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Manhattan Concert Productions to do "Scarlet Pimpernell" next year! - Page 8

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Mister Matt
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joined:5/17/03
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Manhattan Concert Productions to do

#176
Posted: 2/19/19 at 5:19pm

I just wish they had stuck with version 1.0, which was utterly delightful and by far, the most poignant and entertaining of the versions I've seen.  The only nitpick I had with 1.0 was You Are My Home, but I just never felt the song really worked in the show at all.  I sort of wish they could have used a revised version of Home Again for that prison scene utilizing the ensemble.

"What can you expect from a bunch of seitan worshippers?" - Reginald Tresilian
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Scarlet Leigh
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joined:4/18/13
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#177
Posted: 2/19/19 at 5:28pm

Mister Matt said: "I just wish they had stuck with version 1.0, which was utterly delightful and by far, the most poignant and entertaining of the versions I've seen. The only nitpick I had with 1.0 was You Are My Home, but I just never felt the song really worked in the show at all. I sort of wish they could have used a revised version of Home Again for that prison scene utilizing the ensemble."

The only thing about version 1.0 though was the terrible ending. Again, I don't know if maybe I saw it in previews or what but the guillotine was NOT a "working" one the first time I saw the show. It was seen in act 1 in the opening and for Falcon in the Dive as well as rolled out during The Riddle... but it was never used in act 2. There was a lighting effect that cast the shadow of a guillotine on the backdrop that suggested that there was one just off stage. So when it can time to cut off their heads (cus in version one they took all three of them to the guillotine not just Percy) it was just a bunch of yelling lines from off stage as Terrance Mann looked off in that direction. It was bad. It was really bad. I would take a thousand poorly placed songs but with the revised/current ending over the 1.0 version ending any day.

Annette170
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#178
Posted: 2/19/19 at 5:58pm

Scarlet Leigh said: "Mister Matt said: "I just wish they had stuck with version 1.0, which was utterly delightful and by far, the most poignant and entertaining of the versions I've seen. The only nitpick I had with 1.0 was You Are My Home, but I just never felt the song really worked in the show at all. I sort of wish they could have used a revised version of Home Again for that prison scene utilizing the ensemble."

The only thing about version 1.0 though was the terrible ending. Again, I don't know if maybe I saw it in previews or what but the guillotine was NOT a "working" one the first time I saw the show. It was seen in act 1 in the opening and for Falcon in the Dive as well as rolled out during The Riddle... but it was never used in act 2. There was a lighting effect that cast the shadow of a guillotine on the backdrop that suggested that there was one just off stage. So when it can time to cut off their heads (cus in version one they took all three of them to the guillotine not just Percy) it was just a bunch of yelling lines from off stage as Terrance Mann looked off in that direction. It was bad. It was really bad. I would take a thousand poorly placed songs but with the revised/current ending over the 1.0 version ending any day.
"

I don’t remember this from the show. I saw 1.0 and maybe I don’t remember because I was in a trance over Terrance Mann

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CATSNYrevival
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#179
Posted: 2/19/19 at 6:22pm
I’ve been curious to know more about 1.0. I’ve always assumed the book was mostly the same and they just moved some songs around, cut some, and added others but it seems the book changed a great deal too. I can’t speak for the new finale and I’ll miss “I’ll Forget You,” but I’m glad Nan put “Believe” and “You Are My Home” back in their original slots.
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Scarlet Leigh
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#180
Posted: 2/19/19 at 7:03pm

Annette170 said: "I don’t remember this from the show. I saw 1.0 and maybe I don’t remember because I was in a trance over Terrance Mann"

Yeeeeah that would distract me as well. It DID distract me the 2 times I saw him in the show. I KNOW that was how it ended the first time I saw it. And I KNOW that I saw the revised ending the 3rd time I saw it as that was at the second theatre then. I for the life of me now though can NOT recall what the ending was that second time. It was still at the Minskoff but before they reworked it as Terrance Mann was still in the show (but I had the Percy understudy). 

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CATSNYrevival
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#181
Posted: 2/19/19 at 10:46pm

Was the 1.0 ending basically the same just staged without a working guillotine or was it completely different?

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Scarlet Leigh
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#182
Posted: 2/19/19 at 11:36pm

CATSNYrevival said: "Was the 1.0 ending basically the same just staged without a working guillotine or was it completely different?"

