can you deal w/ McCain as prez?

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can you deal w/ McCain as prez?#1
Posted: 3/20/08 at 1:30pm
A GOP colleague posed the question to me earlier today. I had to respond resolutely with "if he's elected life goes on".

I have to put the question out to this audience because for months now I've read a ton of we're-screwed-if-McCain wins posts.

While McCain and I differ philosophically in several areas, early on I named him as the one GOP candidate that I could tolerate if left with no other option, in response to a thread struck up by Papa.

I'm aware that some of you are pacifists which is admirable although somewhat impractical imo in the world today. War is inevitable for sundry reasons and McCain does strike me and a large swath of the electorate as someone with the "experience" to be Commander in Chief. I've never concealed my view that neither Hillary or Obama is qualified to take up that mantle.

So, with that in mind, I have to question what is it about Hillary and Obama that we find more appealing than McCain, in terms of ability to lead? I'd like to keep gender/identity politics and sexual proclivities out of the discussion if at all possible.



#FactsMatter...your feelings not so much.
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re: can you deal w/ McCain as prez?#2
Posted: 3/20/08 at 1:36pm
Healthcare
Education
Environment
Ending the War in Iraq
Economy

just to name a few in no order

ETA-however, he is the least of all evils that were running and on some things, he may be just fine
Updated On: 3/20/08 at 01:36 PM
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re: can you deal w/ McCain as prez?#2
Posted: 3/20/08 at 1:43pm
Supreme Court is the deal breaker.
No good can possibly come from using this vast wasteland of error and deliberate deceit. You should get off of it and warn others away. You should make sure your children and grandchildren know what a corrupt and morally bankrupt institution it truly is.
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re: can you deal w/ McCain as prez?#3
Posted: 3/20/08 at 1:47pm
I completely disagree on the Supreme Court. He is not nearly as conservative as the other Republicans, and there's no reason to believe he'd pick extreme nominees for the court.
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re: can you deal w/ McCain as prez?#4
Posted: 3/20/08 at 1:56pm
I am a registered democrat, and usually stay "with party." But I have to agree with javero on this one. I could tolerate McCain (he's pretty moderate), and do get the impression his experience to handle the job may be greater than that of Hillary or Obama.
Updated On: 3/20/08 at 01:56 PM
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re: can you deal w/ McCain as prez?#5
Posted: 3/20/08 at 2:02pm
The man is almost as stupid as Bush--neither one of them knows the difference between Sunni and Shia.

He has an anger-management problem.

He wants to continue too many of the disastrous Bush economic and foreign policies.

He is against giving gay partnerships ANY legitimacy whatsoever.

He would put conservatives on the Supreme Court who would stay there for LIFE.
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re: can you deal w/ McCain as prez?#6
Posted: 3/20/08 at 2:08pm
Depends.....who is his Vice President?...cuz, I LOVE the idea that what this country needs is yet another OLD WHITE MAN as president.
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re: can you deal w/ McCain as prez?#7
Posted: 3/20/08 at 2:09pm
Well, let's see. Neither Hillary nor Obama are conservative Republicans, although Hillary does seem to be taking some pages from the Karl Rove Election Fixing Dirty Tricks book lately.

And, despite your wish that we exclude discussion of "sexual procilivities" I'm going to say that at least Hillary and Obama pay lip service to the idea that gays of both sexes are human beings worthy of respect and equal protection under the law.

McCain is a member of the Republican Party, and as such is unfit to occupy elected office in any society with any pretentions of being civilized.

Clear enough for you?
"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about the answers." Thomas Pynchon, GRAVITY'S RAINBOW "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." Philip K. Dick My blog: http://www.roscoewrites.blogspot.com/
Updated On: 3/20/08 at 02:09 PM
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re: can you deal w/ McCain as prez?#8
Posted: 3/20/08 at 2:10pm
Just a note on your mention of pacifists. I've been heavily involved in the anti-war movement since its inception after 9/11. I can't count the number of times I've heard people try to convince us of the impracticality of pacifism.

The funny thing is though, that it's just an assumption that anti-war activists are pacifists. Almost all anti-war activists that I know are only anti THIS war. They're not against all war, just those they feel were wrongly waged, or based on lies.

Your post may be referring to people here you know specifically to be pacifists. But I just wanted to clarify the common misconception that anti-war = pacifist.
Art has a double face, of expression and illusion.
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re: can you deal w/ McCain as prez?#9
Posted: 3/20/08 at 2:11pm
I say we all gather in a compound and secede.
I'll bring my cast albums and dvds. Somone else can bring the food.
....but the world goes 'round
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re: can you deal w/ McCain as prez?#10
Posted: 3/20/08 at 2:19pm
"War is inevitable..." is a mindset that gets us exactly where we are today. We teach our children to work on conflict resolution that difuses and even transcends anger and violence, but still sigh and invoke this "inevitable" notion of bloodshed to solve global crises.

