not what it is because I need to assert a conviction no matter what.

But the real acme of the thread is:

So... to everyone ... Let me recommend halting this circular debate. Save yourself the time and energy. Go expend it on something else.

Not because it contains words of wisdom, but it's the underlying do-as-I-say-not-as-I-do hypocrisy that makes it so gosh-darn funny.  I'm sure we can look to this individual's posts as examples of time well-spent.

Updated On: 4/10/15 at 01:19 PM

[gypsy101]

Posted: 4/10/15 at 2:17am

I'm willing to bet no one reputable would list Miss Saigon among the best scores of musical theater. To do so would be foolish. That nonsense about the saxophone could never approach something like "You said you love me, or were you just being kind? Or am I losing my mind?"

[themysteriousgrowl]

Posted: 4/10/15 at 7:44am

 

Matt, you deserve 100 of these for that post.

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 4/10/15 at 8:10am

I have no desire to wade into the Sondheim argument (mostly because I think people who denigrate EVERYTHING the man writes are liars), but could we set aside the notion that art is MERELY subjective? It is not true.

The appreciation of art may have subjective aspects, but every work of art is constructed out of cultural conventions, and whether the piece succeeds or not depends in large part on whether those conventions have been skillfully employed (or so skillfully rejected that new conventions have been installed instead).

Aristotle wrote a book on this. So did Hammerstein and, more recently, Sondheim offered a couple of his own.

COMMERCIAL theater (especially in New York) is a unique case because of cost (as has been discussed elsewhere): it has to be so wildly successful that patrons run home and call everyone they know to DEMAND those acquaintances buy tickets. So, in the case of commercial theater, SUBJECTIVE approval is beside the point; to succeed, a play or musical must achieve nearly UNIVERSAL approval!