Miss Saigon and racism- Page 8

[South Florida]

Posted: 7/24/14 at 6:18am

South Florida, I'm not trying to be rude, but how old are you? You need to read American plays from the late 19th century and early 20th century. You will discover your comment isn't true.

No problem 52. I don't know as much about theater as 99% of you guys and gals in here. Most of you write so eloquently I'm scared to post. I don't know any shows from the turn of last century although I do remember from my history books that minstrel shows were very offensive. Shows like Show Boat, all the Hammerstein musicals, the list is endless, so many have sought to educate against racism. This show seems to have thrown a monkey wrench into that standard.

[Auggie27]

Posted: 7/24/14 at 9:11am

"As for the idea that it is worth doing Miss Saigon in order to remind people of the shame of the Vietnam War, nonsense. There are better shows. To name only a few, read: The Trail of the Cantonsville Nine by Daniel Berrigan, Viet Rock by Megan Terry, The Basic Training of Pavlo Hummel, Sticks and Bones, Streamers all three by David Rabe, and Tracers conceived by John DiFusco and written by eight soldier who fought in Vietnam..."

All capable of filling 1500 - 2000 seats in St. Louis, Wichita, Sioux City, Columbus or even Providence? Comparing the sociopolitical impact of a wildly popular romance-centric piece of musical theater with Megan Terry's work or even Rabe's is faintly ludicrous. MISS SAIGON, whatever its warts, and they have been intelligently documented in this thread, is a successful piece of pop-culture, an entertainment that like SOUTH PACIFIC draws masses and yes, manages to make its critical points about hegemony, imperialism and racism/sexism. (Lest we forget, the 11 o'clock spot is a blistering indictment called "The American Dream.") It's at best an imperfect show, but it's popular because with accessibility and dramatic expediency it tells a strong tale and underscores the myriad prices paid for blighted, immoral policy, one still part of our global dialog. Via pop operetta, its lessons are visited on a general audience that wouldn't get anywhere near "Sticks and Bones" or "Streamers" (my personal favorite). I respect and defer to the POV about its deficiencies. But since it's not going away, I pragmatically look for its value. And maybe we can get the Roundabout to do any one of the Viet Nam-focused plays noted above. We are overdue to be reminded of that debacle in our theater, and from my observations, it's assiduously avoided, even as parallels mount with the foreign policy implemented in that last decade. I'd pay to see any of them.

Updated On: 7/24/14 at 09:11 AM

[Auggie27]

Posted: 7/24/14 at 9:30am

Very separate issue I brought up, as yet unanswered: I'd still like to know why Miyoshki Umeki and James Shigata playing Chinese immigrants in FLOWER DRUM SONG offends but Lea Salonga playing first a Vietnamese woman in SAIGON, and then a Chinese one (FLOWER DRUM SONG 2.0, penned anew by an Asian-American writer) does not. That's what my friend Harumi noted, our strange inconsistency in casting when it seems to serve particular talent. And yes, thank you, Skylight, I'll email her about Watanabe playing King Mongkut.

[LizzieCurry]

Posted: 7/24/14 at 9:39am

South Florida: it would REALLY help if you could differentiate the previous poster's question from your answer, either with italics or quote marks.

[South Florida]

Posted: 7/24/14 at 1:51pm

"South Florida: it would REALLY help if you could differentiate the previous poster's question from your answer, either with italics or quote marks."

I messed up. Still think Miss Saigon and Broadway in general are the last places you'll find ignorance, racism, nationalism. It's in our everyday lives, Broadway has always seemed like a haven from that.

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 7/24/14 at 8:05pm

Given the discussion of Vietnamese v. Japanese v. Filipino peoples, I'm surprised that nobody has compared Kim to Bloody Mary. The latter was of course originated by the one and only Juanita Hall, an African-American (who later also played in FLOWER DRUM SONG).

Bloody Mary is actually "Tonkinese", a word we don't use much any more except to refer to cats. In the 1940s, It actually referred to people from the Bay of Tonkin in Northern Vietnam. (James Michener's book makes this clear.)

In other words, like Kim, Bloody Mary was Vietnamese (and like many Vietnamese had emigrated originally to work for French colonials in the Pacific islands). So we have two iconic female Vietnamese characters who are rarely played by Vietnamese-American actors.




