Terminator Salvation (SPOILERS!)

[Taryn]

Posted: 5/23/09 at 12:25am

So I saw the film today with my fam, all of whom are big Terminator fans, and we all enjoyed it. I think the critics are being overly harsh. It's certainly not the kind of film that the first two are, but--similar to the third--it's a fun, decent action flick. I doubt it would have gotten such scathing reviews if the first two weren't as revered as they are.

For anyone else who's seen it: can SOMEONE come up with a reasonable explanation as to HOW Skynet knew that Kyle Reese is John Connor's father? There's no reason for it to be in any records of our present time, ESPECIALLY considering as most records were lost. (In the first film, future-Skynet only knows the name Sarah Connor and the city she lives in, hence killing ALL the Sarah Connors in the city.) The timeline's already different from the one we learn in Terminator, because Judgment Day is postponed, but Skynet has just finished designing the T-800 (which is what Arnold is: Model 101). The main problem is that it seems that current-Skynet is fully aware of what future-Skynet has done. When Skynet is talking to Marcus towards the end (through Helena Bonham Carter's appearance), she talks about the repeated attempts to kill John Connor. But how would she know about the attempts in the first three movies? THEY HAVEN'T HAPPENED YET. And if she's talking about different attempts, WHY? John Connor clearly hasn't reached the level of leadership he is meant for, and at this point, he shouldn't be any special sort of threat.

Also: if they know Kyle Reese is John's father, WHY don't they just kill him IMMEDIATELY? And effectively negate John Connor's entire existence?

Last: yes, designing a terminator who thinks he's a human is a great infiltration device. But if he thinks he's a human, it can't really become all that surprising when he decides to fight against he machines. So why not design him so that, when he returns back to San Francisco and basically plugs into Skynet, he shuts down? Or something like that? It seems common-sense. Also, why not put some alert out on him when he clearly joins the human side? So that maybe this BASE FULL OF MACHINES can try to stop him BEFORE he gets to John Connor?

...but yeah, I had a fun time.

[defyingravity07]

Posted: 5/23/09 at 12:41am

I saw it today too. I thought it was pretty good. You know that ,before it leaked, John DID die at the end of the movie. I liked Linda Hamilton & Arnie's cameos, even if Arnie's isn't really a cameo.

[antonijan]

Posted: 5/23/09 at 2:21pm

What was Linda's cameo? The tape recordings? Did she appear in this latest flick?

[defyingravity07]

Posted: 5/23/09 at 2:45pm

She was just on the recordings but they were NEW recordings. Not from 1984. The entire scene between Marcus & Skynet was brilliant!

[Pippin]

Posted: 5/25/09 at 12:17pm

I loved the movie. great action sequences, intenses war shots, great acting, led by Bale. any terminator fan should see this in the theater.

and Taryn: I have no idea. I was confused too.

[singingbackup]

Posted: 5/25/09 at 9:14pm

Why WAS it so confusing if this is such a revered film series. Why didn't they do it right? That to me isn't fun and I did not have such a great time watching it. And Bale's gravely brooding schtick (Batman anyone?) is getting old.

Star Trek so far rules the summer for me. HP up next! (but not soon enough)

[spiderdj82]

Posted: 5/25/09 at 9:17pm

Well, in T2, while Sarah was in the mental institution she told the Psychiatrist her story about the future, Kyle, etc. It's in her record and Skynet could have gotten that info when they looked into Sarah and John's files.

[defyingravity07]

Posted: 5/25/09 at 9:21pm

All the records were destroyed in Judgement Day.

[spiderdj82]

Posted: 5/25/09 at 9:27pm

CyberNet had control of all files. Yes, the files on the computer system in the mental institution was destroyed but Cybernet or Cyberdine (whatever) had all of that.

[defyingravity07]

Posted: 5/25/09 at 9:29pm

Cyberdyne

[spiderdj82]

Posted: 5/25/09 at 10:02pm

Thank you! I couldn't remember. lol

[Taryn]

Posted: 5/25/09 at 10:13pm

Well, in T2, while Sarah was in the mental institution she told the Psychiatrist her story about the future, Kyle, etc. It's in her record and Skynet could have gotten that info when they looked into Sarah and John's files.

Defyinggravity's right about the records being destroyed. Or at least they should have been, as shown by the first Terminator. In the first film, the Terminator (and hence, Skynet) only know Sarah Connor's name and the city she lives in. Kyle Reese says the most records were destroyed. It seems odd that they would have Kyle Reese's name but not Sarah Connor's address, which would have been much more publically available.

Of course, this all doesn't make much sense when, in this latest film, Marcus can find EVERY FILE EVER about his life in the Skynet files.

And it's Skynet, not Cyberdyne. Cyberdyne was the company that recovered the Terminator arm and chip from the first movie and DEVELOPED Skynet. But Skynet is the actual network that turns against humans.

[defyingravity07]

Posted: 5/26/09 at 6:11pm

Of course, this all doesn't make much sense when, in this latest film, Marcus can find EVERY FILE EVER about his life in the Skynet files.

Cyberdyne had control of his body since 2003 BEFORE Judgement Day. Skynet could have collected those & saved them to it's own mainframe.

[Taryn]

Posted: 5/26/09 at 8:08pm

Cyberdyne had control of his body since 2003 BEFORE Judgement Day. Skynet could have collected those & saved them to it's own mainframe.

That does make sense, defyinggravity, thanks. Still haven't heard a satisfactory explanation about their knowledge of Kyle Reese and John Connor, sadly.

