WICKED questions

[Lumes123]

Posted: 4/22/12 at 8:47pm

HEY
So I am writing a Paper on THE WIZARD OF OZ and Musical Theatre and in my paper I am talking about The 1903 musical, The MGM film, The Wiz, and WICKED.
THE WIZARD OF OZ has always been my favorite movie and i have seen it god knows how many times. I just finished watching it so I could make observations and such for my paper but now I am even more confused about WICKED. I have seen the show twice and know the flow of the story but I have some questions I need answered
1)Are the OZ details in WICKED based on L. Frank Baum's book or on the MGM film or both? the BIGGEST detail being the color of Nessarose's shoes. In the begining of WICKED Nessarose recieves a pair of Silver shoes from her father. Now, in the book Dorothy's magical shoes are silver. BUT in WICKED, there is a scene where Elphaba is putting a spell on Nessa's feet so she can walk. I don't know if it was a lighting effect or what but her shoes looked red. Was Elphaba turning the silver shoes into the ruby slippers or was it just an effect from Elphaba's spell on her feet.
2) In the Book Glinda is the Good Witch of the South and in the film she is the good witch of the North? What is she in Wicked as she is the one who sends Dorothy off before the catfight scene which would flow with the sequence of the MGM film but In the book Glinda doesn't come in until the very end

ALSO some general plot questions
1) How Much time passes between the end of ACT ONE and ACT TWO and then from ACT TWO until the end of the musical

2) Was there some sort of prophecy in the book by Maguire depicting that Dorothy would be the one to "kill" Elphaba? How did the whole plan with her "melting" work out exactly in the musical? How did she know Dorothy was going to "melt" her? how did she know glinda would see it happen?

I ABSOLUTLEY realize that WICKED has no legit/legal/ official affiliation with Baum's book OR the moive and it is Maguire's own concept of what happens but I am just interested in discussing these differences in my paper

[Yero my Hero]

Posted: 4/22/12 at 9:12pm

Have you read the book "Wicked"? The book stays closer to the original Baum book, while the musical stays closer to the film (probably because it's what most Broadway audiences are familiar with). Read the book. Most of your questions are clearer in the book.

[Lumes123]

Posted: 4/22/12 at 9:23pm

I did read the book but I know that the musical just cuts and pastes the stuff they wanted from the book and made that into a musical so I just wanted to know what the musical is more based off of

[bwayphreak234]

Posted: 4/22/12 at 9:26pm

Not to mention the fact that the book is 2,000 times better than the musical.

[AEA AGMA SM]

Posted: 4/22/12 at 10:49pm

It's been a while since I read the book, but as I recall the shoes do start out silver when Nessa first receives them. Much later, Glinda enchants the shoes for Nessa, and Maguire ties the movie and Baum novel together stating that after the enchantment the silver shoes now had a ruby glow to them.

There are a few other ways Maguire tried to tie his Oz in with both the MGM movie and Return to Oz. in Out of Oz he retained the compositing of Mombi and Princess Langwidere that happened in Return to Oz, for instance. It also seems that in Wicked his physical description of Dorothy is much closer to the mid-teens Judy Garland than the much younger (up for debate but certainly no older than 11 or 12 at the most, I personally put her around 10) girl Baum wrote about.

[SNAFU]

Posted: 4/23/12 at 2:17pm

I always thought Dorothy was even younger then 10 in the original book. All she complains about is being hungry constantly.

They had to walk a very thin line with Wicked. MGM holds the copyright on all of the images in the movie INCLUDING the Ruby Slippers, the Witch's Hourglass etc. Not sure how they got around the bubble and the Witch being green (neither of those elements are in the books and were pretty much from the movie). When building stuff for Wicked we were told to err in favor of the original illustrations from the Baum Books other then those from the movie.

[ohjustjake]

Posted: 4/23/12 at 2:22pm

I remember reading somewhere that they weren't allowed to use Ruby Slippers in Wicked, so they used silver ones and when she "turns" them ruby, it's just a red lighting effect.

[bway2be]

Posted: 4/23/12 at 4:53pm

Hi there!

