Separating the artist from the art

Cruel_Sandwich
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Separating the artist from the art#1
Posted: 3/24/08 at 11:46am
Do you find yourself being able to separate the crazy actions of a talented artist from their art itself so that you can enjoy it? Or will you just refuse to even experience the art at all.

For example, I recently began listening to Michael Jackson again due to an entire XM channel being dedicated to his music. Sure he's had his share of crazy problems and whatnot, but I have to say that this is some absolutely incredible pop music. I'm not even that much into this style but this music was built to last. THRILLER is just a masterpiece, innit?

Another example: Mel Gibson. Around the time he did the Anti-Jew uncoolness, he came out with an absolutely brilliant action film called APOCALYPTO. I feel bad that a lot of people won't even watch it because of the actions of the artist.

But, to me, art is something you add to the world. Once it's out there, it's not really yours anymore. That's why I don't agree with "director's cuts" of movies except for in extreme cases.

This would be like refusing to eat a meal at Roald Dahl's house because of his controversial stances on Israel.
Updated On: 3/24/08 at 11:46 AM
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Calvin
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re: Separating the artist from the art#2
Posted: 3/24/08 at 11:50am
I have a hard time appreciating Wagner's music.
Roscoe
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re: Separating the artist from the art#2
Posted: 3/24/08 at 11:53am
What do "director's cuts" have to do with not eating with Roald Dahl because of his stance on Israel?
"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about the answers." Thomas Pynchon, GRAVITY'S RAINBOW "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." Philip K. Dick My blog: http://www.roscoewrites.blogspot.com/
BkCollector
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re: Separating the artist from the art#3
Posted: 3/24/08 at 11:56am
Yeah, I don't get the director's cut reference either.

but

But, to me, art is something you add to the world. Once it's out there, it's not really yours anymore

is something I can't agree with more.


Cruel_Sandwich
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re: Separating the artist from the art#4
Posted: 3/24/08 at 11:57am
No I'm just saying that this is something that they have produced and have given it to the world, as opposed to keeping it for themselves. If APOCALYPTO was a plate of nachos, instead of a film, would you not eat it because Mel Gibson made it? Even if the nachos were really really REALLY REALLY good?
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re: Separating the artist from the art#5
Posted: 3/24/08 at 12:00pm
Mel Gibson's nachos are like red hot rivets in my mouth. I can not enjoy them as the nachos they are.
No good can possibly come from using this vast wasteland of error and deliberate deceit. You should get off of it and warn others away. You should make sure your children and grandchildren know what a corrupt and morally bankrupt institution it truly is.
Cruel_Sandwich
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re: Separating the artist from the art#6
Posted: 3/24/08 at 12:03pm
I disagree. I think they're a tad oversalted, but they're better nachos than most others these days.
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re: Separating the artist from the art#7
Posted: 3/24/08 at 12:07pm
In the case of Apocalypto, it goes beyond separation of art and artist because it enters the realm of money. Gibson produced both of his last two movies, which means that if I paid to see them, this dirty kike's money would be going to him. So no...I have no desire for him to profit in any way from me.

If he offered free nachos that he didn't profit from I would definitely take them...and then throw them at his car.

Akiva
Roscoe
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re: Separating the artist from the art#8
Posted: 3/24/08 at 12:10pm
But again, what do director's cuts have to do with any of this?
"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about the answers." Thomas Pynchon, GRAVITY'S RAINBOW "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." Philip K. Dick My blog: http://www.roscoewrites.blogspot.com/
Cruel_Sandwich
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re: Separating the artist from the art#9
Posted: 3/24/08 at 12:11pm
No, I'm just saying that I don't agree with directors going back and re-editing their films after they've been released to the world. That implies that they still own the art. I disagree, except for in extremely extreme cases, like when the studio takes it and destroys it or something.

Keep one version of STAR WARS, please!
Cruel_Sandwich
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re: Separating the artist from the art#10
Posted: 3/24/08 at 12:14pm
Michael Jackson apparently makes pretty good nachos.
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re: Separating the artist from the art#11
Posted: 3/24/08 at 12:21pm
"Michael Jackson apparently makes pretty good nachos."

