"If You Can't Sing Pop, Don't Even Try Broadway"

[~*Triple Star On Broadway*~]

Posted: 1/31/04 at 5:43pm

Ok, so I was at this musical theatre class a few nights ago and the guy that was putting it on was saying some things I couldn't believe. One of them was " So kids, If you want to do musical theatre and be on broadway, you're going to have to be able to sing pop music. Cause thats all that broadway and musical theatre is anymore. Pop culture is taking over musical theatre. So like it or not its the sad truth." Then he went on a rave about how he was in Mamma Mia! (in Canada) and all this other stuff.
Ok, so the first thing that ran through my head was, What the hell was this guy talking about? I mean, sure musicals like Mamma Mia! and RENT are needing people with poppier voices. But look at the rivival of "Wonderful Town", "Little Shop Of Horrors" and "The Producers" etc. So I asked him about those specific musicals that you didn't neccessarily have to have a "pop" voice for. He didn't really have a comment back for it, and kept going on about the whole new "pop culture overtaking Broadway".
I just really couldn't believe that someone would think that there was no way for a person that couldn't sing pop music to get on broadway or do any other kind of musical theatre.
What do you guys think? I don't really believe that "pop culture" is taking over Broadway, and for me I really hope its not true to begin with. With upcoming revivals of "The Pajama GAme" and "Assassins", I don;t think that his comment is true at all. I love the older musicals just as much as the newer ones.
Please let me know what you think.

[tappedout]

Posted: 1/31/04 at 5:49pm

I agree with you triplestar. Pop isn't necessarily "taking over broadway" however i do think it is cropping up more and more. My question is though What is the big distinction between singing pop and musical theater, and why wouldn't someone be able to sing both?? Is there some hidden pop technique that I'm not aware of? I mean Britney Spears is pop-I doon't think her songs are that hard to sing.

[broadwayguy2]

Posted: 1/31/04 at 5:49pm

It all depends... veteran of Mamma Mia Toronto right?? If it was Justin Nurse, he could tell me the earth is flat and I would agree...


But Broadway, ultimately, has always had a vein of Pop culture.. whatever was popular at that particular time... just like anything in live theatre, Bbradway is a very broad spectrum of styles and such...

[BillFinn2]

Posted: 1/31/04 at 5:55pm

Notice your examples for musicals that balance out pop-musicals. All of those are revivals. No one is coming up with new stuff (that becomes successful). I wouldn't say Pop is taking over. Just Disney.

[wickedfan]

Posted: 1/31/04 at 6:00pm

Well it depends. There are shows that have hints of pop in it (Wicked's Idina songs) but the rest is pretty much Broadway (Wicked's Kristin and Joel songs). I mean you have Movin Out, Mamma Mia, and Rent. But I agree with Triplestar. What about Producers? Phantom? Avenue Q? Millie? Does his comment really make sense?

[JoizeyActor]

Posted: 1/31/04 at 6:51pm

I've seen a lot of casting calls that suggest auditioners should have "strong pop voices". I'm training as a classical singer right now, but my voice can fit a lot of rules. But I have to admit that a lot of newer Broadway shows don't really fit my style of voice.

[Al Dente]

Posted: 1/31/04 at 7:33pm

Let's NOT confuse actual pop singing with Broadways *version* of pop singing. None of that crappy singing in RENT, et al, is what pop singing is. Not even Idina/Alice/Kerry are pop singers. They're legit singers with a bit of pop flavor at best. Emily Skinner, Orfeh, Daphne Rubin Vega,Taylor Dayne, that's pop singing on Broadway. It's organic, not what a legit singer *thinks* pop singing is supposed to sound like. Perfect example is Kerry butler in Hairspray.

[newyorkuniq]

Posted: 1/31/04 at 7:52pm

Well,
It is good to be versatile. Many auditions I have been to for Broadway do want you to sing a pop song in addition to a classical theatre song. RENT's open call policy is no musical theatre music, only 16 bars of a pop or rock song. So in some way's he is right, but I wouldn't say it is "taking over" Broadway.