Watching the footage of the initial Iraq bombbardment, and the accompanying glib cheerleading rant created to celebrate its strategy, "shock and awe," I felt more despair than I have since it all began.

Beware any act military campaign that gloatingly employs Madison Avenue-like slogans (Why not "In Peoria, no one can hear the screams in Baghdad...", rather like ALIEN posters?)
"I'm a comedian, but in my spare time, things bother me." Garry Shandling
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re: can you deal w/ McCain as prez?#11
Posted: 3/20/08 at 2:37pm
Supreme Court - This is man is as moderate as George Bush, McSame is his real name.

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re: can you deal w/ McCain as prez?#12
Posted: 3/20/08 at 2:49pm
There are still plenty parents who teach their children to defend themselves and to not cower before bullies in school in preparation for the ones they will encounter at times in the real world.

If the oil producing regimes on this planet decided to embargo crude oil shipments to refineries that service certain western nations, including the US, our mechanized industries would come to a grinding halt. The need for oil is so incessant in the first world that we tend to take it for granted.

It takes oil to keep the machines in factories going, oil to keep the turbines that generate electricity turning, and oil byproducts in a host of consumer products from tires to hair styling products. Given that the US produces little oil state-side to mention, some GOP prez will always find it in the interest of the US to do whatever necessary to keep the "black gold" flowing into US resevoirs.

Even Obama has found it appropriate to add a nod to "oil reserves" in the latest iteration of his stump speech. I'm not suggesting that we should be a nation of war-mongers but I'm also not suggesting that we should be naive about how oil (often produced by our sometime enemies) is inextricably tied to our fortunes as a nation.

There ain't enough green space available to plant corn or cane to produce enough ethanol to keep the US economy going, no where near enough.

Hillary or Obama will have little choice but to do whatever necessary to keep open the shipping lanes of our oil-producing fiends (and foes) and pander to the Saudi Royal family just like McCain. At least Obama had the gumption to admit that it's in our national interest to break bread with the psychotic nut named Hugo Chavez versus trying to force him into a corner for "time out".

The war in Iraq per Bush was supposed to have been paid for out of proceeds from the sale of that oil. To date, millions of barrels are unaccounted for and we're amassing a debt to China the size of which I can't even wrap my brain around. McCain can in no way be as incompetent as the current president. I just don't buy the McSame-meme.

McCain's witnessed firsthand just how a Republican should not run the federal government. Politics is about compromise. I still believe he's more electable than either Obama or Hillary, but holding out for Obama against increasingly daunting odds.
#FactsMatter...your feelings not so much.
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re: can you deal w/ McCain as prez?#13
Posted: 3/20/08 at 2:56pm
javero - Yes we have an oil problem, but we also have solutions. Hillary and Obama can make change and small steps toward a self-sustaining energy policy in this country.

The money spent for this oil will bankrupt our future. Our military is spent and any additional invasions/wars(ie Iran) would only serve to weaken our footing in the world.

"The need for oil is so incessant in the first world that we tend to take it for granted. "

Innovation has always been at the foundation of our country. Suggesting that leaving well-enough alone when well-enough is wrong is un-American. We can do better and our grandchildren and the world deserve better.
Updated On: 3/20/08 at 02:56 PM
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re: can you deal w/ McCain as prez?#14
Posted: 3/20/08 at 3:00pm
I think McCain could make a good president, since he's apparently a moderate, and his party's mistrust for him could, in an unexpected way, bring both parties together on certain issues. the only candidate I trust at all is Nader, so I'm trying to keep an open mind...
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re: can you deal w/ McCain as prez?#15
Posted: 3/20/08 at 3:15pm
I can deal with the pre-Bush McCain. The post-Bush McCain is such a puppy of the administration.
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re: can you deal w/ McCain as prez?#16
Posted: 3/20/08 at 3:38pm
mejusthavingfun--I always found you to be a very well read fellow on top of the issues, just a bit of a typical democratic idealogue.

I'd like to pose to you one question which begs a simple reply.

Which of the three current candidates for POTUS would best prosecute the global war on terror, secure the production of oil in Iraq and chase the Taliban out of Afghanistan permitting the control of poppy seeds to fall into western hands?

