Why is everyone so against depth in high schools?

[Ke3]

Posted: 1/21/21 at 11:41pm

Frequently when the discussion of high school theater comes up here, the conversation devolves into what is and isn't appropriate for high schools and discussions about vocal ability. I don't understand it. While I think there are some inappropriate shows for high schoolers, I also think most of the things people object to are absurd. As someone who graduated fairly recently, nobody wants to do 'Grease' for the 35th time. I've seen people saying nothing from Sondheim is okay for high schools. Not even 'Into the Woods.' Why do people have such a narrow view of what high school theater should be?

[dramamama611]

Posted: 1/22/21 at 12:28am

Who is "everyone"? Certainly not most of the people here.

As a hs director myself, I've done plays that deal with lgbtq issues, school shootings, rape, depression, dementia...to name a few. Ive gotten flak and support from the community for each of them.

I've never directed Grease, nor will I. But I cant choose Next to Normal either...more contemporary musicals ARE harder to choose with music that is too demanding, tech needs that are out of reach and casts that are too small.

Every season I try to balance classics and family friendly with new and cutting edge. I like to think that within the 4 year span I have my students, they get a plethora of experiences.

But I also live in liberal Massachusetts, where both my administration and community will trust and back me. Trust me, doing a play about a hs student that is raped was NOT what many thought we should talk about. Its also the only straight play that we have ever sold out even after adding a performance.

You want it different, talk to YOUR community, because its a community mindset.
 

Updated On: 1/22/21 at 12:28 AM

[dramamama611]

Posted: 1/22/21 at 12:28am

Damn, I hate double posting.

Updated On: 1/22/21 at 12:28 AM

[AEA AGMA SM]

Posted: 1/22/21 at 12:34am

The concern I sometimes have regarding shows/roles with difficult vocal ranges is that they can do permanent damage to someone trying to sing them with an untrained voice. Some educators can recognize this and will only choose those shows if they know they have someone who is ready and able to take on that role, but there are just as many, if not more, who simply don't or won't recognize that it can be a problem. 

Other than that, as dramamama said, it's a community mindset. If there is something you want to see in your community then you need to use your voice to speak up about it. 

[missthemountains]

Posted: 1/22/21 at 11:44am

So, I'm still under 30 and have a lot of experience as an arts educator, a director, and a performer. I state my age because I think it's important for me to clarify that my teenage years are not that far behind me, but I also have enough perspective as an adult to provide distance from them to give some insight.

When I was a teenager, I was a total edgelord and I was also tired of performing stuff like Disney, and I am inclined to agree that teenagers shouldn't be performing things that are babyish and void of any substance. Sex and drugs are part of teenage life, and Rent especially meant a lot to me. And I even was lucky enough to perform in Rent when I was 17. But my director made some earth-shattering revelations to our company that was clear we really weren't ready for it. I remember vividly one day when my cast members were performing "Without You", my director went: "You understand this song is about heroin withdrawl, not love, right?" and we were all like...oh. She had to walk through a LOT with us. She really did the work to make sure we understood, to the best that she could, what it was like to actually have a drug addiction and what that does to people.

My point being is that I didn't have the life experience for Rent that that show really asks of the actors involved. While I did have one friend who had a heroin addiction at that time, I hadn't experienced friends with HIV, friends who were sex workers, etc. yet. The way I would approach Rent as an actor now is so different than how I did as a teenager. I have not lived the lives those characters have, but my life experience closely mirrors it way moreso than when I was 17. And let's be honest, Rent gets performed in high schools in predominately surburban areas that tend to gloss over that Seasons Of Love is a song about a transgender woman dying of AIDS. With the rare exception, many of these teens are in the same headspace I was. They simply can't understand the depth of the material because it's so far away from their lived experience.

Additionally, where things get really challenging for me as both a director and an audience member is two factors: authors intent and the audience. In many ways, I think it is unethical for teenagers to perform simulated sex or wear provocative clothing because they're minors and I imagine that the parents who watched my performance of Rent felt similarly back in the day. Same can be said for Cabaret and literally hundreds of other shows that deal with topics like sex work. However, when we censor these things, it goes against authors intentions. Even when authors and estates give the go ahead for high schools to make school versions, one has to remember when the authors wrote works like Cabaret, Rent, Pippin (just a few "adult" shows that I can think of that are performed in high schools with regularity)...even most of the Sondheims--these works weren't meant to be performed by teenagers, and therefore, I do feel like even with permission, it feels unsuitable for high schoolers to perform them. Especially when it comes to sex work. Even Carrie gets hot and heavy between Chris and Billy, but never requires them to take their clothes off.

However, there are ways around it that feel acceptable to me. Nancy in Oliver! to me feels like an example that works, because there are so many children who are in that show, that she's never asked to be nearly nude or do a strip tease. The aspect of her and Bill Sykes' relationship is certainly mature and disturbing and it's a fine line, but ultimately, feels much less mature to me than Cabaret, Rent or even something like The Life or Tenderloin. Similarly, Sweeney Todd has a ton of violence, but not sex (save for the Johanna Reprise which I have seen a teenager perform, and it was uncomfortable--but these days even with adults I've seen that number cut). And while I could get into the dangers-of-sex-versus-violence-which-is-worse argument all day, as an audience member and as a director, I feel way, way, more safe for the underage actors on stage with a simulated violence scene than I do than with anything sexual. I think most people in the American Theatregoing scene would agree with me. Of course with Sweeney, it is a really vocally demanding score as are all the Sondheims, so I agree that any director doing it with minors should only do it with really excellent quality singers. The good news with Sweeney is if you don't have strong singers, there's a non musical version! Everybody wins!