[MusicMan]

Posted: 1/31/04 at 8:03pm

The comment by the teacher is short-sighted, to say the least. The musical theatre is elastic enough a form to incorporate various styles under its banner. Just as opera has numerous styles such as verismo, bel canto, Wagnerian, etc., so does the American musical theatre. Like everything in life, the present ascendance of "pop" in musicals is merely an episode in a continuing and continuous cycle.

[Auggie27]

Posted: 1/31/04 at 8:19pm

OT: MusicMan, I've really missed your posts. I hope you have been busy, and not just in hiding. I shall look for more elsewhere.

[MusicMan]

Posted: 1/31/04 at 11:17pm

Thanks, Auggie. I've been around, just haven't had a reason to post much lately.

[ShineOn]

Posted: 2/2/04 at 1:23am

I wouldn't be so fast to group Emily in with Orfeh or Daphne, etc. Sure, she can do the pop thing... and riffs like no one's business, but she has a very musical theatresque quality to her voice and she also possesses a LEGIT voice that I haven't heard in any of the others. Emily's more the one who is legit and just has a very versatile voice.

There wasn't anything that resembled a pop infliction in her voice in "Company", for example. Sure, she can pull the big black woman out at any time, but she's got a legit voice.

I don't know if you meant those are the few that can just really pull it out... like I said, I've never heard the other girls sing anything else.


I agree with your Kerry example... her riffing her little heart out in Hairspray... she sounded like a little white girl trying to be black. Alice trying to sing 'gospel' is another good example... got the 'flavor', ain't the real deal.


I agree with whoever said it's just important to be extremely versatile today. The range of musical theatre on Broadway today is very eclectic... it's good to be well versed in every area because you never know what you may be called to do.

Updated On: 2/2/04 at 01:23 AM

[Princess MimiChica]

Posted: 2/2/04 at 8:35am

excuse me, Al, since when is the singing in RENT "crappy"!? that's just a stupid blanket statement that didn't make any poiint.

To stay with the originbal topic, singing pop certainly doesn't hurt your chances on Broadway, but i wouldn't say it's "taking over"....

[Al Dente]

Posted: 2/2/04 at 9:58am

I haven't heard good singing in RENT in years. Sorry Mimi, it's my opinion. And yes Daisy, I meant to put Emily in that group because she can "pull it out" whenever she chooses to and it sounds completely right and real. She is a wonderful legit singer but she's also a wonderful pop singer. I love her. As for Orfeh, people are often surprised that she *can* sing legit. I witnessed her do just that at the Duplex with Henry Krieger about a year ago. They were doing selections from the "when is it actually happening"?, Moonstruck. Daphne, well...you're right, there's no legit voice there whatsoever. But hey, it hasn't hurt her career much, has it?

[JohnPopa]

Posted: 2/2/04 at 10:02am

Um, wasn't Kerry being a 'white girl singing pop/soul' in 'Hairspray' sort of THE POINT?

And there's no RAWK in 'Rent.' Simply blasting show tunes does not make RAWK. Which, in many ways, is the point of this entire thread. I can't think of anyone who heard 'Seasons of Love' and said 'Hey, is that Aerosmith?' 'Rent' is musical theater, no more, no less. Updated On: 2/2/04 at 10:02 AM

[Al Dente]

Posted: 2/2/04 at 10:12am

Exactly Johnpoppa.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 2/2/04 at 10:17am

If I had paid for the class, I would've asked for my money back. What a load of crap! Some shows require pop singing, some require legit, some require classic training, etc. There's still quite a bit of variety out there and there will continue to be for a long time. Pop musicals are not necessarily a sad thing, but there are quite obviously not the only musical style on Broadway. It sounds like this pop idol wannabe is filling your heads with his own unsubstantiated nonsense. He doesn't know the future of Broadway any more than you or I. Just like Disney is not "taking over" Broadway any more than Dodger Theatricals or the Weisslers. I think producing 3 shows in 10 years is hardly worthy of "taking over" anything. It's all the propaganda of people who are bitter because the shows they don't like are successful. Let's NOT forget, we don't define who is a pop singer and who is not. The industry does. Just because someone's opinion may be that Idina is not a pop singer, doesn't make it so. She did release a pop CD as defined by the industry. That is not my opinion. It is fact.

