Broadway Grosses: Week Ending 7/14/19- Page 2
Broadway Grosses: Week Ending 7/14/19
Jarethan
Broadway Legend Joined: 2/10/11
#25Broadway Grosses: Week Ending 7/14/19
Posted: 7/16/19 at 11:24am
Impossible2 said: "OAADA81 said: "BritCrit said: "dramamama611 said: "Nominations seldom make any difference, and the only Tony that seems to make any substantial difference is Best Musical."
Catch Me if You Can was the last musical to win Best Actor without winning a Best Musical award, and that didn’t last very long....
I feel like there are two things which have really made things harder for Tootsie - the sexual harassment/assault scandals which tarnishedDustin Hoffman’s image(his attempts at claiming that working on Tootsie changed him for the better REALLY didn’t help) and the issues affecting a premiselike this in the age of #TimesUp and Trans Rights..."
Ooh, that last point is a great one. I never even thought of that but I think it's possibly the strongest reason for Toosie's weak showing."
Oh bollox x
The factis Tootsie was always one of those movies that won heaps of awards and everyone who was anyone “loved” at the time. But even though it did pretty well,the general public really didn’t like it all that much. I was shocked when they announced it. Clearly they never got the memo.
Pretty Woman was always much more beloved by the average Joe, which is why even though it is terrible more people are willing to give it a chance x"
You must live in a parallel universe. The movie Tootsie was a monster hit when it was released. I think the difference between the two is that Tootsie is 40 years old, emphasizing comedy, and is a lousy musical, whereas Pretty Woman was a bigger hot and emphasized romance, with a lot of good comedy, and also was made into a lousy musical. Pretty Woman also had IMO one or two of the most loved scenes in movies, and people remember them with great fondness. They wanted to recapture those moments.
in the final analysis, with either show, word of mouth was ultimately going to kill them, just as huge lousy shows with huge stars have failed in the past, once the advances ran out. Word of mouth eventually takes over.
#26Broadway Grosses: Week Ending 7/14/19
Posted: 7/16/19 at 11:39am
Impossible2 said: "OAADA81 said: "BritCrit said: "dramamama611 said: "Nominations seldom make any difference, and the only Tony that seems to make any substantial difference is Best Musical."
Catch Me if You Can was the last musical to win Best Actor without winning a Best Musical award, and that didn’t last very long....
I feel like there are two things which have really made things harder for Tootsie - the sexual harassment/assault scandals which tarnishedDustin Hoffman’s image(his attempts at claiming that working on Tootsie changed him for the better REALLY didn’t help) and the issues affecting a premiselike this in the age of #TimesUp and Trans Rights..."
Ooh, that last point is a great one. I never even thought of that but I think it's possibly the strongest reason for Toosie's weak showing."
Oh bollox x
The factis Tootsie was always one of those movies that won heaps of awards and everyone who was anyone “loved” at the time. But even though it did pretty well,the general public really didn’t like it all that much. I was shocked when they announced it. Clearly they never got the memo.
Pretty Woman was always much more beloved by the average Joe, which is why even though it is terrible more people are willing to give it a chance x"
You're kidding, right? 'Tootsie' was a massive popular success when it was released in 1982. It was the second most popular film of the entire year (only 'E.T.' made more money) and stayed in theaters for much of 1983. In addition, in the American Film Institute's list of the best comedies of all time they listed 'Tootsie' as #2. You were either born after 1982 or were orbiting the planet until 1984 if you think 'Tootsie' "did pretty well (but) the general public really didn't like it all that much". Return the memo you got....it's a forgery.
#27Broadway Grosses: Week Ending 7/14/19
Posted: 7/16/19 at 12:23pm
I think the main issue here is as a millennial I had never heard of Tootsie before the broadway show, nor had anyone else my age that I know. Pretty Woman I am obviously aware of however Tootsie I was not. Im not speaking for everyone my age but my take is the staying power of Pretty Woman transitioned into a musical much better. Tootsie's staying power didn't last long past the 80s and 90s id say. I never really see it on tv, or on demand, or streaming services. Im not debating its popularity back then as I was not alive for it but I think ultimately it did not have the staying power to make a successful musical adaptation out of it. Lets see how Tootsie does, but its not too crazy to think that Pretty Woman may have run longer than Tootsie by the end of their runs.