Yes, but they are only available in the kiddies "Happy Meals" and come with a major surprise inside.
Now living in DC. I really have to change my name on the board.
Roscoe
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re: Separating the artist from the art#12
Posted: 3/24/08 at 12:26pm
But a lot of times the directors were not allowed to release their original visions to the world, so what's the problem with having the directors' actual real vision finally available?
"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about the answers." Thomas Pynchon, GRAVITY'S RAINBOW "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." Philip K. Dick My blog: http://www.roscoewrites.blogspot.com/
Roscoe
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re: Separating the artist from the art#13
Posted: 3/24/08 at 12:27pm
And what do director's cuts have to do with separating an artist's bad behavior from their art?
"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about the answers." Thomas Pynchon, GRAVITY'S RAINBOW "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." Philip K. Dick My blog: http://www.roscoewrites.blogspot.com/
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Calvin
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re: Separating the artist from the art#14
Posted: 3/24/08 at 12:38pm
And to continue with your nacho analogy, here's my explanation:

Perhaps a certain chef's nachos are known as the best in the world. But let's say that while at the chef's restaurant, I happen to be in the bathroom at the same time as the chef and notice that he doesn't wash his hands--the chief instrument used in food preparation--before leaving. I would have a hard time eating the nachos after that, even though they're no less delicious. It might be all in my head. Perhaps that was the only time he'd ever done that. But that's what I would think every time I ate his nachos: that I was really just eating his crap.

Art comes from the soul. When an ugly, dirty part of the soul is exposed, it's going to corrupt my interpretation of that art, be it justified or not.

Not that I won't give it a chance. Akiva, I understand what you're saying, but it's not only about money. I might be reticent to see a Mel Gibson movie in theaters for that reason, but if it was on a cable channel or an in-flight movie or some other free venue, I wouldn't stop watching it necessarily. But my view of him would definitely color my opinion.
RetroBoy
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re: Separating the artist from the art#15
Posted: 3/24/08 at 12:40pm
Yes I am able to appreciate Joan Crawford's Oscar winning performance in MILDRED PIERCE and not let the fact that she was a child abuser get in the way.
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re: Separating the artist from the art#16
Posted: 3/24/08 at 1:45pm
I can't appreciate Picasso's work because he was so nasty to so many women. WHAT A HORRIBLE ARTIST!!!!
"Impossible is just a big word thrown around by small men who find it easier to live in the world they've been given than to explore the power they have to change it. Impossible is not a fact. It's an opinion. Impossible is not a declaration. It's a dare. Impossible is potential. Impossible is temporary. Impossible is nothing. ~ Muhammad Ali
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Calvin
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re: Separating the artist from the art#17
Posted: 3/24/08 at 1:46pm
Including Sophia Petrillo!
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re: Separating the artist from the art#18
Posted: 3/24/08 at 1:48pm
Oh, and that vicious anti-Semite tramp Edith Wharton! THE HOUSE OF MIRTH is just a bunch of Jew-hating trash and nothing more!
"Impossible is just a big word thrown around by small men who find it easier to live in the world they've been given than to explore the power they have to change it. Impossible is not a fact. It's an opinion. Impossible is not a declaration. It's a dare. Impossible is potential. Impossible is temporary. Impossible is nothing. ~ Muhammad Ali
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re: Separating the artist from the art#19
Posted: 3/24/08 at 1:49pm
Oh, and can you believe that grotesque Edith Piaf used to eat poo??? For fun??!!!! Ugh! I'll never listen to that pervert again!
"Impossible is just a big word thrown around by small men who find it easier to live in the world they've been given than to explore the power they have to change it. Impossible is not a fact. It's an opinion. Impossible is not a declaration. It's a dare. Impossible is potential. Impossible is temporary. Impossible is nothing. ~ Muhammad Ali
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re: Separating the artist from the art#20
Posted: 3/24/08 at 1:51pm
I THOUGHT her nachos tasted funny.
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re: Separating the artist from the art#21
Posted: 3/24/08 at 2:20pm
It is true that none of Michael Jackson's controversies, alleged crimes, etc. take away the fact that Thriller is a masterpiece.

However, if anyone feels that they can not buy the album because they are opposed to him, that's their right. One of the greatest ways we can make our voices heard is through our wallet.

The same is true for any art or form of entertainment.
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re: Separating the artist from the art#22
Posted: 3/24/08 at 3:28pm
It seems to me that we discuss this same topic every so often, but I'd like to add this comment.

For me, an artist's output is born of the artist-like a child is (but of course not to that extent). Your art is part of you, it's a manifestation of what's inside of you, how you see the world, how you feel. It's you.

So, in saying that, I cannot completely separate the art from the artist. I CAN appreciate the creation, but it's tainted.
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chris d
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re: Separating the artist from the art#23
Posted: 3/24/08 at 3:45pm
I have to agree with Jane here. the artist's work is a representation of how the artist chooses to communicate his thoughts and his spirit. if it doesn't reflect the artist's beliefs and personal philosophies, then it isn't genuine.

having said that, I can enjoy an artist's work even if I can't "enjoy" the artist, so go figure. :P



ps: I love your avatar Jane. re: Separating the artist from the art
Updated On: 3/24/08 at 03:45 PM
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re: Separating the artist from the art#24
Posted: 3/24/08 at 4:04pm
Thanks Chris! It makes my day when someone likes my art~ re: Separating the artist from the art
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