A friend sent me your link, and as an Oz enthusiast working on a very big Oz related project of my own (I've read the original Oz books in addition to being familiar with the MGM film, both Wicked's, and the other adaptations), I thought I would take a stab at some of your questions:

1.) The shoes...my impression was always that though the shoes were initially silver (ie when Nessarose first received them), Elphaba's spell to help Nessa walk caused them to turn ruby in Act 2. This is an allusion to both the original Wizard of Oz, where the shoes were silver, and the movie, which changed them to ruby to take advantage of using technicolor. If you read interviews from Gregory Maguire, he did initially intend them to be ruby (as that is what most Oz fans know them as), but, due to copyright constraints (the Oz books are in the public domain, but the movie isn't), he instead described them to an ambiguous "pale" color, so that readers could interpret their color whichever way they wished. I'm honestly not sure if it is a lighting affect or different shoes that makes them turn from silver to ruby in the musical (I feel like it's a lighting effect, though).

As for the other Oz details in the musical, they do seem to follow the movie more: ie, in the Wonderful Wizard of Oz book, the Wizard takes many forms depending on who he is being shown to (beautiful fairy, ball of light, etc), but the musical only has the Wizard take the form of the infamous "Head" used in the MGM film (probably, again, because average viewers are more familiar with the film than the book). Another example is the Tin Man, who in the original Oz books is named Nick Chopper, and the Wicked novel backstory is more consistent with how L. Frank Baum described the Tin Woodman's backstory (which actually can be found in the chapter about the Tin Woodman in the Wonderful Wizard of Oz...Boq in Maguire's novel/The Wonderful Wizard of Oz is a Munchkin with no connection to the Tin Man).

I would agree with people who has that Gregory Maguire's novel does indeed use more details from the Oz books-he references characters such as Lurline and Ozma who are Oz book creations-but I also think that both Maguire and Schwartz/Holzman had to make adjustments so that their stories could be more accessible to average Oz fans (even if the musical made more). For example, Maguire took Elphaba's green skin from the movie (it's not present in the book-she actually has one eye in it and is a very minor character compared to the MGM film!), and though due to copyright constraints he never went about and said it, Maguire's Glinda is the Good Witch of the North as she is in the MGM film (in the original Oz books, she was the Good Witch of the South).

(Btw, if you're a fan of the Oz books, you'll notice that there are Baum creation of "quadlings" in Wiz-O-Mania during "One Short Day." That's the best allusion to the book that I could find).

2.) Your Glinda North versus South segways perfectly from my last question. Again, neither adaptation of Wicked comes right out and says "what" Glinda is, but she is definitely the Good Witch of the North...she describes herself as being from the Gillikin (specifically in the Upper Uplands, Gillikin in the musical), which is the northern Land of Oz. Google an Oz map (either Baum's, Maguire's, or the musical's will do), and you'll have a better sense of how the Lands of Oz work and what domain each of the Witches "ruled" over (Elphaba Winkie Country, Nessarose Munchkinland) and how that corresponded with the directions they were known for.

3.) General plot question---I'm not exactly sure how much time took place between Act one and Act Two (there are points in the musical that the time is a bit questionable-I think they had to reduce time in order to give the story a more consistent flow), but I would roughly say a few years, as my guess is that Elphaba has left Shiz without graduating (like she does in the book) and a few years would have given Glinda/Fiyero/co the time to graduate and start their "adult" jobs. If you roughly say a few years, you'll be safe, I think.

4.) I'm a bit sketchy on this one. I know that in the book, there's a prophecy that plays out about Elphaba's life that is shown in the Clock of the Time Dragon (VERY different from the dragon in the musical!!), but I don't remember if Dorothy specifically played into that. Will have to look into it.

However, I believe that the way the melting happened in the musical is this: unlike the book or either versions of Wizard of Oz (book/movie), where the Wizard asked Dorothy to kill the Wicked Witch of the West (or steal her broom, a la the MGM film), there was specifically a witch hunt, where Dorothy and co. (including Tin Man/Boq and Lion) specifically went out to kill the Wicked Witch of the West in a more direct way than further adaptations. Whereas Dorothy in Maguire's novel is reluctant to kill Elphaba-she melts her by mistake by pouring water on her when her dress catches fire-I think in the musical she absolutely knew that water was going to kill Elphaba. If you listen to "Thank Goodness," there's a whole rumor that the Wicked Witch's "soul is so unclean, pure water will melt her," when in reality, musical Elphaba is NOT allergic to water in the musical as she is in all other version (*ahem* the ending). So, my impression is that witch hunt went to Kiamo Ko (witch's castle) to kill the Witch and specifically used the water as their weapon, knowing (or thinking) that it would kill her...in all other versions of the Wizard of Oz, Dorothy had no idea when she poured the water on the Witch that she was going to kill her.

