Is a white person playing a role "of color"* considered racist?- Page 6

[Kad]

Posted: 12/2/12 at 9:00pm

Gaveston, I actually don't think we really disagree. We need to make distinct ignorance v. racism. I don't think not knowing which label a group prefers is racism/bigotry. I think the use of stereotypes and racial slurs is racism/bigotry. I don't think denying a role to a person of color because they were not better than a rival white actor is racism. I think choosing a white actor over an equal colored actor because "it's more commercial" or something is born of racism.

At this point in America, most people know what are slurs and stereotypes. Being ignorant is no longer a aufficient excuse for that. ...I don't know about China.

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 12/2/12 at 9:16pm

Absolutely, Kad. I think you, Phyllis, Taryn and I are all discussing this subject from the same side. I hope that is clear to all involved.

And I'm certainly not saying ignorance is "okay": you and Taryn are correct that it is the root from which hate-crime trees grow. I fear sometimes, however, that we may create a world in which we don't get a chance to correct ignorance because everyone is too afraid to speak his or her mind. (This is NOT a reference to anyone in this thread.) But now that I have written the above, I feel foolish: the last two presidential campaigns prove people are all too willing to spew the most obnoxious nonsense.

But as for a hypothetical director who always casts white men to play dentists, I don't think it's helpful to call him a racist (nor would any of us here do so). I think we're better off if somebody is around to say, "Good actor. But wouldn't it be interesting if the dentist were a half-black, half-Korean, wheel-chair-enabled transgendered woman?"

[Kad]

Posted: 12/2/12 at 9:29pm

I think that decision (casting white men as dentists) is could be argued as subtly racist, though. It's born from a belief that "No, black men/etc. can't make good doctors." An antiquated belief that has just been passed down and become part of a mindset. I realize this makes things difficult- even hopelessly so- because racism is in part passed along without being aware of it. That's where my tree metaphor fails me. This getting into the real theory stuff, the stuff that drives queer theory and post colonialism. But then, viewing things through those lenses and theories makes things very, very difficult and leads to no solutions and more problems.

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 12/2/12 at 9:56pm

True story, Kad: I was referred to a white, male dentist in Marina Del Rey in the early 1990s and was very pleased with him. But then I showed up for an appointment and discovered the practice had switched me to a partner-dentist who was Chinese-American.

Well, I wasn't entirely happy about having no say in the decision, but of course I couldn't complain. You can see why. And so I saw Dr. Chang for a year and was very happy with him and his work.

And then I showed up (I was having a lot of work done) to discover I had been reassigned to a white, female dentist. Again, I couldn't possibly object. And she was great (women's hands tend to be smaller) until she moved to Iowa.

At which time I was transferred to another white male. And then I switched to a one-dentist office where I wouldn't be passed around like a sack of potatoes. (FTR, the dentist I chose was Asian-American and brilliant. If you ever need a referral, let me know.)

Such are the trials of being a liberal, I suppose, but all the dentists involved were highly qualified. LOL.

***

Back on topic: casting a white man as a dentist MIGHT be born of a belief that women and people of color aren't as qualified to be dentists, but I think it's more likely just a product of what the casting director has seen.

In evolutionary terms, I think we had to be conditioned toward stereotyping in order to survive as a species. Antelope=good to eat! Sabre-tooth tiger=more likely to eat you! Of course, this is not an excuse for laziness today, when we ought to know better than to make assumptions about people based on superficial appearances. But the evolutionary impulse remains.

Of course, the assumption is still based on seeing race first and the individual second, which is why I sometimes wish our language were more specific. "Racist" has become one of the worst words in American English, and rightfully so! But I don't want to trivialize it because my grandmother hasn't learned to say "African-American" rather than "Afro-American" (facetious example).

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 12/2/12 at 10:26pm

I think that decision (casting white men as dentists) is could be argued as subtly racist, though. It's born from a belief that "No, black men/etc. can't make good doctors."

For some reason, this comment reminded me of the thread I'm linking below. Sometimes, I truly believe, there are just white people who can't stand seeing people of color in parts that weren't specifically written to be played by people of color.
Deidre Goodwin as Sheila: Why It Doesn't Work

[Kad]

Posted: 12/2/12 at 10:43pm

I'm not sure if it's, like, an active "can't stand it", though. It bugs them and they perhaps can't put to words why.

That thread was before I was really active in this forum. Dear god.

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 12/3/12 at 5:26pm

I have no idea why anyone would object to an African-American woman playing Sheila*, unless it were that Sheila's demeanor seems too much like a caricature of the "strong, black woman" stereotype of TV sitcoms.

In fact, except for Connie and Richie, I don't see why all the casting shouldn't be color-blind.

---

*I know, I know: Phyllis graciously gave us an entire thread on the subject, but I'm not sure I really want to know the objections.

