Interview: Sophia Walker & André Morin of OHIO STATE MURDERS and A NEW WORK IN PROGRESS at Shaw Festival

Celebrated Canadian actors Sophia Walker and André Morin are, as they say, "booked and busy." Walker and Morin star in not only one Shaw Festival production this season, but two: Adrienne Kennedy's Ohio State Murders and Branden Jacobs-Jenkins' A New Work in Progress.  

Ohio State Murders, directed by Philip Akin, is a one-act drama that is "an unusual and chilling look at the destructiveness of racism in the U.S." When Suzanne Alexander (Sophia Walker), a fictional renowned African American writer, returns to her alma matter to talk about the graphic imagery in her writing, a dark mystery unravels. Ohio State Murders is in performances at the Jackie Maxwell Studio Theatre through October 3rd.

A New Work in Progress is a world-premiere workshop presentation of a new production written and directed by Branden Jacobs-Jenkins. The production takes a spin on the beloved Cinderella, noting, "This exciting, grown-up take on the classic fable imagines a darkly comic world beyond the fairytale and asks both where these characters come from, as well as where they end up long after the heroine puts away her glass slippers." A New Work in Progress is in performances at the Court House Theatre through September 10th.

BroadwayWorld spoke with Walker and Morin near the end of the shows' runs to discuss their current projects, early theatrical influences, acting in a two-hander, working with Branden Jacobs-Jenkins, and the demands of performing in two productions in the same season.

Did you both grow up watching a lot of theatre? What were some of the most memorable theatre-going experiences you’ve had that have stuck with you? 

Sophia Walker: I didn't see a lot of theatre growing up. I did go to an arts high school, so I was exposed to a lot of the arts. Singing, dancing and visual arts were taken very seriously because it was an art school. But I think the one show that had a major impact was Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat. That came to town, and I went to see it with my elementary school, and I remember that had a profound effect. It was the first time I was seeing such a big production of anything before, and I remember that taking my breath away. Then, when I was older, I saw Yanna McIntosh in Hedda Gabler, and I remember thinking, Oh my god. Wow. That made me feel like maybe I could be an actor, that I could pursue this, that I really loved it more than just being inspired by the fun and the creativity of watching a play.

André Morin: I didn't have much exposure to theatre growing up, either. I grew up near Belleville, Ontario, sort of out in the woods, and not an enormous amount of theatre was coming through there. But I remember in high school, I think it was grade nine, we went to see Les Mis[érables] in Toronto and that just blew me away. And then a bunch of my friends were also volunteering in the Young Company at a local theatre, the Stirling Festival Theatre, and I auditioned for their Young Company and got in. So, I'd only seen maybe– I think I saw Once on This Island that they [Stirling Festival Theatre] did before I was in their Young Company. I saw a lot of theatre after that because I started doing shows with them, but it sort of just... fell on me, you know?

Was acting always what you knew you wanted to pursue as a career?

Sophia Walker: I was really into sketching and drawing, and I loved that my younger siblings were impressed that I could draw, so I was always sketching things for them. I remember in elementary school, the only teacher I remember from my past, Mrs. Baldesarra, my grade eight teacher, she said, "I think you should try out for an art school because you're very creative and they have a visual arts program." I remember running home and telling my parents about it and they were like, "Absolutely not, it's out– you've never taken the subway before, you're not doing it." It just so happened that parent teacher interviews were happening at that time. My teacher pitched it to them, and they came home and were like, "You have to go to this school, we're going to get you in– you have to go." When I applied, I had to do an interview and show my art pieces and they just could not stop talking about my voice. They were like, "You have such presence and voice. Have you ever thought about the drama program?" At the time, I just loved the idea of being in an art school. I thought it was going to make me seem like I was special, like I could walk around telling everybody, "You didn't get into this school, only special kids can come here." When I got into the drama program, I think that really got things rolling and I realized acting is a lot of fun.

André Morin: I think for me, once I knew that I was interested in theatre, it only took one musical at school before I– I thought I was gonna be like a writer, or I wanted to be a singer and write music, and all of that is just so hard. Then I played The Jester in Once Upon a Mattress and that was like, Oh, okay. They laughed at me. That felt really great. And then that was it. So, as long as I've been acting, probably since 15 or 16, I was pretty convinced that I wanted to be an actor.