#28Broadway Grosses: Week Ending 7/14/19
Posted: 7/16/19 at 1:25pm
Mike Barrett said: "I think the main issue here is as a millennial I had never heard of Tootsie before the broadway show, nor had anyone else my age that I know. Pretty Woman I am obviously aware of however Tootsie I was not. Im not speaking for everyone my age but my take is the staying power of Pretty Woman transitioned into a musical much better. Tootsie's staying power didn't last long past the 80s and 90s id say. I never really see it on tv, or on demand, or streaming services. Im not debating its popularity back then as I was not alive for it but I think ultimately it did not have the staying power to make a successful musical adaptation out of it. Lets see how Tootsie does, but its not too crazy to think that Pretty Woman may have run longer than Tootsie by the end of their runs."
Millennials aren't the only theater-goers in NYC. In fact, theater audiences tend to skew older in general, so more would know the original 'Tootsie'. But I think you're right about the staying power of the two films. Julia Roberts was contemporary then and is contemporary now, which helps 'Pretty Woman's staying power. I expect the musical version will have enjoyed a longer run than 'Tootsie', whose box office is already in decline.
One thing, if you enjoy the arts you SHOULD know about Tootsie-the film and more. There's such a legacy in film, theater and music that's there to explore and discover. You'd be surprised how much of it remains relevant.
#29Broadway Grosses: Week Ending 7/14/19
Posted: 7/16/19 at 1:55pm
Never once implied millennials are the only theatre goers in NYC, I am just speaking from my experiences. I had not heard of Tootsie before but I did see this show. It was a fun comedy that I really didn't find too problematic and as it never tried getting to deep into the issue. I think though like I said, millennial or not, the staying power of Pretty Woman is MUCH stronger than that of Tootsie's. Just because it was the 2nd highest grossing film that year doesn't mean its going to sustain itself. Anyone remember the 2nd highest grossing film of 2006? Look it up, and you'd be surprised. Good Box office doesn't mean lasting memory
#30Broadway Grosses: Week Ending 7/14/19
Posted: 7/16/19 at 2:35pm
Mike Barrett said: "Never once implied millennials are the only theatre goers in NYC, I am just speaking from my experiences. I had not heard of Tootsie before but I did see this show. It was a fun comedy that I really didn't find too problematic and as it never tried getting to deep into the issue. I think though like I said, millennial or not, the staying power of Pretty Woman is MUCH stronger than that of Tootsie's. Just because it was the 2nd highest grossing film that year doesn't mean its going to sustain itself. Anyone remember the 2nd highest grossing film of 2006? Look it up, and you'd be surprised. GoodBox office doesn't mean lasting memory"
Why so defensive? I pretty much agreed with your initial post and I certainly never said you implied millenials are the only theater-goers in NYC. When I said Tootsie was the #2 film of 1982, I wasn't referring to staying power; I was just responding to a post that stated the film wasn't popular with the general public. That's all. You pointed out some things that hadn't occurred to me that made sense so I agreed with you and still do. I'm on your side.
#31Broadway Grosses: Week Ending 7/14/19
Posted: 7/16/19 at 4:11pm
AADA81 said: "Mike Barrett said: "Never once implied millennials are the only theatre goers in NYC, I am just speaking from my experiences. I had not heard of Tootsie before but I did see this show. It was a fun comedy that I really didn't find too problematic and as it never tried getting to deep into the issue. I think though like I said, millennial or not, the staying power of Pretty Woman is MUCH stronger than that of Tootsie's. Just because it was the 2nd highest grossing film that year doesn't mean its going to sustain itself. Anyone remember the 2nd highest grossing film of 2006? Look it up, and you'd be surprised. GoodBox office doesn't mean lasting memory"
Why so defensive? I pretty much agreed with your initial post and I certainly never said you implied millenials are the only theater-goers in NYC. When I said Tootsie was the #2 film of 1982, I wasn't referring to staying power; I wasjust responding to a post that stated the film wasn't popular with the general public. That's all. You pointed out some things that hadn't occurred to me that made sense so I agreed with you and still do. I'm on your side."
Apologies if I came off defensive. Usually on this board there’s snark and sometimes I can’t take it so I assume you thought I only thought millennial saw theatre which obviously is not true so I apologize!
BroadwayRox3588
Broadway Legend Joined: 10/5/16
#32Broadway Grosses: Week Ending 7/14/19
Posted: 7/16/19 at 4:16pm
Just popping in to say you really don't need to quote the entire comment thread, when quoting a message. Just makes everything look cluttered.
