Plays with Music (Opinions Greatly Appreciated)

[gleedork14]

Posted: 10/13/09 at 10:34am

Hey all!

It's weird to post here for I haven't in years but I thought I give it another go. I am doing this project for an internship I have and I was wondering what other people's opinions are on the topic.

We know that we have straight plays and then full blown musicals. But then we have that gray area that is plays that have music in them. They aren't musicals persay but they aren't really straight plays anymore are they?

I just wanted to know from you all is, where is that line for you? What do you consider to be a play and what do you consider a musical? Lists opinions, types of plays or musicals. I have a lot of lists forming and I wanted to try and start to sort all my information. (I have examples such as Coram Boy, Rock n Roll, Hamlet to name a few)

Any opinions you can give me would be much appreciated.
Thanks so much.

[darquegk]

Posted: 10/13/09 at 10:40am

If the music is a consistent element of the show, it's a musical. If there are one or two songs here and there, but the balance of book to music is drastically off, it's a play with music.

It gets tricky. For instance, "A Very Potter Musical," which most of you have seen, is a little off-balance. Act 1 begins with a ten-minute song, but it's more than half an hour until anyone sings again.

[MariusPontmercy]

Posted: 10/13/09 at 11:22am

I think it's to do with the function of the music rather than the amount. If the songs in the piece are diegetic, i.e. the characters themselves are singers singing the songs within the story, then it's a play with music. If the songs are non-diegetic, it's a musical. Updated On: 10/13/09 at 11:22 AM

[Weez]

Posted: 10/13/09 at 11:23am

I've always looked at it this way: if they have a reason for bursting into song (giving a performance, or even just simply saying "I'm going to sing now!"), then it's a play with songs. If the singing is unrealistic (where someone would sit down and think for a few seconds, they instead sing their entire thought process; where someone is giving a speech, and it somewhat improbably ends with the whole town on their feet doing harmonies and dance steps), then it's a musical.

Something like Coram Boy or Hamlet is most definitely a play with songs. Also, I'd consider something like Jersey Boys or Dirty Dancing to be a play with songs.

Although it is a very confusing thing; even though I know basically what I consider a play, a play-with-songs, or a musical, I'm still not sure what to make of the National Theatre's current production of Mother Courage and her Children. I'd always considered it a play, and then I saw it, and I really really can't decide if it's a play with songs or a sneaky musical. I guess that's Brecht for you. *shrugs*

[madbrian]

Posted: 10/13/09 at 11:29am

When I think of a play with music, the first thing that comes to mind is Master Class.

[givesmevoice]

Posted: 10/13/09 at 11:30am

MariusPontmercy, thank you for reminding me that the word is diegetic. I've been trying to remember it and couldn't.

I mostly agree with your opinion that diegetic songs are more common in plays with music, but I learned about diegetic music when I saw Music in the Air at Encores. That's kind of straddling the line of operetta and musical anyway, but that's a show in which...I believe all of the songs are diegetic.


Oh, and I also think you could make a fairly convincing argument that Gypsy is a play with music.

Updated On: 10/13/09 at 11:30 AM

[elmore3003]

Posted: 10/13/09 at 11:31am

I've always considered both THREEPENNY OPERA and MOTHER COURAGE as plays with songs. MARAT/SADE has a fantastic score, too.

[South Fl Marc]

Posted: 10/13/09 at 11:40am

I was just about to say Marat/Sade. The music is incredible.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 10/13/09 at 2:17pm

I've always considered Threepenny Opera a musical. It really has the basic elements of a musical including an Overture and finales for each act as well as many songs firmly integrated into the plot.

One of my favorite examples of a play with music is The Grapes of Wrath. The songs and musicians were brilliantly used as backdrop and setting. And though it was categorized as a musical, I always felt The Dead played more as a play with music rather than a musical.

I don't think there is any steadfast cut-and-dry definition that delineates the play with music and musicals. It's really a combination of the amount of music, characters' involvement, the use of the songs, choreography, and the overall tone and intent of the piece. For example, Jersey Boys is very much about the music and the way the songs are performed and featured suggest that the show was intended to be a musical. In The Dead, the songs are performed by the characters, but mostly in meta form where most of the songs themselves have little to do with the plot, but rather abstractly define the characters, the period and the setting.