Updated On: 7/24/14 at 08:05 PM

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 7/24/14 at 8:09pm

South Florida, you mentioned SHOW BOAT above and I believe it was revolutionary in its day because black and white actors appeared on stage together.

But the part of Queenie (Hattie McDaniels in the 1950s film) was played by "Aunt Jemima", a white woman who performed in blackface and was the spokesperson for Aunt Jemima Pancakes.

So when you use a word like "always" in reference to Broadway, it's a problem. But compared to the average community or summer stock theater, it's true that Broadway can assemble a more diverse cast. It just isn't true that Broadway has "always" done so.

Updated On: 7/25/14 at 08:09 PM

[Charley Kringas Inc]

Posted: 7/24/14 at 10:00pm

I have major hesitations over the idea that Broadway is a haven from ignorance, nationalism, and racism. That's not to say that Broadway is ignorant, nationalistic, or racist, but it IS pretty bland, and not particularly inclusive. I'm sure the flocking hordes might be titillated by Kinky Boots but that's about as far as it goes - anything past that would push away the Disney crowds, and they've got the wallets.

[South Florida]

Posted: 7/25/14 at 5:36am

I did take it too far.

Updated On: 7/25/14 at 05:36 AM

[Auggie27]

Posted: 7/25/14 at 12:51pm

Thank you, Gaveston for that really critical piece of this story. If there's one actor who pulls all of these issues together (well, at least for stimulating discussion) it's the late, great Juanita Hall. The idea that she played both Asian roles is fascinating, particularly since African-American actors couldn't routinely be cast non-traditionally in substantial "white" parts during the era in which Hall worked successfully. So in order to work as a black woman, she played (and famously) roles that deprived Asian actors of opportunities. (Not a charge, a neutral observation.)

[StageManager2]

Posted: 7/25/14 at 6:09pm

GavestonPS, Hattie McDaniel (no S) played Queenie in the 1936 film. Frances E. Williams played her in the 1951 version.

BTW: In the former, during "Ah Still Suits Me" (written specifically for the movie), there's a package of Aunt Jemima pancake mix (at 3:11) on the cooking table that Queenis is using, as a reference to Tess Gardella (the original Broadway Queenie) whose stage persona was "Aunt Jemima."

Updated On: 7/25/14 at 06:09 PM

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 7/25/14 at 7:56pm

Thank you for the correction, StageManager2. Even as I typed my post, I had an image in my head of Hattie McDaniel in the 1936 B&W version (my favorite), but I convinced myself I was confused.

[HorseTears]

Posted: 8/3/14 at 4:23am

So, Ben Rimalower, the guy behind "Patti Issues" and a Playbill correspondent, got himself in some hot water on this very topic. He published a wishlist of his top 12 musicals that need to be revived on Broadway. For his Miss Saigon entry he wrote the following in which he basically offers an open apology to Cameron Mackintosh (on behalf of everyone?) for making a big stink about the use of yellowface in the original production. Screenshot below:




The reason it's a screenshot is that Rimalower (or his editor?) quickly scrubbed the article after Rimalower got a bit a drubbing on Twitter from several performers of Asian descent. The new version - http://www.playbill.com/news/article/194106-World-Take-Me-Back-12-Musicals-Due-for-a-Broadway-Revival/pg11 - removes the reference to Pryce's casting. I think it would have been more ethical to leave the article as is and offer an author's note/update rather than trying to scrub the piece. It's 2014. Of course people will get screenshots.

All that said, to Rimalower's credit, he later said the following on Twitter:



And, thus ends Rimalower-gate 2014.






Updated On: 8/3/14 at 04:23 AM

[LizzieCurry]

Posted: 8/3/14 at 8:44pm

Holy. Thanks for sharing that! I'd missed it.

[Kad]

Posted: 8/3/14 at 10:08pm

The thing that always gets me about debates like that is how people so undervalue the power of representation.

Why do there seem to be so very Asian-American actors? Because young Asian-Americans weren't coming of age seeing many Asian-American actors in roles that were meaningful.

[lovebwy]

Posted: 8/3/14 at 10:15pm

Hooray for Ben Rimalower! #truth

Updated On: 8/3/14 at 10:15 PM