Jason Robert Brown on How (Not) to Insult Sondheim- Page 3

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 11/1/12 at 7:54pm

Sorry that I slightly misunderstood you...

And of course--but I think that's a different case. If Sondheim had said that audiences attending previews had no right to express their opinion (and I know some feel that people shouldn't post their opinions of previews here--I disagree), or maybe even come up to him and politely say they were disappointed, I would disagree with him. But when you're an invited friend, or even an uninvited friend, I think the immediate reaction should be one of support.

[Playbilly]

Posted: 11/1/12 at 8:15pm

As a I said at the beginning, it's pretty sad if people only want "positive" feedback no matter how untrue or insincere, just to make them feel better. And that some people think that's OK ( especially on such a sophisticated site as this ). To me, it shows a level of contempt to the person who is asked. And that can be construed to preview audiences. And incredible self-centeredness by the artist. (I was going to add "insecurity", but that's a given.)

And some posters wonder "Why didn't creatives know the show was so bad?"

I'm off to the gym, can't wait to see how this progresses in the meantime. :)

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 11/1/12 at 8:56pm

I think the immediate reaction should be one of support.

In the case of the show of a friend, host or even just a friend-of-a-friend, I can't imagine starting with anything but a list of what I like about the performance.

And I do agree that Sondheim via Brown makes a good point. But the fact that the show in question was in previews makes the entire issue more complicated. Rather than an uncomfortable silence, however, as you point out above, Eric, a better way to go would have been questions: what attracted you to this material? Why did you decide to maintain the epistolary style of the novel? Whatever happened to MUSCLE, that sounded like fun?

Posted: 11/1/12 at 9:02pm

So let's say it's Passion- the one Sondheim show I really can't stand. If "Steve" invited me to come see it and then join him for dinner I would have LOVED IT. LOVED IT!

[PalJoey]

Posted: 11/1/12 at 10:21pm

If you look at Brown's paraphrase of Sondheim's words, it's very clear when and where "honesty" is appropriate:

Maybe next week, maybe next year, maybe someday down the line, I’ll be ready to hear what you have to say...

And, remember, this is Brown's paraphrased memory of Sondheim's point, which is not one of "contempt" or "self-centeredness" (what?!?), but something that is true of all creative people:

...but that moment, that face-to-face moment after I have unveiled some part of my soul, however small, to you; that is the most vulnerable moment in any artist’s life.

And, he goes on to say, IF in that "most vulnerable" moment of an artist's life:

...I beg you, plead with you to tell me what you really thought, what you actually, honestly, totally believed, then you must tell me, "I loved it." That moment must be respected.

Why did Brown write the blog? He says, in the final paragraph, that the whole unpleasant experience turned out to be a gift:

I could have spent an entire life worshiping at his altar and never understanding that such great art as he creates can only be borne of deep vulnerability.

Pity some of the people commenting in this thread about cockamamie assumptions of "self-centeredness" can't glean that lesson from the words Brown actually wrote.

[henrikegerman]

Posted: 11/1/12 at 10:43pm

"In the case of the show of a friend, host or even just a friend-of-a-friend, I can't imagine starting with anything but a list of what I like about the performance."

Gaveston, you make a good point. But there appears to be a major irony here when one considers Sondheim's negative comments about PORGY AND BESS (before it opened, and before he even saw it) and made not privately to his friends involved in it but in The Times.

Updated On: 11/1/12 at 10:43 PM

[PalJoey]

Posted: 11/1/12 at 10:59pm

I don't see the irony at all, except if you misunderstand the blog entirely.

Neither Sondheim or Brown says that opinions should be censored. The blog is about what one artist (or friend) should or should not say to another artist at the raw and vulnerable moment of creation.

[Playbilly]

Posted: 11/1/12 at 11:14pm

What's unclear is just why Sondheim invited them? Just to be nice because they had mutual friends? He needed an ego stroke because he was in "vulnerable" moment, and figured star-struck young composers would provide it? Was he generally interested in the young men's careers or art? The answers would clarify some of the "rudeness".

