Wicked - What Do People Have Against It?

[Mattbrain]

Posted: 5/15/09 at 5:33pm

I admit, I am a fan of Wicked and was admittedly obsessed with it when it first came out until Piazza set me straight. But I was aware of the mixed reception of the show at the time. But I've never really understood people's exact problems with it. I've heard that there are major problems with the book and, frankly, if you told me it was overproduced, I'd agree with you. I'm surprised that that dragon alone perched on the proscenium didn't put the producers in the poor house. So what exactly are people's problems with the show and where specifically do these faults with the book lie?

[Elphaba3]

Posted: 5/15/09 at 5:45pm

I've seen Wicked 12 times so I obviously love it, but it has some major flaws. The choreography is a joke, as are parts of the book and some of the lyrics.

[Pianolin717]

Posted: 5/15/09 at 5:47pm

OK, I have FINALLY seen Wicked! I saw it last night on tour. My friend and I won the lotto seats. I enjoyed it, I'm not going to lie, but it seriously had a bunch of flaws.

1) Lack of character development. My friend and I both read the book and agreed there is barely any character development. Where is this love between Elphaba and Fiyero coming from? It seemed too random. Then, Nessa. She is severely underdeveloped. Dr. Dillamond, well, he was just ok. They should have developed him more than they did, but they just didn't have time, obviously.

2) The cat fight scene. Seriously? A lot of the dialogue seemed too "teenager" and typical cattiness. It could have been better.

A lot of things just seemed rushed, but, I still enjoyed it. The lights were pretty spectacular.

OH! The lyrics. Some of the lyrics really lacked. And a few of the songs are just plain bad.

Random side note. At the beginning of One Short Day, when Elphaba and Galinda come on and sing, well, they didn't come on. They sang, but they weren't on stage, and they ran on halfway through. Well, come to find out, Marcie didn't have her dress zipped up. So the whole time, she had her hand behind her back holding it together, except for when she was using both hands to dance.
Also, I understand that the cherry pick used during Defying Gravity is MUCH safer, but it seemed a little tacky. You can clearly see the outline of the bucket.
And question, during Thank Goodness, when Glinda first comes on, and she raises her arms, that is an homage to Evita, correct? I told my friend but she refuses to believe me.

Still, it was a spectacle and I am glad I saw it.

[tourboi]

Posted: 5/15/09 at 5:47pm

I only know what my problems with the show are, but they include:

-Book issues galore.
-Direction issues (tying in with the book issues)... why is the Dragon never really explained? How is it relevant in the show? If I hadn't read the book I'd be confused.
-Clockworks are so significant in the design, but never really explained WHY clocks are so important in Oz.
-Score. I love some Schwartz but this score makes me sad. there are a handful of good songs, and clever lyrics, but most are phoned in and banal. Defying Gravity is really an over written, and over sung most of the time, song. Something Bad is just... well, bad. The rest of the score doesn't do much for me. I do like Popular, I'm Not That Girl, and For Good. But that's just my opinion.
-Why at the end of Defying Gravity does she just lift and SIT THERE! It's so uninspiring. She should be flying all over the place like they did in EASTWICK.
-Final Act One lyrics: Look at her she's wicked, GET HER! No one mourns the Wicked, so we've got to bring her down. Schwartz has gone out of his way to make up cute and quirky lyrics that RHYME through the whole show, then we get this awful moment of shouted lyrics that don't rhyme and just sound awful.

And yes, it's over-produced.

Why it's a huge hit, I don't know. I suppose it's easily accessible because of its original source material. But I still think it's poorly written, and staged.

Mind you, that's only my opinion.

[Mattbrain]

Posted: 5/15/09 at 5:49pm

Oh yeah some of the lyrics make me cringe. "Magic grand vizier"...yeesh.

Well, yeah, tourboi, that's what I'm interested in hearing: people's opinions.

Posted: 5/15/09 at 5:56pm

People hate it because it's successful. If it had run 4 weeks and closed at a total loss the same exact people would line up to say it was the greatest show ever.

[defyingravity07]

Posted: 5/15/09 at 5:56pm

Piano, there is no "Bucket". It's just a ring that closes around them with a false skirt attached.



-Direction issues (tying in with the book issues)... why is the Dragon never really explained? How is it relevant in the show? If I hadn't read the book I'd be confused.
-Clockworks are so significant in the design, but never really explained WHY clocks are so important in Oz.

The show set in the traveling "Time Dragon Clock" from the book. The cogs are, as David Platt put it, the symbol of the inerworkings of O. The wizard isn't magical & everything is smoke & mirrors.
Updated On: 5/15/09 at 05:56 PM

[Pianolin717]

Posted: 5/15/09 at 5:58pm

are you sure? Because I thought they said that for the tour they switched to a cherry picker

[Mattbrain]

Posted: 5/15/09 at 6:00pm

I think they just call it the cherry picker, don't they?

[CurtainPullDowner]

Posted: 5/15/09 at 6:01pm

I have nothing against it.
I have enjoyed it three times.

[defyingravity07]

Posted: 5/15/09 at 6:02pm

Yeah, it's just a lift.

SJB explaining it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKDnWuCw_2g

[Weez]

Posted: 5/15/09 at 6:09pm

I genuinely really enjoy Wicked. But I'm reluctant to put myself in a position where people may inadvertantly assume that this makes me a howling moron who deifies women who belt while green, so I won't always be so frank about admitting that.