Ohio State Murders, directed by Kenny Leon and starring Audra McDonald and Bryce Pinkham, was on Broadway in 2022. Were there any concerns that this production, or that your performances, would be compared to that production, given how fresh it is in people’s minds?

Sophia Walker: For me, it was just exciting. I was so immersed in the script, and trying to understand the script and whether I could actually handle what was going to be demanded to tell this story. I worked so much with Philip Akin that I was just excited to come and do the show. When I knew André was going to be a part of it, I was really excited. I'm very familiar with the Jackie Maxwell Studio here at the festival. So, I was just too distracted with just wanting to put on the show. But, of course, as soon as it came out that I was doing it, I think one of the first people who asked me if I was doing it or knew that I was doing it mentioned Audra McDonald, and then all of a sudden I felt like, Oh my god. Right. They just did that show. And then it just kept happening where people would remind me. I didn't initially feel intimidated or worried, but everyone was letting me know that maybe I should be worried. But honestly, I was just excited, and it's not like Funny Girl or Hamlet or Othello. This is a show that, unfortunately, I think a lot of people are not familiar with. 

André Morin: People like to bring it up the fact that they saw it and that it was a big, important thing for them. But the two productions are so vastly different. What Philip Akin did with two people– they had, I don't know how many people they [2022 Broadway production] had in the cast, seven, eight people? And we're doing it with just two. So, it's a completely different production. Also, taking it from being in a proscenium to being in the round. I mean, you're already dealing with an avant-garde piece of theatre that relishes in straying away from your expectations of what a play normally does. Even if you wanted to, I don't think you'd be able to compare the two productions directly, so it never really occurred to me.

As was just mentioned, this production of Ohio State Murders is a two–hander. Had either of you previously acted in a two-hander? What are some unique challenges and benefits this intimate set-up presents?

André Morin: I've never done a two-hander before. I think this is absolutely the first time.

Sophia Walker: I actually did one at the Blyth Festival. I did Mary's Wedding in 2015. But it was so different because, I mean, it was very scary, but I spent so much time on the stage with another person. With this show, this feels almost like a one [person play], you know, it feels solo. So, I could kind of draw back memories of how I approached it back then, but it was a two-hander, I was never alone. In this [Ohio State Murders], I feel often alone. There were new things to explore and new experiences. I had done a two-hander, but this was very different.

André Morin: Yeah, this is not like the traditional back and forth, having a long conversation about a deep, dark thing and picking it apart with each other. If anything, when I come on stage, it gives Sophia a moment to sit down and breathe while, like, a very exciting reading from a Victorian novel happens. But it's definitely not what you would consider– when you talk about a two-hander, it doesn't fit the same bill. It is definitely more like we're following Suzanne's journey and she drives everything.  

Sophia Walker: And to add what you're saying too, André, I think when Professor Hampshire does come out on stage, it is actually something that I enjoy. Like, it's... I mean, it's not an easy play and their relationship is really layered. But, André, seeing you come out on stage, if anything, it makes me wish it was more of a two-hander. It's nice to be on stage with someone else.

André Morin: Also, I was so psyched. Sophia and I worked together so long ago at Stratford, but we didn't have any scenes together. So, the idea that we would get to do this play together was so exciting. And then, the play almost forces you to not be together for almost the entirety of it.

Since this play tackles some heavy themes, do either of you have any particular decompression rituals after a performance, or ways to separate the work from your personal lives?

André Morin: Well, we do have a pre-compression ritual. We have a casual game of what I would call a mashup between tennis and volleyball that we play backstage before every show. It's just so nice because sometimes it's been a couple of days and we haven't even seen each other and you're not guaranteed to see each other when you get into the play, so to have that moment to connect is really nice. 

Sophia Walker: After a show, I do have a whole thing. In my dressing room, I take the bright lights down and make it more of a mellow lighting. As soon as I walk through the dressing room door, I switch the lights and I have certain music that I like to– I'm someone who loves music and smells of things. I find that it's such a whirlwind that the story takes me on, takes us on, and by the time we get to the end of the play, it's like you're at the very heart of this epic revelation for her [Suzanne], for the audience to see all of this. So, by the time I walk off the stage, I'm filled with all of that, of course, because it's been almost an hour of me talking, so I need things to help me get back into my body and separate myself from Suzanne. So, like, there's certain music that I'll play, there's essential oils that I have, photos. I take pieces from different shows that I've worked on, and the ones that have had a major impact I carry with me and they become a part of my setup at my dressing table to look at. My dresser and the team that help me get out of custome and wigs, they know that they need to give me about five-to-eight minutes to just be by myself, and then I make a point of, when they get in the room, to talk to them so that I get out of my head, and back into Suzanne is Suzanne and Sophia is now back in her body.

