Songs For A New World ?'s

[B-WayHereEyeCome]

Posted: 7/5/05 at 11:45pm

To avoid a bombardment of links directing me to past discussions of this show, I did a thorough search of it before I posted, and actually enjoyed reading much of the other things written about it, so that is my reason for encouraging searching before posting.

Anyway! I love this musical and have a few questions about the ranges of the two male leads.

1) First of all, whoa. Their voices are amazing. But anyway, are both of them technically tenors, or is Ashmankas (or however you spell it), a baritone with the ability to hit some high notes?

2) Also, does anyone know the highest note belted by Ty Taylor on the recording? The "belieeeeve" in On the Deck of a sailing ship, like the last "I'm" in King of the World, and in A New World, "the earthquake..HITS!", off the top of my head come to mind, not to mention the insane notes in some of the harmonies.

3) Also, is that just straight belting or is there some type of mixing or something going on? (I know some people say guys don't mix or the discussion over that, but it seems to have a sort of falsetto quality to it? or maybe I'm hearing wrong). Especially the "believe", in On the Deck..I've tried to sing that so many ways to get that same sound, but it never seems to come out right

I would love to be able to easily sing some of the notes Taylor does but it doesn't seem to sound as easy as he makes it on the recording, I can hit some of them on good days, but I don't know about sustaining performances of it over a long period of time. I'm sure there are people that could, but more than likely is it pretty hard to find a tenor that can sing these notes for a show?

4) And not to sound racist or anything, but is the guy that usually sings the High tenor part, usually black? It seems the pop quality of the songs, seem to fit a black person's voice moreso, but again I could be wrong.

5) As a tenor, would the opening male part from "It's about one moment"..to "The road will end in a new world", be good as an audition piece, or is that more geared toward a high singing baritone? I know people say JRB isn't good for auditions, but that little beginning part doesn't "sound" that difficult to play. Or maybe even the beginning male part in "I'd Give It All For You"?

6) Last question, for people who have seen productions of this, not necessarily the actual production, but like community or college productions, has the guy who sang the high tenor part usually been singing the same notes similar to the recording, or have they been brought down a little? I wouldn't mind doing it at my school, but wouldn't want to tarnish the show by having to bring it down, just in case I couldn't get it pretty sounding enough to perform.

These are all the questions I can think of for now, sorry so long, just really on a SFANW kick right now, haha.

[Pinguin]

Posted: 7/5/05 at 11:54pm

I can't or am too lazy to answer all of your questions, but yes man 2 is usually played by a black man, and more black men than men in other races have a "gospel mix" which is the range that most of the ridiculously high notes fall into. And King of the World seems to be sort of written for a black man, though of course it could be sung by any man who can hit those notes :0) I think he sings up to at least a B flat...but it probably goes higher.

Those particular selections are not very difficult to play, and wouldn't be a tragic choice for auditions.

[B-WayHereEyeCome]

Posted: 7/6/05 at 12:53am

Interesting...anyone else?

[CatieElphie1]

Posted: 7/6/05 at 1:03am

I have no idea....but I congratualte you on your thouroghness
and yes, I know I can't spell

and, for the record, King of the World always seemed like a song that Jesus would sing. I have no idea where that came from, but I do.

[B-WayHereEyeCome]

Posted: 7/6/05 at 1:10am

Oh Catie, I'm pretty convinced that it is about Jesus too. I didn't know if I was interpreting it wrong or what. I mean the title seems to suggest Jesus, then listening to the lyrics it makes it even more clear, to me anyway.

[zoran912]

Posted: 7/6/05 at 1:14am

Eh...not sure about the Jesus thing..maybe?

As for the song, I've heard white men sing it before. I've also heard of a white woman singing "Flying Home."

[CatieElphie1]

Posted: 7/6/05 at 1:14am

oh indeed..some stuff doesn't make sense conventionally, like "give me back my family", but I either see it as okay, Jesus had a family or like, he sees his followers as his people.
and then there's "let me please see my son"...so maybe he and mary magdalene were a "bit more than disciples...if you know what I mean..."
.and the one about "mother mary with a blessing in my soul"...completly always reminded me of like, a teenager who finds out she's pregant, but I guess that's kind of obvious. I always see it though as like, she finds out something about the baby...like, it has special needs or something...you?

