Interview: Griffin Matthews & Matt Gould - Partners For Life, For Theatre, For UP

What does a black Christian man and a white Jewish man have in common? Griffin Matthews, a black Christian man, and Matt Gould, a white Jewish man, are co-directors of a non-profit, co-writers of a docu-musical, and co-parents to a beautiful little boy. Their theatre piece WITNESS UGANDA (based on their non-profit UgandaProject) will begin February 8, 2019 at The Wallis. They took some time out of their combined multi-tasking to answer a few of my inquiries.

Thank you Both for taking the time for this interview!

Griffin, in 2005 you created UgandaProject (UP), the nucleus of WITNESS UGANDA. How did the idea of creating WITNESS UGANDA first emerge? Whose idea was it originally? I heard there might have been some illegal recording involved? Please elaborate.

Griffin Matthews: We were running our non-profit (UgandaProject) in Uganda for a few years when the US economy tanked in 2008. I'd just met Matt, who was a former Peace Corps volunteer. He suggested that we write a musical about the complexity of helping people in developing countries as a fundraiser for UgandaProject. I thought it was the worst idea I'd ever heard!! So he started secretly recording my rants about how frustrated I was with the work we were doing in Uganda, and set some of those recordings to music. And that was the start of the musical. And yes, secretly recording me was/is totally illegal!

Matt, when did you become co-director of UgandaProject with Griffin?

Matt Gould: Did I have a choice? When you write a musical about a non-profit, and then you marry the founder; you become the co-director by default. I've always wanted to be Michelle Obama, so... winning!

You first toured WITNESS UGANDA in concert form in 2008. How much restructuring did you do to transform WITNESS UGANDA into its world premiere condition in 2014? And to have it directed by Diane Paulus!

MG: The show started as a fundraiser. So when we had our first production, we were trying to figure out how the bridge the gap from fundraiser/TED Talks to book musical. We wanted it to be a hybrid. We took a lot of important steps towards that in 2014. But ultimately, this new production feels closest to the raw, explosive, no-frills storytelling that we'd always hoped it could be.

What were the reasons you changed the name of your 2014 world premiere to INVISIBLE THREAD, and now back to WITNESS UGANDA for its now west coast premiere?

GM: At the encouragement of some producers, we agreed to use INVISIBLE THREAD as an experiment in New York City to see if it would make the show feel more accessible. At the end of the day, it didn't feel true to our show or our intentions. So, we're back to what feels most authentic and real for us.

MG: And also, WITNESS UGANDA is just a better title!

Matt, you've worked at The Wallis as recently as December 2016 as musical director for MERRILY WE ROLL ALONG, Is that when WITNESS UGANDA found its west coast premiere home?

MG: Theater is so much about community and relationships. I LOVED working at The Wallis in 2016, and asked if they'd take a look at WITNESS. The artistic staff there is interested in fostering new kinds of stories from the perspectives of artists whose voices aren't always given a platform. They were so enthusiastic about giving us a chance to tell our story in a fresh way. It was a no-brainer.

Has there been much tweaking to the 2014 version to the west premiere to be at The Wallis?

GM: There are new songs, new scenes and a focus on leaning into the weird, foreign and difficult aspects of the storytelling. For us, it's all about not being afraid to be as bold, loud and unusual - as the humans we've come to know and love are. We hope it's a testament to the fact that real life is always the most intriguing fodder for great stories!

Anyone from your world premiere reprising their role at The Wallis?

MG: Jamar Williams, who formerly played Ibrahim, steps into the role of Griffin. Griffin Matthews, who was formerly Griffin, steps into the role of Director! Amber Iman, who played the Rain Lady in a workshop, moves into the role of Joy. And I... remain in my role as conductor. So..., I guess I'm the only one who didn't get a promotion.

On the UP home page, "The Facts & Figures" are quite impressive. Can you pick any one accomplishment that you are most proud of?

GM: The greatest accomplishment is that in the next year, we'll no longer have to exist as a non-profit. We will have managed to graduate all of our students! And now, they are able to take the reins and help their brothers, sisters, sons and daughters to get the education that they received. The goal of any non-profit ought to be to not have to exist. And we're proud that we've reached our modest goals.

Griffin, you communicate with your students in Uganda daily (via skype, email, [phone, Facebook). Is this like having an extended family to yourself and Matt?

GM: Of course! We've shared birthdays, holidays, births, deaths, weddings. Family is about so much more than blood now. Family is about the people who show up for us in our moments of success and failure. That's what our students have done for us, and what we hope we do for them.

Does being real-life partners have advantages to being creative partners? (tossing ideas at all hours of the day and night, short-hand in finishing each other's ideas)?

GM: Yes and no. Yes, because we get to live in a creative place at all times. No, because we have to live in a creative place at all times.

Does one of you have to tell the other to "Stop working!"

MG & GM: I have to tell him to stop working!

Describe your creative relationship. Of the two of you - Who's Kander, who's Ebb? Who's Lennon, who's McCartney? Who's Gaga, who's Cooper?

MG: With respect, there is an omission in your question. All of the pairs you named are white. Part of our mission is to bring more colorful storytelling to the stage. And to do that requires people with different backgrounds, races and life experiences coming together to tell stories from new perspectives, with new ideas and ideals.

My bad! I totally get what you're saying. Can you now give us a sneak preview of your next collaboration, THE FAMILY PROJECT as to what we can expect?

MG: THE FAMILY PROJECT is a docu-musical about how a Black Christian Man and a White Jewish Man come together to make a family. How do two people from two totally different backgrounds--born out of a legacy of slavery and holocaust - find a way to speak a common language? We love each other, but we've struggled to find ways to combine our values and our styles. The show is about how if we can't make our relationships work on a micro level, then we'll never be able to conquer the conflicts that plague the world on a macro level.

Do you like to mix things up with working together and working on separate ventures?

GM: Totally! I'm shooting Season 3 of Dear White People right now. Matt is working towards a New York run for LEMPICKA. Matt is my best coach and writing partner.

MG: And Griffin is mine!

GM: And, we recently became foster dads to a beautiful little boy who has become our best teacher and our greatest joy. Parenthood is such a challenge, but we're very lucky because (as a couple) we work together a lot, so we can bring him to work with us!!

MG: People love two men and a baby!

GM: We've never been happier!

How would you both like The Wallis audiences to leave feeling after your curtain call?

MG: I hope people feel like they had an experience. There's a myth that has been propagated that the theater is a place to escape, and it isn't true. We spend all day escaping with our phones, our social media, and our TV. The theater is the one place where you can go and feel totally present. It's our responsibility as artists to give people the opportunity to feel all the things they can't feel with the distractions of contemporary life. I hope they feel inspired. And then, I hope they have the courage to share that feeling with the people around them.

Thank you again, Guys! I look forward to experiencing your musicality and your UP message.

For ticket availability and show schedule through February 23, 2019; log onto www.TheWallis.org