Lincoln Center Archives of Shows

[AlanAntonio]

Posted: 12/30/06 at 12:30am

What happens after Lincoln Center records a show for its archives?
Why have they, in partnership with the show's producers, not released them for sale to and enjoyment of the public? I am not sure if they have before, but is there somehow a way to see Broadway treasures in their archives?

[CapnHook]

Posted: 12/30/06 at 12:35am

If you get an access card you can visit the library and view them for free. I'm sure someone who knows better than I can give you details. It's also on their website.

As for WHY they are not being released onto DVD: they wouldn't make a profit. Plus, it's also a matter of rights and royalties.

[dramaqueen2]

Posted: 12/30/06 at 12:58am

hm, i'd like to check that out..
thanks!

[TWSFan4Ever]

Posted: 12/30/06 at 8:28am

What is their website? I can't find it (googling...).

[Yankeefan007]

Posted: 12/30/06 at 8:58am

The LC archives are solely for educational purposes. The shows are recorded and edited with movie-like precision, for the best quality copy. The only people allowed to view them are those who have a good enough reason - you're doing a paper for school, starring in/directing a new production, etc. You are only allowed to watch them once in your life and you need a specific NY Public Library Research Access Card.

Google "CATNYP" and you'll come up with he catelogue.

Posted: 12/30/06 at 9:23am

Hrmm from the ones I've been fortunate enough to see I'd say "movie like precision" is overstating things--although I'm sure the more recent digital ones are more impressive.

Still we're VERY lucky they're doing this. Why aren't they released commercially? Basically the rights that would have to be optained and money paid to those involved for a commercial release would be crippling to have most these works filmed--sad to say. The once in your life rule is not reinforced--at least in my experience though I believe that's the original intent. It seems at different periods the tightness on watching these pieces has been stronger or lesser...

(and of course some copies are even harder to watch--for a while recently anyway you needed approval by book writer Goldman's widow to watch any of the copies of Follies, even though sadly all they have of the original are some home movie excerpts for example)

The catalog is pretty incredible--I'd kill to see one of their earliest tapes--the original production of Company in its first tour, even in B&W

[Yankeefan007]

Posted: 12/30/06 at 9:28am

The recent digital ones are VERY impressive. I expected horrible sound quality and it was quite the opposite.

Posted: 12/30/06 at 9:33am

I hope all the past videos get converted to digital for posterity. (If they aren';t already)

I think often the sound is a recording direct from the sound mixer (umm mixing board? you know what I mean) so it can be surprisingly great.

It's too bad they missed some shows though when they were first starting--I'd kill to know there was a recording of Night Music showing Aronson's plexiglass birch trees creating cinematic disolves, or of course Follies... I think for their earliest Colour recording of a Sondheim show they simply use the Japanese televised recording of Pacific Overtures (which was rumoured to be getting a commercial DVD release a fewyears ago but seems to have gone the way of most of the other promised Sondheim Anniversary stuff)

[BrodyFosse123]

Posted: 12/30/06 at 9:46am

Unfortunately, none of Bob Fosse's works were ever filmed per his choice -- he stated that a 'live' performance needs to be experienced in a theatre, not via a videotape, etc. Too bad he couldn't see beyond that fact. He was also quite limited to notating the staging and choreography of his work, which is what prompted Chet Walker and Gwen Verdon to start notating all this in the late 80's before all those who remembered these things were gone. This, of course, gave them the idea of showcasing some of Bob Fosse's works in FOSSE (after the success of Jerome Robbin's BROADWAY).

[Gothampc]

Posted: 12/30/06 at 9:47am

"It's too bad they missed some shows though when they were first starting"

I worked at the archives for awhile. They had a very difficult time getting started. Even the NYPL wouldn't give them much support. There were a lot of hurdles they had to overcome. They had to convince all of the unions, authors, directors and designers that the videos would be under tight control. They had (and still have to) convince actors to commit to doing the taping. Many actors are concerned that this will be "the" defining copy of their performance and what happens if they are having an off night.

Posted: 12/30/06 at 9:51am

WOw--ya it truly is something that the more you think about, at the time, the more complex the hurdles are, you realize. Of course 30 years after the fact we can all be happy that these are out there recorded, even if tightly guarded but it's more complicated at the time.

I thought I had read something similar about Fosse's shows which is sad being a huge fan--I guess we're lucky for the clips that did get out (and they're rare-60s Ed Sullivan clips from Charity and Little Me are some of the rarer things I've seen not to mention his 50s variety show for Bob Abbott). I guess the edited, badly filmed commercial Pippin is the best we'll get of that show in its original (kinda) production. I believe that the theatre archives does house a bootleg someone involved with the show made of Big Deal (just like how their early follies clips are from other home movies technically called bootlegs)

E

[BrodyFosse123]

Posted: 12/30/06 at 10:00am

The videotape of Bob Fosse's BIG DEAL isn't a camcorder bootleg level video since it was shot on a tripod from the back of the house, so it obviously was an inside job via someone involved with the actual production. It's a static full-stage shot and starts right before the house lights dim to right when the house lights come back on after the final curtain call, so it's an entire performance.

[SeanMartin]

Posted: 12/30/06 at 3:31pm

>> The only people allowed to view them are those who have a good enough reason

Not true. I've availed the archives several times during trips to NY, and all I had to do was simply ask for a particular title. There has never been any questioning about *why* I wanted to see it.

