Please Correct Me If I'm Wrong...- Page 2

[hearthemsing22]

Posted: 4/7/21 at 4:26pm

rkade21 said: "Don’t agree at all. I will never film a show myself, but I will and have watched bootlegs of shows/casts I cannot see live. Lord know how much I’ve spent on tickets since moving to NYC in 2017, I sleep perfectly sound at night having watched bootlegs and do not agree at all with the industry line that bootlegs (or proshots) reduce the number of people willing to pay for live theater. As another already said, those people who love theater enough to watch a ****ty cell camera bootleg on YouTube are absolutely people who are going to live theater as their location/budget allows. Solving the money and union issue with professional streaming would only serve to increase broader interest and the audience of live theater patrons, in my opinion."

Just taking a relatively recent example:

Do you think people who saw a bootleg of Cameron Dallas in Mean Girls considered getting tickets if they thought he was horrible? Do you think that bootleg hurt the show a bit? Do you think someone who questioned a casting decision is more likely to give the actor a chance if they don't see a bootleg, or if they see one? That's why B-Roll footage exists. It gives people a chance to see if they want to see the show. Not "you get to see the show for free and then you decide if you want to spend the money". No. 

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 4/7/21 at 4:37pm

People will do whatever they want in the world. Understanding that and understanding controlling people in the real world or online simply doesn't work. Move on.

[windowwaving]

Posted: 4/7/21 at 5:00pm

hearthemsing22 said: "Just taking a relatively recent example:

Do you think people who saw a bootleg of Cameron Dallas in Mean Girls considered getting tickets if they thought he was horrible? Do you think that bootleg hurt the show a bit?Do you think someone who questioned a casting decision is more likely to give the actor a chance if they don't see a bootleg, or if they see one? That's why B-Roll footage exists. It gives people a chance to see if they want to see the show. Not "you get to see the show for free and then you decide if you want to spend the money". No."

I actually went to watch Mean Girls because I saw a clip of how horrible Cameron Dallas was (and to be honest, it didn't sound as bad live in the theater). 

Just like the entire bootleg industry itself, these are factors that cannot be controlled. Much as YouTube tries to take down the slime tutorials, there will always be a black market for these bootlegs and will continue whether we want them to or not; moral highground or not. 

I spent thousands of dollars on Broadway before the pandemic, but still enjoyed bootlegs that popped up on my YouTube feed because I enjoyed seeing variations of performances. I didn't actively seek them out, but if they were available they were fun to watch. 

Even if someone were to watch a bootleg online, it in no way replaces the feeling I get by being in a theatre, phone-free, in a dark room, hearing live music and sharing the experience with the audience. That, among other things, is what I pay for. A bootleg cannot even come close to that feeling. 

What I am getting from your posts and responses is that you felt like Broadway was not accessible when you were younger, a feeling many of us share and can relate with, but it almost feels like you are gate keeping because you now have access to it. 

[Alex Kulak2]

Posted: 4/7/21 at 6:03pm

I think the moral value of a bootleg depends on what kind of bootleg. I try to not watch bootlegs, but if I need to for research, I only watch bootlegs of shows that have closed. I was 7 years old and living in rural Illinois when The Frogs was on Broadway, so I couldn't have gone to seen it if I wanted to. Therefore, Stephen Sondheim and Nathan Lane aren't losing money off of a bootleg of a show that closed 15 years ago. If anything, it's brought more attention to the show from a younger generation that got into theatre after the show closed.

[hearthemsing22]

Posted: 4/7/21 at 7:53pm

windowwaving said: "hearthemsing22 said: "Just taking a relatively recent example:

Do you think people who saw a bootleg of Cameron Dallas in Mean Girls considered getting tickets if they thought he was horrible? Do you think that bootleg hurt the show a bit?Do you think someone who questioned a casting decision is more likely to give the actor a chance if they don't see a bootleg, or if they see one? That's why B-Roll footage exists. It gives people a chance to see if they want to see the show. Not "you get to see the show for free and then you decide if you want to spend the money". No."

I actually went to watch Mean Girls because I saw a clip of how horrible Cameron Dallas was (and to be honest, it didn't sound as bad live in the theater).
Thank you!!! People judged him so hard, but I think it was mainly because of a bootleg that was going around. Totally unfair to judge him based off of that. During the first act I remember cringing (I was working in the theater and stayed to watch-NOT PRIVILEGE, WORK) during the first act at one point, but he got better as the show went on! 


Just like the entire bootleg industry itself, these are factors that cannot be controlled. Much as YouTube tries to take down the slime tutorials, there will always be a black market for these bootlegs and will continue whether we want them to or not; moral highground or not.

You're right-but what I can't understand is the people who SELL the bootlegs. That's what upsets me most of all in regards to this subject. 

I spent thousands of dollars on Broadway before the pandemic, but still enjoyed bootlegs that popped up on my YouTube feed because I enjoyed seeing variations of performances. I didn't actively seek them out, but if they were available they were fun to watch.

Even if someone were to watch a bootleg online, it in no way replaces the feeling I get by being in a theatre, phone-free, in a dark room, hearing live music and sharing the experience with the audience. That, among other things, is what I pay for. A bootleg cannot even come close to that feeling.
Totally accurate. 

 


What I am getting from your posts and responses is that you felt like Broadway was not accessible when you were younger, a feeling many of us share and can relate with, but it almost feels like you are gate keeping because you now have access to it."

I didn't care about Broadway when I was younger. I  have my family, and we did things that didn't involve sitting inside staring at a screen. Yes, we went to a few shows, but I didn't obsess over them. I'm not trying to gate keep, I'm trying to say you can't have everything handed to you just because of your location or your age. 