#33Broadway Grosses: Week Ending 7/14/19
Posted: 7/16/19 at 6:29pm
Mike Barrett said: "AADA81 said: "Mike Barrett said: "Never once implied millennials are the only theatre goers in NYC, I am just speaking from my experiences. I had not heard of Tootsie before but I did see this show. It was a fun comedy that I really didn't find too problematic and as it never tried getting to deep into the issue. I think though like I said, millennial or not, the staying power of Pretty Woman is MUCH stronger than that of Tootsie's. Just because it was the 2nd highest grossing film that year doesn't mean its going to sustain itself. Anyone remember the 2nd highest grossing film of 2006? Look it up, and you'd be surprised. GoodBox office doesn't mean lasting memory"
Why so defensive? I pretty much agreed with your initial post and I certainly never said you implied millenials are the only theater-goers in NYC. When I said Tootsie was the #2 film of 1982, I wasn't referring to staying power; I wasjust responding to a post that stated the film wasn't popular with the general public. That's all. You pointed out some things that hadn't occurred to me that made sense so I agreed with you and still do. I'm on your side."
Apologies if I came off defensive. Usually on this board there’s snark and sometimes I can’t take it so I assume you thought I only thought millennial saw theatre which obviously is not true so I apologize!"
No apology necessary, Mike. Your original post was well written and got me to thinking, so please keep sharing your thoughtful opinions!
Impossible2
Broadway Legend Joined: 3/31/18
#34Broadway Grosses: Week Ending 7/14/19
Posted: 7/16/19 at 8:16pm
AADA81 said: "Impossible2 said: "OAADA81 said: "BritCrit said: "dramamama611 said: "Nominations seldom make any difference, and the only Tony that seems to make any substantial difference is Best Musical."
Catch Me if You Can was the last musical to win Best Actor without winning a Best Musical award, and that didn’t last very long....
I feel like there are two things which have really made things harder for Tootsie - the sexual harassment/assault scandals which tarnishedDustin Hoffman’s image(his attempts at claiming that working on Tootsie changed him for the better REALLY didn’t help) and the issues affecting a premiselike this in the age of #TimesUp and Trans Rights..."
Ooh, that last point is a great one. I never even thought of that but I think it's possibly the strongest reason for Toosie's weak showing."
Oh bollox x
The factis Tootsie was always one of those movies that won heaps of awards and everyone who was anyone “loved” at the time. But even though it did pretty well,the general public really didn’t like it all that much. I was shocked when they announced it. Clearly they never got the memo.
Pretty Woman was always much more beloved by the average Joe, which is why even though it is terrible more people are willing to give it a chance x"
You're kidding, right? 'Tootsie' was a massive popular success when it was released in 1982. It was the second most popular film of the entire year (only 'E.T.' made more money) and stayed in theaters for much of 1983. In addition, in the American Film Institute's listof the best comedies of all time they listed 'Tootsie' as #2. You were either born after 1982 or were orbiting the planet until 1984if you think 'Tootsie' "did pretty well (but) the general public really didn't like it all that much". Return the memo yougot....it's a forgery."
I was born in 1970.
Lots of films do great at the box office, but that doesn't mean that everyone who goes to see them likes them.
I said the critics loved it, dunno how you missed that bit.
I like the film, I even own the bluray, but I'd never shell out $100+ to go see a musical version of it and obviously nor does anyone else x
Impossible2
Broadway Legend Joined: 3/31/18
#35Broadway Grosses: Week Ending 7/14/19
Posted: 7/16/19 at 8:24pm
Mike Barrett said: "I think the main issue here is as a millennial I had never heard of Tootsie before the broadway show, nor had anyone else my age that I know. Pretty Woman I am obviously aware of however Tootsie I was not. Im not speaking for everyone my age but my take is the staying power of Pretty Woman transitioned into a musical much better. Tootsie's staying power didn't last long past the 80s and 90s id say. I never really see it on tv, or on demand, or streaming services. Im not debating its popularity back then as I was not alive for it but I think ultimately it did not have the staying power to make a successful musical adaptation out of it. Lets see how Tootsie does, but its not too crazy to think that Pretty Woman may have run longer than Tootsie by the end of their runs."
It was popular at the time, but nowhere near the cultural juggernaught that was Pretty Woman x
#36Broadway Grosses: Week Ending 7/14/19
Posted: 7/16/19 at 8:55pm
Impossible2 said: I was born in 1970.
Lots of films do great at the box office, but that doesn't mean that everyone who goes to see them likes them.
Did that thought just occur to you or are you thinking you just said something every other movie-goer doesn't already know?
I said the critics loved it, dunno how you missed that bit.
I missed nothing, including the context you distortedly put that fact into to support your own fiction.
I like the film, I even own the bluray, but I'd never shell out $100+ to go see a musical version of it and obviously nor does anyone elsex"
More distortions, and BTW, somebody must be shelling it out because it's still playing, though from posts on this sight it sounds like it's barely any better than 'Pretty Woman'. Satisfied?