Plus, y'know, it's kinda painful to see just how much the novel was watered down - from a really interesting political work with lots of great insight and imagination, to a cliched love triangle story with the depth of single-ply toilet paper.

[dramamama611]

Posted: 5/15/09 at 6:09pm

I loved it when it first opened...so much that I didn't want to see again...afraid it would ruin the "magical experience".

I finally took my kids to see it just a month or two ago. I was relatively bored. The book was whitewashed, the lyrics are forced, and its all bells and whistles. Spectacle without much substance.

I also agree with the other poster's comment about lack of character developement.

I also see how so many folks enjoy it.

[Sauja]

Posted: 5/15/09 at 6:14pm

It is especially easy for dislike to turn to hatred the longer a show runs. You go from, "I don't get the fuss," to "Why does everyone love this thing?" to "Oh man, it's the worst show EVER."

Personally, I just didn't love Wicked. I don't hate it. I think there are some really wonderful aspects, and I found myself unexpectedly moved by pieces of it. That said, I didn't enjoy the score. I'm not a big Schwartz fan to begin with, but for me the songs were either unmemorable or overwritten. Or "Popular." I loved "Popular."

I disliked the set immensely. I just found it really unappealing to look at. Totally a matter of personal taste (just as the score is).

But I think the thing that really put me off was the ending. It felt like a cop out. Even if it is how the book ends. I felt like Kathy Bates in Misery. "They cheated us! This isn't fair! He didn't get out of the cockadoodie car!" Apologies for the obscure reference.

Yet my single biggest complaint about the show comes down to what I suspect is many people's favorite moment (based only on hearsay). I simply can't stand "Defying Gravity." I'll admit it--I hate that song. Listening to it, all I can think is, "Please stop screeching. Please. Stop. Please."

All of that said, I still think there's a lot to enjoy there, and I see the appeal. Just not my cup of tea.

[provocation]

Posted: 5/15/09 at 6:19pm

Piano, it is an homage to Evita. :]

[Weez]

Posted: 5/15/09 at 6:23pm

Uh, the book *didn't* end that way, and Misery is an obscure reference now? Since when? Am I getting old? D:

[Mattbrain]

Posted: 5/15/09 at 6:26pm

I'm actually able to enjoy both the novel and the show as completely separate works.

[Pianolin717]

Posted: 5/15/09 at 6:28pm

provocation - Thanks! that is exactly what I thought, but my friend REFUSED to believe me, even when I explained it to her lol

And yeah, the ending was cute... but Elphaba dies. Thats it, she does NOT come back. I would have liked it better if they left it at that.

[Mr Roxy]

Posted: 5/15/09 at 6:29pm

Its enjoyable but it ain't the greatest show that ever came down the Pike

Truth be told, I enjoyed Shrek much more.

[SNAFU]

Posted: 5/15/09 at 6:31pm

No that is not how the book ends! Far from it.
Personally, I liked Eugene Lee's gear motif. The inner workings of a story you know only one side of. The tin shed behind the facade at Disney World so to speak. It is dark and ominous and makes that huge stage at the Gershwin almost intimate. Why should it be explained?
Now the lyrics and music are another story. I wish there were songs with a similar darkness and ominous danger. All we get is:"Something Bad is HAppening in Oz" kinda of spoon feeding it to you. Fluff with laughable rhymes.
It is not a great show, but not terrible either (except perhaps terribly popular and lucrative). It will be around for a good long time.

[Sauja]

Posted: 5/15/09 at 6:34pm

I was lied to! Okay--color me corrected. I haven't actually read the book but was told that they had the same ending. Regardless, still not a fan.

And Weez, Misery came out 18 years ago. I thought I'd call it obscure rather than have other people tell me I'm old for quoting it. :)

[Mattbrain]

Posted: 5/15/09 at 6:35pm

Ok, my honest thoughts:

When I first saw it on the Tonys, bought the CD and left the theater (I've only seen it once), I was over the moon. I thought the show itself was very funny/moving. I don't really read too much into whatever flaws the book might have when I'm seeing a show. I just take it for what it is (wow, imagine if I had seen Dance of the Vampires with that outlook). I don't really pick shows apart until much MUCH later. Now, it's probably one of the least played cast recordings on my iPod. So I enjoyed it overall but until I read the novel, I did not understand the clock motif in the set or the Time Dragon. Ok, I understood the Dragon when they explained it in the show but clearly, unless you've read the novel, you won't understand the clock.

[D2]

Posted: 5/15/09 at 6:38pm

Weez hit the nail on the head: it has been "watered down - from a really interesting political work with lots of great insight and imagination, to a cliched love triangle story with the depth of single-ply toilet paper."

Which is, of course, why it is so wildly "pop-u-ular."

[SNAFU]

Posted: 5/15/09 at 6:46pm

...and Glinda and Elphaba had very little interaction in the book.

[legally_popular]

Posted: 5/15/09 at 6:48pm

Weez hit the nail on the head: it has been "watered down - from a really interesting political work with lots of great insight and imagination, to a cliched love triangle story with the depth of single-ply toilet paper."

Agreed. Plus, a lot of the character development and plot are ruined in favor of some cheap references to The Wizard of Oz. Audiences eat them up. And some of the dialogue and lyrics (not just the references) make me cringe.

I like the show, but can't stand people who think it's the greatest thing ever.