There are a lot of things unsaid in the blog. And because it's a blog, and not an "article", Brown can get away with the vagueness.

And, outside of this fun little chat we're having, who really cares?

Updated On: 11/1/12 at 11:14 PM

[broadwaybabe1234]

Posted: 11/2/12 at 12:39am

I just can't believe that someone would have the audacity to tell another that what they slaved over for months wasn't good. I mean i sit through Sh*tty highschool performances all the time and when i see my friends i always say, "Oh it was so good!" Because they worked hard. I am not a critic, i can critique but when a friend asks me how i liked it it is nothing less than fantastic. In that moment i am not a director, a writer or a fellow actor, i am a supporter.

We have to support art because as the quote says, "The woods would be silent if no birds sang except those who sang best."

[lull89]

Posted: 11/2/12 at 1:27am

People can also assume that they know what's best for a show when that may not be the case. Your reaction to a show is YOUR reaction to a show. You may think you understand what the artist is going for, and you may think you know how to clarify that, but if every artist listened to everyone who ever had an idea for how to "fix" their work, we'd have a whole lot of very strange shows in our history.

Feedbacking is a complicated art. There are whole methods artists have for thinking about how to give and receive it (I'm sure many here are familiar with Liz Lerman's Feedbacking process, which takes great pains to ensure that feedback is received in a helpful way for the artist). I think the idea that dinner after receiving free tickets to a show from someone who you might look to as a mentor is not the time or the place to be offering potential "fixes" isn't all that radical or outrageous.

[bk]

Posted: 11/2/12 at 1:56am

Why is this "blog" entry new news? This same thing appeared in The Sondheim Review, what, a year ago?

[jimmycurry01]

Posted: 11/2/12 at 2:01am

yes LYLS3637, Despite a Tony award Jason Robert Brown is a D-Lister. That has nothing to do with his ability as a composer, but more to do with the fact that most people are not familiar with him. They are also not familiar with his shows, and that is largely because they were flops. Parade flopped, The Last Five Years had a very brief unsuccessful two month run, Urban Cowboy tanked, A New Brain is barely remembered, and the song cycle Songs for a New World is only known in a small circle. A long stream of unsuccessful shows does not make him a bad composer, but it also does not make him sought after by producers, nor does it put him on any A-lists.
Awards don't keep you on the A-list either. Look at Roseanne, she won a number of Emmy's and now that her show is so far in the past she has become a D-list celebrity as well. It doesn't mean she is no longer funny, but since her show ended nobody is rushing to hire her or see her do anything ever again.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 11/2/12 at 2:01am

Who said it was new news?

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 11/2/12 at 2:58am

This piece fills with an incandescent rage, sure. But it also makes me very, very sad. Even if it is satire (and I hope it is!), people I know and respect, some of the bravest, smartest artists I know, have been pasting it on Facebook approvingly. And this vision of an artist, above all, makes me so very sad. It's so timid and small, really. We're not talking about JRB being invited to Sondheim's house to hear early sketches of songs and then trashing them. We're talking about the opening night of a Broadway show. Yes, I know, I have had productions, you're a ball of tension and nervousness, there is so much riding on the line, all of that is true. But...you're having a show open on Broadway. Shouldn't we be tougher? Shouldn't we have a better sense of what's good and what's bad about it? Shouldn't we be conscious, clear-eyed artists who can take a 23-year old's dislike? Maybe even ask them about it? Are we really going to wither in the face of that? It says such sad things ab0ut us playwrights. Such sad things.
An American Horror Story

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 11/2/12 at 3:01am

rankly, I have a hard time thinking Sondheim *actually* said this vs. how much of it was colored by JRB, unintentionally or otherwise. And if Sondheim did, in fact, dole out this ego-protecting advice, I wonder if he still stands by these words, or if they’re something he said in the heat of the moment. From what I gather, Passion was a very personal piece, written during a seminal moment in his life (he was in love), coupled by a particularly challenging path to its creation. So maybe he was especially vulnerable feeling? He needed kind words of love and encouragement. We all do, every now and then. I get it, Sondheim. I do.