[zoran912]

Posted: 7/6/05 at 1:42am

I like your interpretation. I've seen it as a woman who realizes that she is giving birth to the second coming of Christ.

[CatieElphie1]

Posted: 7/6/05 at 1:45am

it's funny you should say that....I actually have thought that too, but I thought it sounded a bit hokey to actually put out there...so I guess I'm not the only one!
sweet!

[zoran912]

Posted: 7/6/05 at 1:49am

I go with the literal often. I'm more of a music person. I just get caught in that instead of analyzing the lyrics.

[wonderland]

Posted: 7/6/05 at 1:59am

I directed/was forced to appear in the show (after our tenor dropped out)... let me see what I can tackle...

1) First of all, whoa. Their voices are amazing. But anyway, are both of them technically tenors, or is Ashmankas (or however you spell it), a baritone with the ability to hit some high notes?

Brooks A*** is what is now known as a bari-tenor, a singer with a baritone's quality but able to sing well above the typical (read: classical) range of a baritone. SFANW takes the baritone up to a solid Ab in "She Cries," and a Bb in the opening, sung with the tenor.

2) Also, does anyone know the highest note belted by Ty Taylor on the recording? The "belieeeeve" in On the Deck of a sailing ship, like the last "I'm" in King of the World, and in A New World, "the earthquake..HITS!", off the top of my head come to mind, not to mention the insane notes in some of the harmonies.

Alright, a breakdown of those insane notes... the last "believe" is a Bb. The "I'm" in "King of the World" and the "hits" in the opening are C's. He also hits a C in "River Won't Flow". The end of "Flying Home" takes him to a Dd, done in a very powerful gospel blend. The ultimate note is in "Sailing Ship", during the "I am unworthy" repetition, when he wails on high F. All of these notes are in the score.

3) Also, is that just straight belting or is there some type of mixing or something going on? (I know some people say guys don't mix or the discussion over that, but it seems to have a sort of falsetto quality to it? or maybe I'm hearing wrong). Especially the "believe", in On the Deck..I've tried to sing that so many ways to get that same sound, but it never seems to come out right.

It's a definite blend.

I would love to be able to easily sing some of the notes Taylor does but it doesn't seem to sound as easy as he makes it on the recording, I can hit some of them on good days, but I don't know about sustaining performances of it over a long period of time. I'm sure there are people that could, but more than likely is it pretty hard to find a tenor that can sing these notes for a show?

Next to impossible.

4) And not to sound racist or anything, but is the guy that usually sings the High tenor part, usually black? It seems the pop quality of the songs, seem to fit a black person's voice moreso, but again I could be wrong.

Almost always. (I'm not, but again, I was a replacement.)

5) As a tenor, would the opening male part from "It's about one moment"..to "The road will end in a new world", be good as an audition piece, or is that more geared toward a high singing baritone? I know people say JRB isn't good for auditions, but that little beginning part doesn't "sound" that difficult to play. Or maybe even the beginning male part in "I'd Give It All For You"?

That part of "New World" is fairly easy to play, and will take you to an F. "I'd Give it..." will also take you to an "F", but it will make you the enemy of every accompanist you hand it to. It is hard.

6) Last question, for people who have seen productions of this, not necessarily the actual production, but like community or college productions, has the guy who sang the high tenor part usually been singing the same notes similar to the recording, or have they been brought down a little? I wouldn't mind doing it at my school, but wouldn't want to tarnish the show by having to bring it down, just in case I couldn't get it pretty sounding enough to perform.

We played with the notes, especially some of the gospel obligato. I have a decent falsetto and a solid Bb, both of which got their workouts. Jason may or may not be lenient about changing the harmonies, I don't know. I know he loves people to do SFANW (and only partly because he gets money) so if you explained your situation he might grant permission to make a few small changes. But don't change the "I believe." That's a money not that you gotta have.