[defyingravity07]

Posted: 5/26/09 at 8:23pm

I don't know about that. There was a theory thrown around IMDB, but that board moves so quickly that I can't find it.

Here is a Q&A with McG about Salvation.

Q: Is the footage of Arnold as the Terminator actually taken from the first film? - Donna Haynes

McG: That was done by scanning pictures of Arnold Schwarzenegger from that period, taking the scans from that original picture and studying the original film on a very minute level. But that was created synthetically, in the spirit of "Benjamin Button" or "Forrest Gump," and that was our offering to the visual-effects world. That's a synthetic character that we worked very, very diligently on and that ILM created.

Q: How come lava melted a T-800 in "T2," but it doesn't in "Salvation"? - Germain Lussier

McG: That's not lava. There are different characteristics of molten steels, and that was an earlier steel process after it had been separated from the coke. We went over this with a metallurgist, discussing which metals burn at which degrees. And also, if it had stayed on [the T-800], perhaps it would've melted him, but it was frozen quickly enough by the [liquid nitrogen]. Plus, we make the transition from the molten metal to the cooling property so quickly ? as a function of the T-800 being on [John] Connor ? that it wouldn't have had time to melt the existing titanium exoskeleton in time.

Q: If there are sequels, will you follow what was said in "T3" in regards to John Connor being killed by a T-850? - Franco Portaro

McG: Likely, yes. There's a lot of value in the mythology put forward in "T3." Listen, I respect [director Jonathan] Mostow and everything ? it's hard to make three good movies. Look at "Godfather 3." It's trash.

Q: When Marcus is inside Skynet and learning about how he was created, the visage of Dr. Serena Kogan mentions that he's managed to do something that none of the other Terminators have been able to. Is Skynet aware of the alternate futures and other events that have taken place? - Pierce Arner

McG: Skynet is aware of the alternate futures, and the way that we play it is in the spirit of parallel worlds, as theorized by Einstein. We try to pay attention to that approach to a fundamentally theoretical construct. So yes, they are aware of the other attempts on the life of John Connor, and they've always subscribed to a bigger-gun philosophy, from the T-800 to the T-1000 to the TX. Now they've decided to bring in a machine with enough humanity in it to properly infiltrate the Resistance and lure John Connor to their lair. That's why Serena speaks of thinking differently, thinking radically.

Q: What did Marcus do to earn his death sentence in 2003? - Jack Richlin

McG: He was a car thief that took his brother along for the first time. His brother panicked when the police showed up. Marcus ended up killing the police officers, and his brother was shot in the melee. So his brother and the police officers are dead, he's very down on himself, and he's the type of character who would never appeal the death sentence. Which is why he made the choice he did to accept death. ... We didn't shoot [the scene], although we always talked about it. I even storyboarded it; in fact, I'm going to put the storyboards into the DVD.

[Taryn]

Posted: 5/26/09 at 8:31pm

McG: Skynet is aware of the alternate futures, and the way that we play it is in the spirit of parallel worlds, as theorized by Einstein. We try to pay attention to that approach to a fundamentally theoretical construct. So yes, they are aware of the other attempts on the life of John Connor, and they've always subscribed to a bigger-gun philosophy, from the T-800 to the T-1000 to the TX. Now they've decided to bring in a machine with enough humanity in it to properly infiltrate the Resistance and lure John Connor to their lair. That's why Serena speaks of thinking differently, thinking radically.

That...doesn't really do anything to explain anything. WHY would they be aware of these parallel worlds?

[defyingravity07]

Posted: 5/29/09 at 6:24pm

A pretty lengthy article about the original script.

http://chud.com/articles/articles/19577/1/EXCLUSIVE-WHAT-WENT-WRONG-WITH-TERMINATOR-SALVATION/Page1.html

"This article, while about an alternate version of Terminator Salvation, does contain spoilers for the version in theaters now..."

Artwork from the original script of Serena, as a cyborg like Marcus.


Updated On: 5/29/09 at 06:24 PM

[broadwayman17]

Posted: 5/29/09 at 7:54pm

Also this article is about McG's original and much of a bummer ending (major spoilers) http://hollywoodinsider.ew.com/2009/05/the-terminator.html

[defyingravity07]

Posted: 5/29/09 at 8:04pm

I much prefer the original script. Connor not showing up until the end & getting shot & killed is a much better ending. But Christian "It's F*cking Distracting!" Bale had to have a bigger role.

[Taryn]

Posted: 5/29/09 at 10:51pm

But Christian "It's F*cking Distracting!" Bale had to have a bigger role.

I mean, it's not like they cast him and then he demanded they enlarge the role. He saw the original script and wasn't really interested. McG just really wanted him and altered the script to tempt him. It's a bit different.

[defyingravity07]

Posted: 5/30/09 at 1:47am

McG went after him to play Marcus who was a big role. But no, he wanted Connor AND a large "physical" role.

[Taryn]

Posted: 5/30/09 at 2:58am

McG went after him to play Marcus who was a big role. But no, he wanted Connor AND a large "physical" role.

And they could have gone for a different actor. There's plenty out there. Christian Bale has a VERY strong body of work (with a flew flubs here and there) and there's no reason for him not to be picky about what movies he does. He wasn't interested in their initial and they wanted him enough to change things and chase him instead of considering another actor. If you want to blame people for the script changes, blame whoever was set on getting Christian Bale.