But, if he feels it’s ok to send his critique of a show he hasn’t even seen yet to The New York Times, well…I think those days of guarding your opinion and leaving that work to the creators are firmly behind him. Or, maybe he feels his advice to JRB simply doesn’t apply to himself
You like me! You really, really like me! Or, why Sondheim needs to suck it up

[themysteriousgrowl]

Posted: 11/2/12 at 8:23am

Ugh. JRB's "lesson" portion of the post is now going around my Facebook News Feed as an real quote attributed to Stephen Sondheim.

[jv92]

Posted: 11/2/12 at 9:20am

I just find JRB a self-important, egocentric jerk, and the fact that he had the cajones to behave in such a way back then is a shame. 23 or 53, you behave with tact and enthusiasm after a preview performance of a show someone you know is a part of. Ricky Ian Gordon wrote a similar piece for The Sondheim Review, but he came across better, I feel.

And my opinion of the man is not based on nothing-- I've had experiences, and I have no problem expressing my feelings after experiencing him.

Posted: 11/2/12 at 10:37am

Brown didn't write "A New Brain." William Finn did.

[Kad]

Posted: 11/2/12 at 11:11am

And Urban Cowboy was a collaboration between JRB and several other composers, and Matt Cavenaugh's abs.

[newintown]

Posted: 11/2/12 at 11:23am

As much as one might like Parade (and I don't much, finding it amateurishly solemn and faux-reverent), its only competition for best (new original) score that year was the unbearable Civil War, competing with the film-rip-off Footloose and Tesori's background music for Twelfth Night. It's not like it won the award competing against even one good score.

Admittedly, the man has some fans; also admittedly, he doesn't have enough fans to keep anything he writes running for more than few months at best.

And his relentless self-promotion is just tremendously annoying, even with the understanding that he finds it necessary, as no one else will promote him.

[followspot]

Posted: 11/2/12 at 12:13pm

It wasn’t “Passion”!
Comment by Jason Robert Brown on November 1, 2012 at 8:48 pm

EDIT: Frank Rich's Times review of PUTTING IT TOGETHER appeared April 2, 1993.

Updated On: 11/2/12 at 12:13 PM

[newintown]

Posted: 11/2/12 at 12:36pm

Maybe Putting It Together?

[followspot]

Posted: 11/2/12 at 12:44pm

Sondheim's missive brought back a memory. When I was 25 and wide-eyed in love with theatre, I began dating a theatre professional 5 years my senior. Suddenly I was thrown into the world of post-performance parties, receptions, hanging socially with theatre artists, etc. When we saw someone's work that didn't fully come together for us, my friend would nonetheless effusively praise those involved afterward, while I would remain speechless, having no skill (yet) at what felt to me like outright lying. At some point I asked him the reason for his reaction, which I found kind of appalling, and he told me "What is there to be gained in criticizing? If something isn't working, they already know that. If they approach me later for my professional notes, I'll give them, respectfully and honestly. But I'm not there to give notes. I'm not there for brutal honesty. I'm there to show my support, and that's exactly what I do — support a fellow artist who has worked hard and has just exposed themselves in front of everyone, good or bad. Your silence is what's hurtful."

I know now. He was right. Lesson learned.

[Kad]

Posted: 11/2/12 at 12:48pm

If it was Putting It Together, the story becomes a bit melodramatic.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 11/2/12 at 12:48pm

"What is there to be gained in criticizing? If something isn't working, they already know that. If they approach me later for my professional notes, I'll give them, respectfully and honestly. But I'm not there to give notes. I'm not there for brutal honesty. I'm there to show my support, and that's exactly what I do — support a fellow artist who has worked hard and has just exposed themselves in front of everyone, good or bad.

That says it all.