ETA: King of the World was about a political prisoner for me, specifically, a South African fighting apartheid. But I don't think there's anything specific suggesting that in the song, nor is there anything suggesting that is wrong. Updated On: 7/6/05 at 01:59 AM

[Pinguin]

Posted: 7/6/05 at 2:28am

Well, I know the song was written for Billy Porter, so written for a black man, yes? :0) Who knows what it's supposed to mean...

Updated On: 7/6/05 at 02:28 AM

[wonderland]

Posted: 7/6/05 at 4:32am

Was it written for Billy Porter? I thought King of the World was one of the ones JRB wrote before Daisy Prince "discovered" him. But I'm wrong a lot.

[son_of_a_gunn_25]

Posted: 7/6/05 at 4:42am

For some reason King of the World always made me think of Martin Luther King. Maybe in one of his more desperate moments when he was in jail. I took the title having "King" in it, the talk about "dreams", and "land of the free" as allusions.

Updated On: 7/6/05 at 04:42 AM

Posted: 7/6/05 at 9:57am

Not that any other interpretations are incorrect, as the song is pretty vague and universal, but Jason has denied references to Jesus and Dr. King, saying that the song is completely autobiographical. If I remember correctly, he mentioned coming to New York and struggling to be heard, so yes, wonderland, I think you're right about it being pre-Daisy Prince.

[AttendTheTale]

Posted: 7/6/05 at 11:09am

One of my friends attended a "talk-back" sessions after a production of "The Last 5 Years" in Boston, and he told me that someone asked him about the high tenor part in SFANW. Jason's response was that he had written the part LOWER, but when they found the person who was going to be singing it (not sure if it was Taylor or Porter), JRB re-wrote a lot of the notes HIGHER for him. Has anyone else heard this?

[mysterywhiteboy41]

Posted: 7/2/07 at 1:37pm

I was just in a production of Songs, and was a music ed major. So hopefully I can answer some of your questions.

1) I'm a high tenor and was placed on the bass line during harmonies. The bass line (Man #2, Brooks Ashmanskas) hit's a sustained Bb and a C a couple of times during steam train.

2) The highest note belted by Man 1 (Ty) is a D5. Yes...a D5. During Sailing Ship bridge "i am unworthy...i am Unworthy!" It's not the loud falsetto note...that's just a falsetto of I think an F...right before that he hits a D. "We believe..." is a Bb. King of the world is a C. and "Earthquake hits!" is a C.

3) For myself I know it was all belted except for the obvious falsetto moments. Our production had an ensemble of about 20 kids (yeah, i didn't like that either.) and some mixed simply cause they couldn't handle it. I don't really know how it's supposed to be done. But I belted it.

"I would love to be able to easily sing some of the notes Taylor does but it doesn't seem to sound as easy as he makes it on the recording, I can hit some of them on good days, but I don't know about sustaining performances of it over a long period of time. I'm sure there are people that could, but more than likely is it pretty hard to find a tenor that can sing these notes for a show? "

It's rough. Flying Home may be one of the most difficult songs to sing in musical theater even. There are people that can do it. I've seen two guys at least at community theater who did it and were amazing as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBUstVV0NiI

That's my personal favorite amatuer performance.

4) I'm pretty sure it was written for a black performer. *shrug* i've seen a hispanic man...tha guy above.

5) Those two songs are pretty easy to play (I play piano). So they should be fine. Use the opening though over I'd Give It All For You as it shows off a little more.

6) In the three productions i've witnessed...nothing was lowered. In the one I was in the guy singing steam train could not handle it and the guy singing flying home was sick through the run :-

I saw a video on youtube where some guy sang Flying Home down the ocatave. It was awfully dissapointing.


I didn't read the rest of the thread. So if the answers were repeated, I apologize...if not...hope this was helpful!

[popular_elphie]

Posted: 7/2/07 at 1:55pm

I've always thought of "King of the World" as more of a prisoner type song. Plus, Jesus singing it would be a bit odd. And I thought, Jesus, that's the key, there are no walls surrounding me, there are no prisons in this life. I mean, he could just be talking to himself, but I thought of it more as a "golly gee" type thing.

Michael Arden has done a rendition of "King of the World" before.

[erinrebecca]

Posted: 7/2/07 at 2:18pm

Nice of you to answer the questions, mysterywhiteboy, but the questions were asked two years ago.