[angelxschunard]

Posted: 10/13/09 at 3:34pm

givesmevoice, I'd love to hear your argument!

[givesmevoice]

Posted: 10/13/09 at 4:42pm

haha, I don't know if I personally could make a good argument for it. But I can see how someone could.

[AwesomeDanny]

Posted: 10/13/09 at 4:59pm

I have a kind of related question: would the Disney movie "Enchanted" be considered a musical? Why or why not?

[dramamama611]

Posted: 10/13/09 at 6:36pm

Yes, of course...because the characters are seemingly unaware that they are singing.

[Mattbrain]

Posted: 10/13/09 at 6:37pm

"Yes, of course...because the characters are seemingly unaware that they are singing."

Except for Patrick Dempsey.

[peerrjb]

Posted: 10/13/09 at 8:06pm

"Dark of the Moon" is an excellent example of a Play which uses music throughout; most of it being "folk" music of the time and place. The piece is so operatic in its attitude, you can understand why the playwrights determined this approach.

The original "Peter Pan" (the play) has songs indicated throughout. It also cries for a musical score -- Leonard Bernstein wrote a score for the early 50's production with Jean Arthur and Boris Karloff. There were songs as well as underscoring. Back in 1978 I was paid to write a score for a production in LA, and we took the same concept. The play kinda needs the music.

Many consider "Lady in the Dark" a play with music. The writers did; it's just that the score became more popular and famous ("Saga of Jenny", "Tchaikowsky", "My Ship", etc.) and less dated than the HUGE script ever did, so it's usually called a musical nowadays.

[kvnd]

Posted: 10/13/09 at 8:36pm

I feel like if the music pushes the narrative forward, it's a musical. If music is there for music's sake, then it's a play. But everything can be blurred.

[Soliantu]

Posted: 10/14/09 at 1:36am

I say 1776 is more of a play with some music... There are very long dialogue scenes taking up most of the show, and on average a few have the characters have their "one" song. That show is more of a play to me than a full blown musical. Don't get me wrong though, I'm a a big fan of the show.

[mallardo]

Posted: 10/14/09 at 7:26am

Several Brecht plays include songs - they're in the scripts. The Good Woman of Sechuan is another one that comes to mind. The NT production of Mother Courage has new songs written for this production and there is a band onstage for much of the action.

[madbrian]

Posted: 10/14/09 at 8:29am

"I say 1776 is more of a play with some music... There are very long dialogue scenes taking up most of the show, and on average a few have the characters have their "one" song. That show is more of a play to me than a full blown musical."

I completely disagree. The information you note above only shows that it is a great musical, one that doesn't conform to any need to have a song every x number of minutes, nor to songs written to show off a performer. The songs are perfectly integrated into the story. The world could use more musicals like 1776.

[showbizzer]

Posted: 10/14/09 at 7:04pm

Imaginary Friends, starred Swoosie Kurtz and Cherry Jones. Nora Ephron wrote the book, Marvin Hamlisch wrote the tunes.

I saw this with original cast. It didn't leave a strong lasting impression but it would fit into the Play With Music category.

[gleedork14]

Posted: 10/16/09 at 10:05am

Thanks so much everyone! This is all extremely helpful!

[Hest882]

Posted: 10/16/09 at 11:55am

I say 1776 is more of a play with some music... There are very long dialogue scenes taking up most of the show, and on average a few have the characters have their "one" song. That show is more of a play to me than a full blown musical.

Soliantu, like MadBrian, I totally disagree. I think you may be more used to the post Andrew Lloyd Webber type musical, that are nearly all sung-through. Many, many musicals--probably the greater percentage of them throughout the history of musicals--have comprehensive books. You get long stretches of dialogue with no song.

I guess I'd consider something a straight play if you can take out the songs from it and the play still makes sense and creates a cohesive narrative AND if the percentage of songs is really low in relation to the spoken dialogue. (The only reason I added the 2nd part is because I think back to some old Hollywood musicals where there's a whole lot of songs but they seem really shoehorned into the plot.)

Updated On: 10/16/09 at 11:55 AM

[WestVillage]

Posted: 10/16/09 at 1:07pm

Piaf is a play with music, and def not a musical.