[David10086]

Posted: 4/7/21 at 7:53pm

hearthemsing22 said: "But when I was younger, I couldn't get things because I didn't have the money and I wasn't old enough to get a job yet. So I had to wait. And I was perfectly fine, and survived without those things that I thought Ihadto have. Then I got older, and got jobs, and then I was able to save money to get things I want. I waited. Because while there are things that people are entitled to, there are things that are more special, and should be enjoyed when you can experience the full thing the way they're meant to be experienced. It wasn't just handed to me. This is how I feel about people who say they're entitled to theater, so bootlegs and filming performances are okay. If you can't afford something, you don't steal it, or ask someone else to steal it for you. ."

I grew up the same way. However, when I was a teen in the late 70s /early 80s, I wouldn't pass a chance to 'borrow' someone's LP of an artist I liked, and record it on my cassette player to make copy for myself and save the $5  -  $8 on my own LP or cassette tape. And the LPs I owned, I lent to others to do the same. I did this well into the 80s when I had a paying job, and CDs replaced LPs...but blank cassettes were still available. We all kept doing it for as long as we could. I borrowed LPs and CDs from the library too. Why not ?

So yes, that was indeed a form of stealing and making 'bootlegs' and depriving the artist, songwriters, musicians, etc. of royalties they should have gotten. No doubt. 

I'm guessing you have done the same. 

[hearthemsing22]

Posted: 4/7/21 at 7:54pm

Alex Kulak2 said: "I think the moral value of a bootleg depends on what kind of bootleg. I try to not watch bootlegs, but if I need to for research, I only watch bootlegs of shows that have closed. I was 7 years old and living in rural Illinois when The Frogs was on Broadway, so I couldn't have gone to seen it if I wanted to. Therefore, Stephen Sondheim and Nathan Lane aren't losing money off of a bootleg of a show that closed 15 years ago. If anything, it's brought more attention to the show from a younger generation that got into theatre after the show closed."

Right because there's no other way for younger generations to discover theater other than bootlegs, right? Please. 

[joevitus]

Posted: 4/7/21 at 8:15pm

Call_me_jorge said: " I’m sorry, but I just don’t understand how the side of “if you can’t pay for it you shouldn’t be able to see it.” isn’t just as entitled."

For real? You don't understand how, when anything is created, the people presenting the thing to the public get to decide what the public has to pay to see it? This is absurd. It is, um, entitled.
But it is the mentality that has more or less killed the recording industry. Thanks for that. 

Personally, if I see a show that a show or production I want to see is posted on YouTube, I'll watch it. But I don't think it's owed to me to let me see it. I lucked out. Great for me. But not owed to me.

Updated On: 4/7/21 at 08:15 PM

[dramamama611]

Posted: 4/8/21 at 3:46am

hearthemsing22 said: "dramamama611 said: "BROADWAY is a luxury - theater isn't. And that being said, there are LOTS of theater to be had a reasonable price.



Entitlement: feeling that because a seat is "empty" you are entitled to move into it."

Please read what I wrote---I never said I felt entitled to it!! I said I saw it was empty, and WOULD ASK IF I COULD MOVE. If a seat is empty throughout the first act and into intermission, by the end of intermission, I would ASK an usher if It WAS OKAY that I move there. I never, ever would think I'm entitled to that seat!! For all I know that person is running late or something! But I would ask. I would never go there without express permission. If they say no, I'm back in my regular seat. Not a problem. Never a problem. I worked as an usher-I know how it goes. But please for God sakes give me the curtesy of reading my previous comments because I always ask. I never assume I'm entitled to that empty seat."

Actually, you didn't say that, at all.  You never said anything about asking for permission, and I quote:  "I have never rarely sat in the orchestra unless I moved there during intermission because I happen to spot an empty seat from the back of the mezzanine."

 

I think this whole post is ridiculous, when only a few days ago you were whining that a friend wouldn't try getting you a theater job.

I dont watch bootlegs, I dont seek them out. I think productions should do more to keep them out of circulation. I believe it is wrong to steal from artists......but I cant begrudge a kid unable to go see a show for any reason from watching what exists. 

Your holier than thou attitude in this post is quite off putting.

[justoldbill]

Posted: 4/8/21 at 5:42am

So, who was better in COMPANY- Dean Jones or Larry Kert?

[Philly Theater Girl]

Posted: 4/8/21 at 8:24am

I've been to Broadway, I've seen local theater and I've watched bootlegs. When I go to Broadway it doesn't feel special to me because I earned it - my overall feeling is 'this trip to NYC is pretty damn expensive'.

There are many, many people out there who will never be able to afford going to the theater so I'm certainly not going to begrudge them watching a bootleg. 

As someone else said, this topic is ridiculous. 

[dramamama611]

Posted: 4/8/21 at 9:00am

Philly Theater Girl - I'm really sorry that that's the overall feeling you have.  Certainly, Bway and NYC ARE very expensive - but the only time I think that is when whatever shows we see aren't worth other than that?  Damn, I AM worth it and it feels good!

 

(I will admit: my bank account looks damn good right now, so I might be re-thinking just how often I go!)

[hearthemsing22]

Posted: 4/8/21 at 9:42am

justoldbill said: "So, who was better in COMPANY- Dean Jones or Larry Kert?"

....Huh? I never saw the original cast. I’ve only seen the most recent Broadway revival. 
 

also, yes, if you go back you’ll see I did mention asking an usher if I could move there so please stop because I always ASK. I’m not entitled to that seat and someone could’ve taken their coat with them when they got up. It hasn’t been many times (less than 5) but when I do, I ALWAYS ask. 
 

An attitude that someone is entitled to bootlegs is off putting too. Hey-what can I say? Then don’t comment. Do people not have to earn things anymore? They just get them for free because of their location?