#37Broadway Grosses: Week Ending 7/14/19
Posted: 7/16/19 at 9:33pm
Mike Barrett said: "I think the main issue here is as a millennial I had never heard of Tootsie before the broadway show, nor had anyone else my age that I know. "
Not to meander this point, but I also had no idea Tootsie was a thing before this current show. I would not be surprised if people my age think it's an original show, not based on anything.
Impossible2
Broadway Legend Joined: 3/31/18
#38Broadway Grosses: Week Ending 7/14/19
Posted: 7/16/19 at 9:37pm
DoTheDood said: "Mike Barrett said: "I think the main issue here is as a millennial I had never heard of Tootsie before the broadway show, nor had anyone else my age that I know. "
Not to meander this point, but I also had no idea Tootsie was a thing before this current show. I would not be surprised if people my age think it's an original show, not based on anything."
They probably think it’s a Drag Race rip off x
#39Broadway Grosses: Week Ending 7/14/19
Posted: 7/16/19 at 9:39pm
DoTheDood said: "Mike Barrett said: "I think the main issue here is as a millennial I had never heard of Tootsie before the broadway show, nor had anyone else my age that I know. "
Not to meander this point, but I also had no idea Tootsie was a thing before this current show. I would not be surprised if people my age think it's an original show, not based on anything."
I realized from Mike's post that that was a reality I was oblivious to and now I do think that has played a part in the lackluster box office. An original show about someone who dresses as a woman to get an acting part must sound anachronistic to a younger person. Now that I put it that way, it sounds anachronistic to me! I completely get your point.
Smaxie
Broadway Legend Joined: 9/26/05
#40Broadway Grosses: Week Ending 7/14/19
Posted: 7/16/19 at 10:19pm
For what it's worth:
Tootsie's domestic gross (1983): $177,200,000
Pretty Woman's domestic gross (1990): $178,406,268
So, roughly equivalent, and if you factor in inflation, Tootsie probably comes out ahead of Pretty Woman.
Begin at the beginning and go on till you come to the end: then stop.
#41Broadway Grosses: Week Ending 7/14/19
Posted: 7/16/19 at 10:53pm
AADA81 said: "An original show about someone who dresses as a woman to get an acting part must sound anachronistic to a younger person. Now that I put it that way, it sounds anachronistic to me! I completely get your point."
That is really what made me kind of question why this seemed like the best show to adapt. They tried to make it seem progressive, and maybe it is in some sense, but it's exclusion of any trans undertones makes it seem ironically regressive currently. That just seems like a lot of work for this to then become outdated within a few years.
#42Broadway Grosses: Week Ending 7/14/19
Posted: 7/16/19 at 11:18pm
DoTheDood said: "AADA81 said: "An original show about someone who dresses as a woman to get an acting part must sound anachronistic to a younger person. Now that I put it that way, it sounds anachronistic to me! I completely get your point."
That is really what made me kind of question why this seemed like the best show to adapt. They tried to make it seem progressive, and maybe it is in some sense, but it's exclusion of any trans undertones makes it seem ironically regressive currently. That just seems like a lot of work for this to thenbecome outdated within a few years."
I think it was progressive in 1982 but, as two younger posters astutely corrected me, it's not now. It must seem rather regressive to younger generations who don't see being transgender as way to hide. It wasn't the authors' original intention of the piece, but it sure plays that way now. Last year's 'Carousel' revival suffered a similar dissonance with the times. But times change and that's the fact of the matter.
#43Broadway Grosses: Week Ending 7/14/19
Posted: 7/16/19 at 11:59pm
AADA81 said: "I think it was progressive in 1982 but, as two younger posters astutely corrected me, it's not now."
I think it was relatively progressive for the early 80's, but it has quickly soured in the worst way through time. The music is going to have the same fate.
"Last year's 'Carousel' revival suffered a similar dissonance with the times. But times change and that's the fact of the matter."
Great example. The only difference I would point out is it's hard to have a cannon of Broadway without Carousel. With it's problematic issue or not, Carousel is worth discussing because of it's history. Tootsie on the other hand, it could have easily not been made. I love the actors, the book, and plenty of songs, but this energy could have sadly been used for a better musical.
#44Broadway Grosses: Week Ending 7/14/19
Posted: 7/17/19 at 12:08am
DoTheDood said: "AADA81 said: "I think it was progressive in 1982 but, as two younger posters astutely corrected me, it's not now."
I think it was relatively progressive for the early 80's, but it has quickly soured in the worst way through time. The music is going to have the same fate.
"Last year's 'Carousel' revival suffered a similar dissonance with the times. But times change and that's the fact of the matter."