A New Work in Progress is, as you know, a new workshop presentation from acclaimed playwright Branden Jacobs-Jenkins. Did either of you feel intimidated by working with Branden, given his success and status?

Sophia Walker: Oh, absolutely. I was so excited when I knew he was coming and I could just be in the room. I just thought, Oh my god, like, this person might know my name. I'll actually get to sit in the room and hear him talk, see how his brain works and what inspires his work. I was really excited. Then, doing my own little research on him, I found out that he loves Ohio State Murders, so that also was a bit scary, too– to know that he knew that André and I were going to be doing the show and he was going to be here to see it. He would just casually bring it up sometimes. Every once in a while, he would let us know that he had a very personal relationship with Adrienne Kennedy. He's been to her condo and teaches on Ohio State Murders, and so there was also that in the room. He did see our production and he said that he did really love it, so that was great that he signed off on it. But yeah, I was just thrilled to be in the room with him.

André Morin: Yeah, it was really– the prospect of working with someone who's just so good was really, really exciting. And, of course, if you meet someone whose work you really admire, it's going to be a bit intimidating sometimes. But he also did a really good job of evening the playing field sort of right away. And he's very personable in the room and very interested in getting to know who you are. We had some meetings early on where he was just trying to figure out who we were and just have conversations with us, and as those conversations devolved into like half an hour of just making jokes and laughter, you go like, Okay, we're all on the same page. We're all here to have a good time creating some art together. So, once that kind of dam was broken, it was just exciting to get to be in the room with him. But yeah, then he would occasionally bring up Ohio State Murders and ask very, very precise questions about it. 

Sophia Walker: He had very strong opinions. I will say, too, just to add to what André was saying, that it was really nice that he was so down to earth.

Was Cinderella a story that you both grew up with?

Sophia Walker: I was definitely familiar with Cinderella, yeah. The original Disney cartoon. I don't know how many times I've seen that cartoon. 

André Morin: That's my touchstone, too. I remember watching that movie with my family quite a bit. But it wasn't a huge influence in my life, you know what I mean? I always liked Edgar Allen Poe or the kind of darker creepy things.

Sophia Walker: And then I saw Brandy and Whitney Houston when they did it and I was like, Oh, cool. That's a different version. I'm definitely familiar with it, but it wasn't a favourite of mine.

For readers who are not familiar with what a workshop is, could you explain what this entails? 

André Morin: Normally, with a workshop you'd have maybe a week and a half, two weeks at the most, unless you're in a really big production, doing a workshop. And then you might have two or three presentations, often for producers or donors or invited members of the public, to get feedback on how it's going. Whereas with this, we're embarking on a new project, but the presentation side of it– we're obviously still in performance. So, rather than having two or three where you show what you created, like, I don't know how many we have total– and we've been doing it for weeks now. That's the abnormal side of this being sort of a workshop presentation. But then the normal side of it was, you know, you get rewrites every day, or you wait a week without getting any new work, and you're just working on the same scenes that you already have and things change on a dime. As a performer, you have to be really free and and open to those kind of changes so that the work can change and grow with you, which is maybe one of the largest challenges. But it's also is something that I find so exciting and so different from working on established plays, where it's a good idea if you memorize the lines exactly and you say them exactly the way you're supposed to, because people have been doing it for over 100 years. Whereas with this, you sort of get to add your own flair, and if the playwright likes it, it'll stay.

These plays are quite different. Aside from the vastly different settings and subject matter, one piece is a new production of an existing play while the other is a newly-created and still-developing workshop of a beloved fairytale. How did your preparation differ for each production?

Sophia Walker: I mean, for me, with Ohio [State Murders] I could read so much about Adrienne [Kennedy] and get to know the playwright and what inspires her work. Again, this is a play that was written over 30 years ago, so it's an established piece, it was one where I could listen to people who have dissected it. There was just a lot of information there to do research. So, I could approach it the typical way that I would approach a lot of plays, where you're just trying to create the backstory and sort of do as much digging as you could because the information's out there. But, doing a new work, you're exploring as you go. You have to just stay open to whatever is going to be asked of you that day and just keep playing to figure out, whatever this is, I have to just say yes. I tried to draw from my days of doing some improv and clown work. 