[robbiej]

Posted: 2/2/04 at 12:10pm

I think he's absolutely right. You do have to be able to sing in the pop style. But you also have to be able to sing in a legit style. And the 1950's 'musical comedy' style.

Is there something wrong with being able to train your voice to handle all styles? It's true that the pop sound on Broadway is not true pop. But, people, I strongly encourage you all (singers, that is) to learn how to healthily manipulate your voice so that you can sing as many styles as possible. One never knows when one may be asked to sing a country song!

[sheekala]

Posted: 2/2/04 at 12:17pm

I can do everything from Gilbert and Sullivan, Meatloaf,to 50 Cent and the Andrew Lloyd Webber songbook, as long as I break my blue pill in half.

[JoizeyActor]

Posted: 2/2/04 at 12:25pm

What do you people think of having more than one voice teacher at a time?

It seems to me like it would be hard with the different teaching styles and supports, but I've considered it. I'm training with a classical style teacher right now, and I do my share of older Broadway music and Arias, etc. But I would like to also train with someone who specializes in 'Broadway'-style singing as well as even pop.

Besides the extra money, is this like cheating on one teacher with the other? A musical affair !?!?

[Songsstresss]

Posted: 2/2/04 at 3:10pm

It's obvious that Broadway has moved to more pop/belting shows over the past decades. For someone like me, and I think Joizeyactor, it's a little scary since we've been planning on doing Broadway and musical theater since we were little, but now it seems like our type of singing is being phased out. We studied shows like Sound of Music, Showboat, and Westside Story which require legit head voices and now we see that every new musical coming out is almost all belting. Will there be any new shows that require a legit soprano or a baritone? I guess we'll have to wait and see... Or just pray for revivals!

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 2/2/04 at 3:53pm

This same fear came up in the 70s when Jesus Christ Superstar hit the scene and rock musicals were popping up all over Broadway and Off-Broadway. It didn't kill the art form. The classic musical comedy style did not evaporate. It was just another style of music that found it's way onto Broadway. We've seen jazz, rock, pop, R&B, country, opera and everything in between and still the old standard style is going strong. It's evident in revivals as well as in new shows like Urinetown, Thoroughly Modern Millie, Beauty and the Beast and Avenue Q (which also uses a tiny bit of pop and R&B forms as well). Even Wicked, which may use some pop scoring, really utilizes more of the legit theatrical singing rather than the pop sounds of something like Taboo or Aida. To say that pop all that Broadway musical theatre is anymore is someone who obviously isn't paying much attention. Even most of the songs in Mamma Mia are not sung in a pop style. There are currently 15 musicals on Broadway that rely on legit theatre voices and do not necessarily require pop voices at all.

[TheBalladeer]

Posted: 2/2/04 at 3:58pm

I think that this phenomena about being able to belt extremely high is a phase that is going to wear out VERY soon. If you just look at history of musical theatre, vocal stylings vary and rotate throughout time. Songstress, you might find in a few years that there is an appeal to a legit soprano, rather than a belter for newer musicals. I know that when I go into an audition, almost every girl I hear now is trying to belt into the heavens, and some can't even do it properly. But it is just something that is popular right now. And I agree with Mister Matt and everyone else who thinks this "teacher" is full of crap.

However, as robbiej has said, it is very important to be a versitile singer today. Besides the fact that the musical theatre market is constantly changing, and includes many shows with various vocal stylings, why would you want to limit yourself as a performer to only being able to audition for, and perform in a certain genre of musicals? You are limiting the amount of chances you have at attempting to, or getting work.

But to say that the pop genre is taking over Broadway is quite extreme, if not nonsensical and inaccurate.


Cheers,
The Balladeer