I'm not totally sure what the answer is here as to what material is or isn't okay, but I can tell you that it's all totally subjective. I also can't totally explain this logic, but in some ways, I feel like it is easier to tackle more difficult material in non-musicals as opposed to musicals. In the instance of Sondheim, a lot of his work is not very provocative, but it is mature in tone. While I don't think high schoolers have any context to perform Company, I think for me personally I would rather see high schoolers take stabs at shows that feel a bit beyond their life experience so long as it involves very, very minimal simulated sex which is where my hangup with Rent comes in (although I guess Sorry/Grateful is a post-sex scene, but that to me feels so much tamer than say, Out Tonight in Rent). As stated before though, there is also a vocal concern--but tbh, I have never met an adult performer who permanently damaged their vocals chords performing Sweeney, Company, Merrily, WSS, Woods as a teenager. You'd have to be a really horrible music director to let that happen.

However as I was saying earlier--an audience member, when the clothes start to come off with pre-pubescent bodies, that's where I get extremely uncomfortable. I can live with simulated drug use, swearing, stage combat/violence, and kissing as an adult audience member--but simulated sex is where things start to get cringy for me. The pageant sequence in Little Miss Sunshine comes to mind. I know teenagers don'r want to think of themselves as kids like little Olive in LMS, but they are. Then again, I think the entire point of a show like Spring Awakening is that because we have such a puritanical view of sex with teenagers cross-culturally in Angelo-Christian societies is why we end up with teen pregnancy, rape, etc. However, even the original Spring Awakening had very few cast members that were underage, IIRC. Most of them were at least 18. 

[NameGreg]

Posted: 1/22/21 at 11:58am

Well I believe first of all, it’s harder to get high school kids to go for a dramatic play than a comedic one. In my experience, most young actors are more at home telling jokes.

But I don’t believe all that applies to every high school. Some of them go for very mature stories, and I’ve seen some genuinely pull it off.

Also, in terms of music, it’s not like every school has a series of amazing singers. Often it’s easier to go for a show that’s more vocally relaxed than a very difficult Sondheim/Lloyd Webber score.

[dramamama611]

Posted: 1/22/21 at 11:58am

LOTS of good there, MisstheMountains!

(Interesting note: one of the girls in the original cast was supposed to be an understudy for Wendla - Jen Damiano, I believe, and then they realized she couldn't do it because she wasn't yet 18.  I believe it was due to BOTH the nudity and the simulated sex.)

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 1/22/21 at 1:05pm

I think it's more about what will sell tickets and what the community wants to see. The selections are obviously going to be different in rural Mississippi versus urban New York. 

[The Distinctive Baritone]

Posted: 1/22/21 at 2:13pm

Interesting responses here.

From my experience as a drama teacher and as someone who has lived in New York, Chicago, and Phoenix, I can say with certainty that what is "okay" for high schoolers to perform depends entirely on where in the country the high school is located. Even within the same state you will find different areas that are very conservative and very liberal - for example, Chicago is a very liberal city, but the rest of Illinois is mostly conservative.

For me personally, since I teach in a relatively conservative area, and my school is actually a combined middle school and high school, I am pretty limited in terms of what I can "get away with" teaching, directing and producing. Even though most roles go to the high schoolers, there are always at least a couple sixth graders in the spring musical, and then their friends and younger siblings come to the show. I will usually have kids as young as five in the audience, although most are ages middle school and up.

It is interesting however, that it is mostly PARENTS who have an issue with "adult" material, not students. They want to "protect" their kids from anything involving sex, drugs, swear words, or anything that might challenge the ideals they've worked to instill in their kids. As a parent myself, I totally understand this, although I also find it funny that a parent might be horrified by say, the "Lovely Ladies" scene in Les Miz, when even middle schoolers have surely seen actual "lovely ladies" doing what they do uncensored on the internet...In any case, I "play it safe" and stick primarily to "family friendly" titles for these reasons.

[Mr. Wormwood]

Posted: 1/22/21 at 10:42pm

As someone with experience in this field, I agree about parents and/or school admins being a bigger issue than the students.

That being said, from an artistic standpoint, I think the content and depth questions are not as much about what might be considered appropriate in terms of explicit material but in terms of what is appropriate for age & life experience. That's why I could be more understanding of something like Spring Awakening at a HS than Company even though Spring Awakening would cause a lot more problems with school admin and parents. But it's certainly more relevant and won't seem silly to see teenagers playing teenagers.

But I think you have to be mindful of the school and community. You want to bring arts to your particular area and there's no need to go and get yourself fired for the sake of putting on an edgy show. If you're in a more liberal school or area, sure. But if you're in a rural school in the middle of country, just putting on a high quality production can be a great first exposure to good theater for kids and audiences.