You might as well cast a 'REAL' woman as Edna !

[SueleenGay]

Posted: 8/23/07 at 8:40am

All the talk on the Michael Ball as Edna thread got me to thinking. If you like a “pretty” Edna who “looks just like a real woman,” why not CAST a real woman?

In the film they went to great lengths to make Travolta look and sound like a “real woman” and I wonder WHAT IS THE POINT?

Edna, as played by Divine and then Harvey Fierstein made NO PRETENSE of being a real woman. They were lovable and full spirited IN SPITE of their, for lack of a better word, grotesqueness. That is part of the charm of that family. They don’t see Edna as anything but a loving and caring mother and wife. It is the OUTSIDE world that judges her on her physical appearance. The Velmas and Ambers who look at her as a FREAK and not as just a fat housewife who lacks fashion sense. I think the audience needs to go through the same feelings before falling in love with Edna. Isn't that kind of the THEME of the whole piece? Not judging people on their looks?

There are LOADS of “real” women who could play the crap out of this role. Joanne Worley and Kaye Ballard, though a bit too old, come to immediate mind.

But seriously, what is the point of having an Edna played by a man who is totally convincing as a real woman?

Just my two cents.

Updated On: 8/23/07 at 08:40 AM

[DRSisLove]

Posted: 8/23/07 at 8:44am

While Edna is supposed to be a woman... everyone knows its a man. No convincing really needed. That's the whole joke, though...

Have you even seen the show? You'd know that there's a line that mentions Edna's gender when she's on the phone.

[SueleenGay]

Posted: 8/23/07 at 8:49am

Of course I have seen the show. And the original film and the remake. I don't understand your point.

[madbrian]

Posted: 8/23/07 at 8:50am

Lainie Kazan comes to mind as another woman who, although a little too old, would be good in the role.

[DRSisLove]

Posted: 8/23/07 at 8:52am

The whole point of casting a man comes in tradition from the original film.
It's a joke.

[SueleenGay]

Posted: 8/23/07 at 8:56am

See, I think it is MORE than a joke. But by going out of their way to make the male actor playing Edna look and sound as much like a "real" woman as possible it diminishes the point of having a man play her.

Updated On: 8/23/07 at 08:56 AM

[SueleenGay]

Posted: 8/23/07 at 9:00am

(I realized that the sarcasm in my original thread title might have been confusing so I changed it.)

[Playbill9117]

Posted: 8/23/07 at 9:03am

It's not a joke. It is an artistic expression of love and compassion that would be totally lost if a real woman were to play the role. While some of the (in my opinion) less talented ednas chose to MAKE a joke out of it because the didn't have the emotional range to really pull it off, the original intent was to create a character from the ground up that grabs the audience and pulls them into the story.

Yes, every Edna has moments of comedy about really being a man (It's just us girls in the big doll house) because that's what the audience wants to see, so the creators throw them a bone every now and then.

Also, the truly formidable woman that Edna becomes by the end of the play could never be played as effectively by a woman, and the struggle she goes through to be accepted and to feel comfortable in her own skin is one that is mirrored by the performer in a way, because he really has to make the audience buy him, and he also has to have the confidence to strut his stuff in drag.


Updated On: 8/23/07 at 09:03 AM

[SueleenGay]

Posted: 8/23/07 at 9:13am

Also, the truly formidable woman that Edna becomes by the end of the play could never be played as effectively by a woman

Okay, now that has taken the top slot in "most idiotic and offensively misogynistic things ever written on BWW."

But back to the point. YES, I GET THAT. My point is then why do they go OUT OF THEIR WAY to make her appear and sound like a real woman. It would just be simpler for them to cast a woman. I DO NOT BELIEVE IT SHOULD BE PLAYED BY A WOMAN. I believe it should be played by a MAN who makes no outrageous attempt to fool the audience into believing that the actor is not a man.

[SorryGrateful]

Posted: 8/23/07 at 9:15am

I'm with Sueleen Gay. Playbill9117, are you off your nut? As a woman, I take GREAT offense to your comment. Why would you even think something like that?

[CDuffy5062]

Posted: 8/23/07 at 9:15am

I think the fact that Edna is played by a man is a wonderful, subversive touch that in a very concrete way, reflects and supports the show's underlying premise.

And no matter how good (and he does) Michael Ball looks in a few publicity shots, everybody in that theater knows that it's a man playing Edna. I actually think that if, indeed, they have to take a second look to recognize that fact, that necessity may reinforce what the show is trying to say in another, but equally valid way.



Updated On: 8/23/07 at 09:15 AM

[Playbill9117]

Posted: 8/23/07 at 9:18am

It's important to make Edna look like a woman, because the audience would be slightly offended at an Edna with leg hair and a beard.

As for the sound, you are way off base. Most Ednas make very little attempt at sounding like a real woman.

Name one actor who actually tried to sound like a real woman while doing the role in the stage version.