Kinda? Everything was the same until the after the duel. Percy still looses but then all three of them (Percy, Marguerite, and Armand) are sentenced to beheading and are taken off stage. Everything is then done in voice over and sound effects. First Armand, then Marguerite, then Percy. A sound effect of the blade falling with each one as screams. The only ones on stage during it are Chauvlin and the guards. He sends his men off to report it and asks that the heads be brought to him. A guard brings the basket on stage and he starts to talk to the heads, saying goodbye to Marguerite when Percy reenters and tells him to say good by to all of her and she re-enters as well. The scene then goes on as it is from 2.0 onward.

Another notable thing about version 1.0 is that they keep the fact that Percy is also Grappin a secret until he reveals himself in the last scene. He plays the part 100% serious and you wonder how he knows so much including about the ring. You never see Percy in half disguise so it's a surprise reveal.

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Scarlet Leigh
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#183
Posted: 2/19/19 at 11:50pm

Oh Oh Oh! And another 1.0 tidbit! The rescue sequence between Into the Fire and Falcon in the Dive use to be a FULL SCENE with dialogue and NOT a montage of various rescue missions. It was the execution they save Marie from. One of them league of the Pimpernel pretends to be stricken with plague and causes a panic as everyone runs off and resulted in one of my favorite lost bits of dialogue. As everyone is in a panic, the league member is yelling "Plague! Plague! Plague for sale!" Ultimately only he and the man that was to be executed next are left on stage, the man still standing on the platform in shock, and the league member looks at him and says "Well run you stupid bastard, you're free!" and the man jumps down and runs off stage.

I am trying to remember any more changes. I really did love version 1.0 but it was played a bit to serious. When they loosened it up in the later versions and didn't make it as dramatic, it worked much better.

Annette170
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#184
Posted: 2/20/19 at 6:01am

Scarlet Leigh said: "Oh Oh Oh! And another 1.0 tidbit! The rescue sequence between Into the Fire and Falcon in the Dive use to be a FULL SCENE with dialogue and NOT a montage of various rescue missions. It was the executionthey save Marie from. One of them league of the Pimpernel pretends to be stricken with plague and causes a panic as everyone runs off and resulted in one of my favorite lost bits of dialogue. As everyone is in a panic, the league member is yelling "Plague! Plague! Plague for sale!" Ultimately only he and the man that was to be executed next are left on stage, the man still standing on the platform in shock, and the league member looks at him and says "Well run you stupid bastard, you're free!" and the man jumps down and runs off stage.

I am trying to remember any more changes. I really did love version 1.0 but it was played a bit to serious. When they loosened it up in the later versions and didn't make it as dramatic, it worked much better.
"

I saw this show three times in its first year of running. Saw it twice (1.0)with Doug Sills and Terrace Mann and then third time with (2.0)Rex Smith (Terrance Mann will always be that role for me). First two shows with the original cast was a lot better than my 3rd time. Doug Sills was amazing. His voice was beautiful and he was also hilarious.Terrance Mann was sexy as hell in that role and when he would sing “Where’s the girl” and come to be part I’m the song where he said “Marguerite”...his voice gave me chills.  What I loved about that original cast was they (I should say Doug) would break character every now and again and speak to the Audience and had everyone laughing. It was never during a very important serious part but somehow it just worked. By my third time (2.0)they changed cast and it was just ok. After 2.0 came out it didn’t last long and I was sad to see it go. I never returned for a 4th time. I wanted the original cast to me by memory. 

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Wick3
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#185
Posted: 2/20/19 at 8:35am

Annette170 said: " I wanted the original castto me by memory."

I know how you feel. The last time I saw Dear Evan Hansen was back in Nov 2017 just for that same reason.

BTW, I didn't realize how much a comedy this musical was until I saw the concert. In the late 90s I recall listening to the CD cast album but didn't really catch the comedic elements as much (hence why it's always better to go see live theater!) I know it's not a fully staged production but I'm still glad I got to see this concert! 

Is there a possible revival in the works for Scarlet Pimpernel either off-bway or on bway? 

Emmaloucbway
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#186
Posted: 2/20/19 at 9:59am

Wick3 said: "Annette170 said: "I wanted the original castto me by memory."

I know how you feel. The last time I saw Dear Evan Hansen was back in Nov 2017 just for that same reason.

BTW, I didn't realize how much a comedy this musical was until I saw the concert. In the late 90s I recall listening to the CD cast album but didn't really catch the comedic elements as much (hence why it's always better to go see live theater!) I know it's not a fully staged production but I'm still glad I got to see this concert!

Is there a possible revival in the works for Scarlet Pimpernel either off-bway or on bway?
"

After seeing the concert on Monday I would love a revival!