Great example. The only difference I would point out is it's hard to have a cannon of Broadway without Carousel. With it's problematic issue or not,Carousel is worth discussing because of it's history. Tootsie on the other hand, it could have easily not been made. I love the actors, the book, and plenty of songs, but this energy could have sadly been used for a better musical."
I think you're right about Tootsie and Carousel. I enjoyed Tootsie in 1982 but it's terribly dated. On the other hand, 'Carousel' is one of my favorite musicals of all time. The score is one of the glories of American musical theater. The libretto has several issues because of the era it was written in. But that show should never be discarded for outdated attitudes because there is so much to appreciate. Tootsie is far from that.
Jarethan
Broadway Legend Joined: 2/10/11
#45Broadway Grosses: Week Ending 7/14/19
Posted: 7/17/19 at 10:45am
AADA81 said: "DoTheDood said: "Mike Barrett said: "I think the main issue here is as a millennial I had never heard of Tootsie before the broadway show, nor had anyone else my age that I know. "
Not to meander this point, but I also had no idea Tootsie was a thing before this current show. I would not be surprised if people my age think it's an original show, not based on anything."
I realized from Mike's post that that was a reality I was oblivious to and now I do think that has played a part in the lackluster box office. An original show about someone who dresses as a woman to get an acting part mustsound anachronistic to a younger person. Now that I put it that way, it sounds anachronistic to me! I completely get your point."
I. An see the point; however, if it were a better show with a great score (which God knows it does not have) and word of mouth was better, it probably wouldn’t matter.
#46Broadway Grosses: Week Ending 7/14/19
Posted: 7/17/19 at 10:55am
From having seen it and not the film, Tootsie was a fun comedy with a serviceable score that'll please the tourists who paid to see it. Its not trying to be much more than that, trust me. Go see the show and it really is focused on the comedy aspect of the show. It garnered a lot of tony nominations in a relatively weaker season because of its strong book and performances. It's a bit outdated for sure, but I don't think its SO outdated or offensive that they should not have brought it broadway. It doesn't pain Michael in a great light for doing what he did, they really just point out the comedic aspects of this entire thing. Doesn't get political really at all.
#47Broadway Grosses: Week Ending 7/14/19
Posted: 7/17/19 at 11:20am
Mike Barrett said: "From having seen it and not the film, Tootsie was a fun comedy with a serviceable score that'll please the tourists who paid to see it. Its not trying to be much more than that, trust me. Go see the show and it really is focused on the comedy aspect of the show. It garnered a lot of tony nominations in a relatively weaker season because of its strong book and performances. It's a bit outdated for sure, but I don't think its SO outdated or offensive that they should not have broughtit broadway. It doesn't pain Michael in a great light for doing what he did, they really just point out the comedic aspects of this entire thing. Doesn't get political really at all."
The positive reviews really did point out the strength of the book and one (I think the NYT) said the book reinvented and improved upon the film. I will say, in the original film I loved the character of Dorothy and did not like Michael at all (mostly because of how Hoffman played him) but they also did not paint him in a very good light for doing what he did. Still, it was very funny but very "late-70s-early-80s" in its attitudes about people, especially women.
Impossible2
Broadway Legend Joined: 3/31/18
#48Broadway Grosses: Week Ending 7/14/19
Posted: 7/17/19 at 3:06pm
Smaxie said: "For what it's worth:
Tootsie's domestic gross (1983):$177,200,000
Pretty Woman's domestic gross (1990):$178,406,268
So, roughly equivalent, and if you factor in inflation, Tootsie probably comes out ahead of Pretty Woman.
"
PW also had a major hit soundtrack around the globe and relaunched Richard Gere's career while shooting Julia Roberts straight onto the A-List. It was a much bigger 'monster' culturally than Tootsie was.
I'm sure a lot of people are going to PW thinking they are going to hear songs from the film soundtrack and are very disappointed x
#49Broadway Grosses: Week Ending 7/14/19
Posted: 7/17/19 at 3:18pm
Smaxie said: "For what it's worth:
Tootsie's domestic gross (1983):$177,200,000
Pretty Woman's domestic gross (1990):$178,406,268
So, roughly equivalent, and if you factor in inflation, Tootsie probably comes out ahead of Pretty Woman.
Adjusted for inflation (1983-1990), Tootsie's DG would be $232,000,000 so about $54,000,000 more than Pretty Woman. That's was a sizeable difference in the late 80s-early 90s, but both films were huge successes and I would've expected both would have had bigger showings on B'way. Perhaps folks are correct that word-of-mouth was harmful, although just going by its Tony awards segment, I thought Tootsie looked terrible, and 'Pretty Woman' has had the charismatic Andy Karl in a leading role.