As for how Elphaba knows the witch hunt is coming...I don't think they explicitly say. I don't know if she knew Glinda would see it either, but I'm sure that she heard via her own sources that the witch hunt was coming for her (I think that's up for us to fill in ourselves). One of her Monkeys also gives her a letter (presumably from Fiyero) about their "plan" (*ahem* spoilers), and Glinda actually comes to Kiamo Ko (the scene pre-"For Good") to specifically warn Elphaba of the witch hunt. But I don't remember if Elphaba already knew they were coming for her before that... (I think she did).

Also, to chime into the discussion of how old Dorothy is...she is, indeed, very young in the original book, especially if you look at W.W. Winslow's illustrations. However, in the further Oz books, she seems to become older (closer to 10), as John R. Neill took over as illustrator and he paints her very differently/old looking than Winslow did. In the MGM film, they made her a little older (Judy Garland was 16 when she played her) to accomodate Judy Garland as the actor, and she seems to be more along the lines of Judy Garland's age in Gregory Maguire's novels: Liir develops a crush on her, and as I believe he's around 14 at that time (end of Wicked/beginning of Son of a Witch), I always pictured Dorothy as being roughly the same age as he is. No idea how old she is in the musical...since she's only seen through silhouette, I don't think it matters (Return to Oz also seems to be truer to how old she is in the original novels).

Well, that was a very lengthy reply, and please feel free to message me for more questions. I will say up front that I don't know as much about The Wiz and Return to Oz as both versions of Wicked, the MGM film, and the Oz books, but I still might be able to answer some questions pertaining to them. Anyway, I hope this helps, and I'll be happy to look up further questions or help in any way I can!

Updated On: 4/23/12 at 04:53 PM

[themysteriousgrowl]

Posted: 4/23/12 at 5:17pm

These questions aren't that bad.

[SNAFU]

Posted: 4/23/12 at 6:51pm

Wicked the musical also comes closer to the Wonderful Wizard of Oz in the fact that while in the city itself everyone has to wear Emerald colored glasses. These transforms Dorothy's dress into an Emerald one. She sadly noticees that when she leaves Oz and takes off the glasses, her dress has returned to it's drab ginham color.

[AEA AGMA SM]

Posted: 4/23/12 at 10:07pm

You also need to be careful as to how far into the Baum books you go, as inconsistencies start popping up. The green glasses, for one example. After discovering the Wizard is a humbug in the first book he admits that the only reason the Emerald City appears so magnificent is due to the green glasses, but in reality it is no greener or more jewel encrusted than any other city. In the next book, The Wonderful Land of Oz, the green glasses are still in use, but Jinjur's Army of Revolt is able to run through the city picking numerous gems out of the city's exterior and streets, gems which the Wizard previously claimed were not really there. After this book we never hear of the glasses again.

Ozma's history also seems to go through a few revisions. Mombi admits to Glinda that the Wizard brought Ozma to her as a baby and had Mombi conceal the infant princess. This confession is made while Glinda is wearing a magic pearl that detects falsehoods. But when the Wizard is next seen, in Dorothy and the Wizard in Oz, he seems to have absolutely no knowledge of Ozma or her lineage and claim to be ruler of Oz. Ozma claims that Mombi was captor to both her father and grandfather, even though the Wizard was previously said to have usurped the throne from Pastorius, Ozma's father.

I love Baum's books, but figuring out what is truly "canon" from his works can be difficult at times due to such inconsistencies.

[SNAFU]

Posted: 4/23/12 at 10:32pm

In the Broadway version, the cab Fiyero enters in on is driven the Saw Horse, a charater that plays in the later books of the Baum cannon. He was a creation , I believe if Jack Pumpkinhead usinf the powder of life. The tours, because of space, changed it into a rickshaw.