Note: w/o a stead supply of crude oil and making a dent in the trade imbalance with China, Hillary's i can name more national leaders than you can spiel and Obama's let's just all get along speeches won't resonate with red state voters come November. McCain simply has to ask "who's your daddy" metaphorically speaking.

You have to ask yourself who Americans would like to see the war turned over to, not which candidate is most likely to stop it soonest.
#FactsMatter...your feelings not so much.
Updated On: 3/20/08 at 03:38 PM
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re: can you deal w/ McCain as prez?#17
Posted: 3/20/08 at 3:39pm
Ralph Nader is funded by the Republican National Committee. He's no more progressive than Dick Cheney.
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re: can you deal w/ McCain as prez?#18
Posted: 3/20/08 at 3:49pm
javero - I don't think our president has the power to do any of those things. He/she has a congress and an administration that will work for set goals. Our president is a figure head. George Bush certainly did not dream up this Iraq war on his own.

What you suggesting is not a one-man/woman job. We need to work with the world on these issues. Personally I don't think we will see much change with any of these guys/girl.

I'm hope Barack will try do more with olive branches than these other two but he needs to get elected first. He will also bring these issues into our homes where they should be. This is our country and our money.

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re: can you deal w/ McCain as prez?#19
Posted: 3/20/08 at 3:52pm
"can you deal w/ McCain as prez?"

My question is, "What are you going to do if you can't?"
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re: can you deal w/ mccain as prez?#20
Posted: 3/20/08 at 3:55pm
think i'll go out to alberta,
weather's good there in the fall.
i got some friends that i can go to working for,
still i wish you'd change your mind
if i asked you one more time,
but we've been through that a hundred times or more.
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re: can you deal w/ mccain as prez?#21
Posted: 3/20/08 at 3:58pm
On the other hand, we've basically had McCain in the White House for the past 8 years. Think it'll get any better?
"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about the answers." Thomas Pynchon, GRAVITY'S RAINBOW "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." Philip K. Dick My blog: http://www.roscoewrites.blogspot.com/
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re: can you deal w/ McCain as prez?#22
Posted: 3/20/08 at 3:59pm
"I don't think our president has the power to do any of those things."

Of course not, but the influence peddlers here in DC sure as hell do. most white house policy & bills before congress are mocked up by the think tanks in collusion w/ the a-list lobbying firm along k street.

i think you were mia when i circulated the notorious letter signed by the american enterprise institute cabal of Bill Kristol, Bill Bennettm, Paul Wofowitz et al urging Bill Clinton take Saddam Hussein out of play because it was "likely" that he had wmd's.

Breaking News: i just received a text message from Team Obama which opens with "After 5 years, it's time to bring our soldiers home. Watch Barack talk with our Iraq veterans at 6pm..."
Obama needs to put the "P" in patrioticm going into the final stretch.
#FactsMatter...your feelings not so much.
Updated On: 3/20/08 at 03:59 PM
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re: can you deal w/ McCain as prez?#23
Posted: 3/20/08 at 4:01pm
most white policy

freudian slip?
r.i.p. marco, my guardian angel.

...global warming can manifest itself as heat, cool, precipitation, storms, drought, wind, or any other phenomenon, much like a shapeshifter. -- jim geraghty

pray to st. jude

i'm a sonic reducer

he was the gimmicky sort

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re: can you deal w/ McCain as prez?#24
Posted: 3/20/08 at 4:03pm
To me electing McCain would essentially be voting for a third term of what we have now. And I don't feel comfortable with that. Wildcard said it perfectly a few posts above mine. I know a lot of people have pointed out how moderate McCain is compared to the rest of the other candidates that were in the GOP field, but you have to take a look at the positions McCain has taken in recently months that have essentially constituted backtracking. (I'm sorry that that was such a horribly constructed sentence) He has done this to pander to the conservative base in order to combat what Ann Coulter and Limbaugh have been saying about him. For an example, check out his position on Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell back when he was running against Bush in 2000 compared to now. "Agent of intolerance" was a phrase he used to describe one of them, but has since take that comment back. If someone's convictions are so pliable, and he's willing to change his mind (or appear to) to cater to a particular group, I don't want him as my President. I worry what he might do with the three potential holes in the Supreme Court. His warmongering is laughable. The guy sang "Bomb Iran" to the tune of the Beach Boys "Barbara-Ann" He said in recent weeks that "He's just beginning to learn about economy". How are we supposed to trust the guy to pull the country out of a deficit and recession (or at least try to) when he's still taking Econ 101? What will I do if he's elected? Probably move to Canada or Europe... and I'm serious about that.