***

ETA: Okay, against my better judgment I started reading that thread. What does the OP think black children were doing in the 1940s? He apparently thinks they were barred from the cinema and tap dancing, when in fact tap dancing arose out of black culture.

Updated On: 12/3/12 at 05:26 PM

[lishah]

Posted: 11/25/20 at 7:35am

Yes, it's racist.

[dramamama611]

Posted: 11/25/20 at 12:23pm

This thread is EIGHT years old. The opposite is probably a parent now.

Things change. When you know better, you do better.

[beatofthedrum27]

Posted: 11/25/20 at 1:27pm

Well first, it’s the act itself is technically not racist. Racism means to have hate against a certain person or group because of their race. Though, it may be out of touch depending on how it is handled. Things like Hairspray, if you did it with an all white cast, that’s just not right to be honest especially in the of the production I’ve seen where they’re putting blackface on kids. Whoever did that shouldn’t have a job. I’ve been in a production of Once on this Island where the cast was predominantly white. It was a great show because we knew how to handle it. (It just changes how the story works a little bit. We also had an African American Ti Moune and a White Daniel so that added a whole new element to their storyline). But even things like In the Heights. Lin Manuel Miranda has personally said that he is fine with predominantly white high schools doing that show because it would teach them a lot about Latin culture which is very under represented in schools today. So to answer your question. No it’s not racism if you do it the right way. Now if someone put on blackface and started talking in what is referred to as “Ebonics”, then yes that would be racist. Hope this helped ❤️

[theatreguy12]

Posted: 11/25/20 at 2:03pm

Again, you have to look at the definition of racism.

Some choices, some behaviors, and a lot of actions and words will most certainly fall under that definition.

This country, and this world, has a long way to go when it comes to race relations, and the problem that still confronts us with racism.  There is no denying that.

But seeing racism in everything is not helpful either.  The word is getting thrown around a lot, even in circumstances where it's not warranted.   And that only hurts those who truly are victims of it.  

We really saw this kick into overdrive during the last presidency.  If you didn't agree politically with the former president you were automatically deemed a racist by some.  

I had a friend who was actually a big Ben Carson fan.   He was questioned as to whether his lack of support for BO had to do with his skin color.  He said no.  He didn't agree with his policies.   When he said he was a Ben Carson supporter, he was confronted with, 'What, are you just trying to justify that there isn't a little racism there somewhere?'   My friend responded with, 'No. You inferred I was a racist so I'm just giving you the truth. Is your support of BO some attempt at justifying you're not a racist?'   His colleague had no response to that.  And herein lies another problem.  People who make accusations, get a response, and then call it defensive.  No, you were the one who made the serious accusation, now here's the truth.  If you can't deal with the truth, and are now going to play it up as defensive, that's your issue. 

I have a very conservative black coworker who has a real problem with this.  He says he'd like to say he appreciates white citizens who are standing up for the black community, but as he said, some don't know when to stop.  And when they make it an issue where it's not an issue, it just makes it more difficult for him.  And it becomes almost patronizing.   Suffice it to say he has no problem calling out people who make offensive remarks.  When they happen.  But he doesn't spend his life looking for every minuscule utterance either.  He knows it when he sees it.

Like he said, racism exists.  And it needs to be addressed when it happens.  But to overplay that card only hurts those who truly are victims of it, because an overplayed hand eventually gets ignored.  A la the boy who cried wolf.

[A.J.]

Posted: 11/25/20 at 4:44pm

dramamama611 said: "This thread is EIGHT years old. The opposite is probably a parent now.

Things change. When you know better, you do better."

I actually appreciate an older thread being dug-up about this issue specifically. 

This gives us a good opportunity to see what has and has not changed about our opinions on the topic. As long as we keep in mind the opinions someone shared a long time ago do not necessarily reflect their opinions now. 

[joevitus]

Posted: 11/25/20 at 4:45pm

It's interesting how these answers do not jibe with the arguments in the colorblind/genderblind thread (no suggestion of a need to "get past race" here). I can't tell if the question being asked if white people should be playing roles in blackface, which obviously, no (I guess unless you consider a white actor darkening his skin to play Othello "blackface". But I'd give the same answer I did in that other thread: there are roles that can be played by a person of any race, and there are those that can't. Depends on the role, the production's approach, a lot of things. 

[MadonnaMusical]

Posted: 11/25/20 at 7:27pm

Yes. From now on it is racist for a white person to play a role which should be played by a person of color. Everyone involved with the production from cast to crew to institutions producing the production are holding up systems of oppression.

Whether or not there is ignorance, there is still a system of oppression. It is racist. If you do not call it out, you are racist because you are defending systems of oppression. There are no excuses. You must be anti-racist from now on!