Updated On: 2/20/19 at 09:59 AM
JennH
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#187
Posted: 2/20/19 at 10:29am

Emmaloucbway said: "Wick3 said: "Annette170 said: "I wanted the original castto me by memory."

I know how you feel. The last time I saw Dear Evan Hansen was back in Nov 2017 just for that same reason.

BTW, I didn't realize how much a comedy this musical was until I saw the concert. In the late 90s I recall listening to the CD cast album but didn't really catch the comedic elements as much (hence why it's always better to go see live theater!) I know it's not a fully staged production but I'm still glad I got to see this concert!

Is there a possible revival in the works for Scarlet Pimpernel either off-bway or on bway?
"

After seeing the concert on Monday I would love a revival!
"

Oh I think half it's comedy, was possibly Doug himself, just being Doug! That man pretty much MADE this role what it is now, and I envy anyone who saw him in it! It's obvious he had a sinful amount of fun with it, I mean who wouldn't anyway. This truly is his signature role and continues to be what people know him for today. PLEASE REVIVE IT. Since this concert was announced, I wondered if that was the idea...I think it's ready for one. I know we're in an era of revivalitis again, but this is one I could stand to see done. Of course just being a Wildhorn work could keep it from succeeding or even being done at all...BOO, because if J and H is everyone's favorite Wildhorn, Pimpernel is my second favorite, I think it's majorly under appreciated and no one does it anymore.

 

Annette170
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#188
Posted: 2/20/19 at 10:46am

JennH said: "Emmaloucbway said: "Wick3 said: "Annette170 said: "I wanted the original castto me by memory."

I know how you feel. The last time I saw Dear Evan Hansen was back in Nov 2017 just for that same reason.

BTW, I didn't realize how much a comedy this musical was until I saw the concert. In the late 90s I recall listening to the CD cast album but didn't really catch the comedic elements as much (hence why it's always better to go see live theater!) I know it's not a fully staged production but I'm still glad I got to see this concert!

Is there a possible revival in the works for Scarlet Pimpernel either off-bway or on bway?
"

After seeing the concert on Monday I would love a revival!
"

Oh I think half it's comedy, was possibly Doug himself, just being Doug! That man pretty much MADE this role what it is now, and I envy anyone who saw him in it! It's obvious hehad a sinful amount of fun with it, I mean who wouldn't anyway.This truly is his signature role and continues to be what people know him for today. PLEASE REVIVE IT. Since this concert was announced, I wondered if that was the idea...I think it's ready for one. I know we're in an era of revivalitis again, but this is one I could stand to see done. Of course just being a Wildhorn work could keep it from succeeding oreven being done at all...BOO, because if J and H is everyone's favorite Wildhorn, Pimpernel is my second favorite, I think it's majorly under appreciated and no one does it anymore.


"

 I would love for them to revive pimpernel especially with Doug Sills.  He is the reason I saw it three times. I also love Jekyll and Hyde  Robert Cuccioli and Linda Eder were great!! I saw them in it a few times too. 

 What did you mean by “ just being a wildhorn work could keep it from succeeding or even being done at all” ?  I do hope they revive Pimpernel sooner than later. 

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LizzieCurry
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#189
Posted: 2/20/19 at 10:54am
Pimpernel can exist without Doug Sills. And I say this as someone who did see him (on tour).
"This thread reads like a series of White House memos." — Mister Matt
JennH
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#190
Posted: 2/20/19 at 11:07am

Annette170-What I mean is that Wildhorn shows have never been been a huge hit. None of his shows have really had long runs, one only needs to look at his show history. J an H one can argue was a "hit" as it ran almost four years, but it also was one that suffered from many different rewrites and restructuring and has about 3 versions of it. Pimpernel has twice that many rewrite versions and ran just over two years. Wildhorn is considered a bit of a hack in the MT world likely due to his unspecific way of writing music and while I can see why, I think his stuff is under appreciated. One can't deny his songs are anthemic, singers love singing them regardless. I'm no exception. Sadly just having his name attached to a project due to his history seems to be a bit of a curse for him. I've always hoped he'd have a "Schwartz" moment and FINALLY have a show that's a gargantuan hit but sadly no luck as of yet...I still hope, even some said back during Bonnie and Clyde that they were hoping that would be his redemption, so to speak, but sadly we all know what happened there. I still like his work well enough anyway. 

I also agree Pimpernel can exists without Sills. It's may be his most famous role he put such a stamp on, but I doubt even he'd want to be a part of it's revival, he's past the age for that role anyhow. 