Insofar as "precision-like editing", it depends on the production, of course. Some of them are, almost as though the producers thought there might be a commercial release possible. Others are clearly rehearsal tapes, some are even worse. The COMPANY tape isnt even the original NY production, but a touring one.

Posted: 12/30/06 at 9:42pm

Ya I was able to see the recording of Big Deal (some of which is undeniably spectacular) so know it was a tripod shot, but it certainly was not filmed as well as legit/typical Lincoln Center archive tapes

Sean I think I mentioned that the COmpany was a tour (with Stritch still though I think--not sure if Chikiris was the lead or not) which also had a slightly modified version of Aronson's set but according to the videography at the back of Mendelbaum's book on Michael Bennett it's worth it to see McKechnie do tick tock
I've heard the same that usually it's very easy to get to view a tape although technically I think you are meant to have one of the "legit" reasons mentioned above--and I know that certain shows--like Follies at least shortly after James' death, were specifically harder to see

E

[winston89]

Posted: 12/30/06 at 10:01pm

I do think that you need a reason to watch them. My director and I were talking bout how we hate how they are the ones to judge weather or not your reason is good enough or not. Usually, the job of a libary is to give you free access to information not to limit it. We were both venting bout how just cus they think there Lincoln Center means they are better then everyone else. Also, in regards to the once in your life rule that comes to watching a video. I think that the rule in fact does exist however it may change depending on who is in charge that day. In other words, the person watching that department might be nice or whatever.

However, If you do go. You need to make an appointment.

[Gothampc]

Posted: 12/30/06 at 11:59pm

"My director and I were talking bout how we hate how they are the ones to judge weather or not your reason is good enough or not."

Especially annoying is that the majority of this is paid for by taxpayer money.

[myManCape]

Posted: 12/31/06 at 12:36am

"Located in the heart of the Lincoln Center complex on Manhattan's Upper West Side, the Billy Rose Theatre Collection is housed on the third floor of the Performing Arts Library, along with the music, recorded sound. and dance research collections. Its Katharine Cornell-Guthrie McClintic Room and Lucille Lortel Room provide facilities for studying rare materials, and films and videotapes, respectively. Staff members, knowledgeable in all aspects of theatre history, are available to assist users in their research. Materials are retrieved from closed stacks upon receipt of a call slip. All materials are noncirculating and must be studied on the premises."

"Theatre on Film and Tape
The Lucille Lortel Room, adjacent to the main reading room, houses the Theatre on Film and Tape Archive. Material is listed under production title, author, theatre company, and dialogue participants. Advance appointments are required for viewing Users may telephone TOFT to ascertain tape availability. Please call [phone]."

[Ourtime992]

Posted: 12/31/06 at 1:05am

I have a great story about being escorted from the premises after being denied access to the library a few months before starting college. Like an idiot, when the woman at the desk asked what school I was coming from, I questioned whether she needed the college I was about to start or the high school I was just finishing. She told me the library was for college students and professionals only. Probably for good reason. I got really upset and laid into her. No yelling, but I was upset. Next thing I knew two guys were escorted me outside. It's been more than a decade, but ah, the memories. I have since visited 4 or 5 times. Incidentally, none of my "legit" visits have been any more legit than that first one.

[SeanMartin]

Posted: 12/31/06 at 3:04pm

>> You need to make an appointment

Again, that's never been an issue for me. I've walked in, cruised the catalogue, told the nice man behind the counter what I wanted to see, and he directed me to a desk for viewing. No appointment. Either I have this whole "I'm terribly important so do it NOW" face (which I kinda doubt) or they're lax on their own rules.

The COMPANY tape BTW also suffers from lousy sound and a smaller orchestra. But it's about all we have, so I guess until a bootleg film emerges, it'll have to do till something better comes along.

[SporkGoddess]

Posted: 12/31/06 at 3:52pm

I'd kill to see the Parade video.

[wickedrentq]

Posted: 12/31/06 at 3:57pm

The one-view-per-lifetime rule exists, as far as I know, for copyright purposes. Like if a person watches a production more than once, he/she might try to copy the set or staging or something. Same reason rules permitting taking pictures of stages exist.

[StephenSondheimWHOO]

Posted: 12/31/06 at 3:59pm

Is there a list online of all the shows they have? and how do you get an Acess card?

[BroadwayGirl107]

Posted: 12/31/06 at 4:06pm

The once in your lifetime rule, if it does infact exist, seems a little silly. If these videos are for research purposes, could the library actually think that someone studying the particular show or production could get every bit of information they need from one viewing of the tape? What if you write a paper about a production and then, later in your schooling, need to view it for a different aspect?

Anyway, the day I went, the people at the desk were really strict. They had me write down my school I go to, the specific class I was doing it for, and what exactly I was writing the paper about (though I'm assuming they never checked up on any of this as they never even asked for my ID). They also told me that I could rewind if I wanted to, but I was only allowed the amount of time the actual show took up, so I could miss out on the end. They didn't follow through with that, though, as I rewound a LOT (I needed very specific notes for the project I was doing).

I guess it really depends on who's there when you watch.


EDIT: Also, you don't need an ACCESS card to watch the videos. They never asked for mine.
Updated On: 12/31/06 at 04:06 PM

[SeanMartin]

Posted: 1/1/07 at 7:02am

They did ask for mine. I guess that too must be something that depends on who's sitting behind the desk.

>> I think I mentioned that the COmpany was a tour

Yes you did, and my apologies for not seeing it earlier.

[SweeneyPhanatic]

Posted: 1/1/07 at 12:43pm

Any chance they have "Carrie" in the archives?