André Morin: Yeah, I totally agree. The name of the game when the words are already written down for you in the script is that you prepare as much as possible, so that you can be open and free when you're actually doing the work. You don't have to worry about the things that you don't know as much. You get to explore the unknowns that can only appear in the room. That's a really circuitous way of saying something simple, but the other side of it is, just exactly as Sophia said: you can't prepare. Maybe you have some words to memorize eventually, but even then those could change at the drop of a hat.

Sophia Walker: And, it is complicated, you know, because you are doing so much research and trying to honour them [the playwright]. The way Adrienne writes, she draws from so much history, so you want to honour that and make sure that it's clear. But then at the same time, you're being told that by the time you're up and running, you need to let it go and trust that it's still in your body. When you're doing a new works, you have the freedom to play all the time. There are no mistakes because nobody knows what this really is.

André Morin: Yeah, exactly. And you could overwhelm yourself, like, starting to ask questions about, Well, why did she decide to rewrite this entire section of [Le] Morte d'Arthur? Why did she pick this exact passage from Tess of the d'Urbervilles? You know, she did it for a reason. You could drive yourself crazy trying to find it, trying to figure out why. Whereas there's no right–

Sophia Walker: There's no right. You're just like, Did they laugh this time? I think I'm onto something.

André Morin: Yeah, yeah. Did I want them to laugh?

Sophia Walker: Exactly.

Sophia, you’ve been called “one of the busiest actors in Toronto” by the Toronto Star, and André you must be pretty busy yourself. What does a typical day look like for you both right now?

Sophia Walker: I mean, for me, I always have to go to the gym. I have to move my body in some way in the morning to just, like, shake the cobwebs out. Usually, you know, the schedule is set so I can see how many shows I have either that day or for the week. But it's usually having to do something to just break a sweat: got to go for a run, do some yoga. And really, the challenge is – because everything is for me – around the work. So, I'm often reviewing the script for Ohio [State Murders] if we have a show that day, or I just have to make sure that I prep things, like go grocery shopping, get gas, do laundry. But it's all around the show. My days can be often very scheduled because we're in rep[ertory].

André Morin: Right now, because both of our shows are open and running, we're in maybe the easiest and simplest time for scheduling because we can look ahead and see when the shows are and what's up. If you had talked to us two or three weeks ago, when we were still we were running Ohio four times a week and still in rehearsals for the [A] New Work [in Progress]– your whole day is theatre. If you get to groceries, it's probably on Monday. If you get to the gym, you're a hero, you're a saint.

Do you enjoy having a little variety in your work, in the sense that you're not performing the same show eight times a week?

Sophia Walker: I love it, especially now that we're running it. There were times when, because we were already up and going with Ohio [State Murders], we'd have later times and we were still in the mix of trying to figure out the New Works [A New Work in Progress]. So, doing a show and then having to have brain power for the evening, or for the day to work on the new works was sometimes challenging. Now that we're just running the shows, I love it. I particularly love when Ohio is the matinee and then we do the New Works because it's just a nice rinse, you know. But it's really nice to have two shows that are very different because it's just good for my my nervous system. So, I love it. 

André Morin: I totally agree. To get to go from the world of Ohio State Murders, which is so carefully crafted by Adrienne to be tense and to express those darker things, and then to go to this New Work where the Prince is the exact opposite of Robert Hampshire and that's really fun, that's nice.

Sophia Walker: I've seen people come and see Ohio and then they come and see New Works, and I'm not sure if they even recognize you, it's so great.

Both of you have had extensive experience with the Shaw Festival. What do you love about the Shaw Festival and its audiences that makes you keep returning?

Sophia Walker: I'm always impressed by how smart the audiences are. Like, with little nuggets that sometimes get dropped in a show that aren't obvious, I'll hear a[n audience] reaction, and it's like, Oh my god, they caught that. These are well-read individuals. It's impressive when you can hear them following and reacting in ways that feel like they understand the subject matter. 

André Morin: Yeah, and they're also excited to experiment and see new things. We have great houses for this new work. People are coming and they're more than willing to engage in it. That's really exciting, because sometimes the vision of places like Shaw and Stratford is that they put on the old hits and that's all the people like. Well, you know, people do like the old hits, but they also like being challenged. And that's exciting.

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