[SueleenGay]

Posted: 8/23/07 at 9:24am

You obviously have seen way more Ednas than I have, and you are right, on stage there has not been a great attempt to make her sound like a woman. That is how it should be. But Marc said he was rewriting the part to feature Ball's voice (who knows what that will entail) and Travolta tried some weird vocal crap to try to sound like a woman.

[robbiej]

Posted: 8/23/07 at 9:51am

I actually think there is another issue entirely that hasn't been addressed. I like to call it the QUEER EYE syndrome. Bear with me here.

Queer Eye was a lot of fun because we saw these hapless, clueless straight guys be made over to look and act better. It was very endearing and sweet and gave us all a good laugh.

And then Bravo tried to do the same thing for women. And what was funny and endearing when done to men became, frankly, disturbing and unfunny when done to women. Why? I'm not totally sure. Perhaps it's because we still think of women as the 'weaker sex'. Or maybe it's because we all are aware of the extraordinary pressures put on women in this society to remain young, trim and beautiful, while their men can go to seed. It almost seemed cruel to focus so much on women and their aesthetic shortcomings.

I think this plays a significant role in why Edna should be played by a man. We are removed just enough to be able to laugh at this large woman. Were a real woman playing her, it would add a very real and upsetting darkness about women and appearance. And in the scenes where Edna tries to keep Tracey from auditioning for the TV show, we would not have the distance to take it for comedy...it would become a scene about a woman controlling and dominating her daughter and imposing her issues on her heavy daughter. All of a sudden, it becomes the dressing room scene in GYPSY. And I think that would destroy the fairy tale aspect of the show.

Perhaps these thoughts just bely my own deep-seated misogyny...treating women with kid gloves. But I do think it opens up a whole lot of issues that need to be addressed that don't exist when you cast a man (no matter how well he pulls off playing a woman) in the role.

[Kringas]

Posted: 8/23/07 at 9:53am

I just watched the original again the other day, and I was struck by the fact that I found there was something feminine about the way Divine played Edna. Maybe it's just my own suspension of disbelief. I've always felt the original movie (or to a lesser degree, the remake) played the everything "straight" (including, by not limited to, the Edna stuff), while the stage version was just one wink after wink to the audience.

[ThankstoPhantom]

Posted: 8/23/07 at 9:59am

I think Shaiman is just taking advantage of Ball's impressive vocals for the London staging.

[CDuffy5062]

Posted: 8/23/07 at 10:00am

Didn't John Waters once say something to the effect that when he first saw Divine on the set of the Hairspray film he thought she actually was a Baltimore housewife?

[tazber]

Posted: 8/23/07 at 10:03am

I always thoght that John Waters had Divine play Edna b/c he had a tradition of casting him in women's parts. Waters was always big on casting outsiders and fringe types in his films.

I just assumed that they kept the conceit of a male Edna for the musical b/c it simply added to the campy tone of the piece.
IMO Hairspray is a sendup of American values circa 1950, and what better way to drive that point home than have a man in drag playing the heroine's mother?

[Wanna Be A Foster]

Posted: 8/23/07 at 10:07am

Didn't John Waters once say something to the effect that when he first saw Divine on the set of the Hairspray film he thought she actually was a Baltimore housewife?

John Waters will say whatever you pay him to say nowadays.

[TheatreDiva90016]

Posted: 8/23/07 at 10:22am

For all of those people who believe that the audience is all in on the joke of Edna being played by a man, do be too sure.

I can't tell you HOW MANY times I spoke with audience members or staff members of the theatre who believed she WAS being played by a woman.

One story I have was I used to get Bruce a cup of coffee before each show from the same sweet lady in the lobby. We were there for 3 weeks when she asked me what her real name was, and I said,"Bruce".

The look on her face is something I'll never forget. She, as did many others, believed Edna was a real woman, even though is sates in the program who was playing the part.

Also, John Waters wanted the role to always be played by a man in a dress because his dream was for the show to be done in High Schools so that the 'fat girl' and the 'big homo' could play the leads.

[ThankstoPhantom]

Posted: 8/23/07 at 10:23am

That last paragraph made my day.

Posted: 8/23/07 at 10:47am

I'm curious to know if, when the show becomes a licensed property, if it will be mandated in the script that Edna be played by a man.

And really, we've never seen a female play Edna, so how do we know it wouldn't work?

I'd say she's played by the man for the same reason that Peter Pan is played by a girl.

[TheatreDiva90016]

Posted: 8/23/07 at 10:48am

As far as I know, if you get the rights to it, Edna must be played by a man. That's they way John wanted it.

[Calvin]

Posted: 8/23/07 at 10:52am

What if Julie Andrews played Edna as a woman playing a man playing a woman?
Updated On: 8/23/07 at 10:52 AM

[TheatreDiva90016]

Posted: 8/23/07 at 10:59am

That would be an egregious error.