Updated On: 2/20/19 at 11:07 AM
Annette170
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#191
Posted: 2/20/19 at 11:25am

LizzieCurry said: "Pimpernel can exist without Doug Sills. And I say this as someone who did see him (on tour)."

I’m sure it can but I’d love to see him in it once again. 

Annette170
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#192
Posted: 2/20/19 at 11:28am

JennH said: "Annette170-What I mean is that Wildhorn shows have never been been a huge hit. None of his shows have really hadlong runs, one only needs to look at his show history.J an H one can argue was a "hit" as it ran almost four years,but it also was one that suffered from many different rewrites and restructuringand has about 3 versions of it. Pimpernel has twice that many rewrite versions and ran just over two years.Wildhorn is considered a bit of a hack in the MT world likely due to his unspecific way of writing musicand while I can see why, I think his stuff is under appreciated. One can't deny his songs are anthemic, singers lovesinging them regardless. I'm no exception. Sadly just having his name attached to a project due to his history seems to be a bit of a curse for him.I've always hoped he'd have a "Schwartz" moment and FINALLY have a show that's a gargantuan hit but sadly no luck as of yet...I still hope, even some said back during Bonnie and Clyde that they were hoping thatwould be his redemption, so to speak, but sadly we all know what happened there. I still like his work well enough anyway.

I also agree Pimpernel can exists without Sills. It's may behis most famous role he put such a stamp on,but I doubt even he'd want to be a part of it's revival, he's past the age for that role anyhow.
"

Thank for the clarity on your Wildhorn comment. I had no idea. I do love his work. I’m not in this field but I do know my ears loves what he writes. There’s something so beautiful with his music. I do hope he has a big success one day. Such a shame for a talent like that to not have that one great hit. 

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Wick3
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#193
Posted: 2/20/19 at 12:20pm

I'm not an expert either but I agree I do enjoy listening to some of Wildhorn's ballads and songs from Scarlet Pimpernel.

I've been watching whatever I could find on youtube for Scarlet Pimpernel and found this clip from the Rosie show. In it Doug Sills states they spent over $1.3 million for costumes/wigs alone and that was back in the late 90s! I'm sure there are several reasons the original production did not recoup but it seems like these are high budget musicals? I'll admit if Tony Yazbeck plays Percy again, he doesn't need any wig as he looks great the way he looked at the concert! lol

 

JennH
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#194
Posted: 2/20/19 at 12:42pm

Wick3 said: "I'm not an expert either but I agree I do enjoy listening to some of Wildhorn's ballads and songs from Scarlet Pimpernel.

I've been watching whatever I could find on youtube for Scarlet Pimpernel and found this clip from the Rosie show. In it Doug Sills states they spent over $1.3 million for costumes/wigs alone and that was back in the late 90s! I'm sure there are several reasons the original production did not recoup but it seems like these are high budget musicals?I'll admit if Tony Yazbeck plays Percy again, he doesn't need any wig as he looks great the way he looked at the concert! lol


I love that video, that entire production was a damn spectacle in it's own way, and I love it! Creation of Man alone was costuming gloriousness! However as for wigs...you kinda HAVE to have them, Pimpernel is very much a period piece, it's the 1780's-1790's when English men still had the longer hair/powdered wigs. They were going out of fashion, but hadn't quite disappeared yet. Tony looks wonderful, but as a concert presentation, the lack of a wig isn't out of place but would totally be out of place in a full production.

 

"

 

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LizzieCurry
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#195
Posted: 2/20/19 at 12:44pm
I'm sure the costuming is a large part of why this show isn't better known — lots of theatres can't afford to do it.
"This thread reads like a series of White House memos." — Mister Matt
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Scarlet Leigh
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#196
Posted: 2/20/19 at 4:39pm
Re: Revival.

I would die. I would love it. I feel like they have worked it enough and perhaps might have learned enough from what works and what doesn't to make it work today as it did not in the 90s. And in and interview before the concert, Wildhorse basically said he hoped that the right people might be in the audience that night and they would see what happens. The material really is his best work and if he just puts it in the hands of a good director and a good design team, it would be a dream come true.
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CATSNYrevival
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#197
Posted: 2/20/19 at 5:55pm

It might have worked in the 90s had they done an out of town tryout, made the necessary changes between 1.0 and 2.0 out of town, and opened on Broadway with the reviews they got from version 2.0. If you go back and read the two reviews, The New York Times did a complete turn around and it went from a mixed "not spectacularly bad" to "Finally, a Dandy of a Pimpernel." but at that point it was too late for a rave from the Times to offer the help it might have had it been there on opening night.