Frank Rich on Sondheim in New York Magazine- Page 2

[After Eight]

Posted: 12/3/13 at 7:12pm

Sally Durant Plummer,

I don't feel the need to post in every Sondheim thread, and I don't. Frankly, there wouldn't be enough time in the day to do so, so numerous and incessant are they.

The subject of this thread is not "Do you like Sondheim and if not, stay away. " The subject of the thread is "Frank Rich on Sondheim in New York Magazine," and that is the subject that I addressed in my post. I said nothing about my disliking Sondheim's musicals. I commented to express--- what? --- astonishment, exasperation, disbelief -- that Frank Rich has written yet ANOTHER paean to his idol. To what purpose? Hasn't he made his feelings abundantly clear many times over? What more does he have to say at this point, and why does he feel the need to say it? And more importantly, why do we need to hear it?

As for your complaint that you already know my feelings about Sondheim's musicals, rest assured that I -- actually, all of us at Broadway World --- know the feelings of his devotees equally well. Yet that doesn't stop them from repeating them again and again, to no complaints, either. What's good for the goose......

"So, please stop forcing your opinion on others who don't agree with you."

Sally, I'm not forcing my opinions on anyone, but if you see it that way, then I can say exactly the same thing: that his devotees are forcing their opinions on me, and, moreover, they do it far more abundantly than I. Personally, I would like to forget about him entirely, but it's hard to do when one is barraged by posts, links, ads, and announcements about his work every minute of the day.

[dented146]

Posted: 12/3/13 at 7:57pm

Thank you PJ. It was thoughtful of you and fascinating for many of us. Musical theater has undergone so many changes. Having lived the years Mr. Sondheim has created, I love hearing his thoughts as well as those who know the man.

Nice post.

[Lavieboheme3090]

Posted: 12/3/13 at 7:58pm

After Eight: "Personally, I would like to forget about him entirely"

Anyone Can Whistle
Assassins (musical)
Company (musical)
Evening Primrose (musical)
Follies
The Frogs (musical)
A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum
Gypsy
Into the Woods
A Little Night Music
Merrily We Roll Along (musical)
Pacific Overtures
Passion (musical)
Putting It Together
Road Show (musical)
Saturday Night (musical)
Side by Side by Sondheim
Sondheim on Sondheim
Sunday in the Park with George
Sweeney Todd: The Demon Barber of Fleet Street
West Side Story


None of that is worth discussing ever? Ever? Never again? We just close the books? Never mind that new people are discovering his works everyday. Please lets just shut down the museums while we are at it, we have all seen the paintings whats the point of looking at them AGAIN?

[indytallguy]

Posted: 12/3/13 at 8:42pm

"We're constantly told on this board that time marches on, that we have to move with it and embrace the new. Yes, embrace the new, except where Mr. Sondheim is concerned. "

I didn't realize we aren't allowed to embrace the new and cherish Sondheim. What I am most enjoying in relation to Sondheim is new productions of his works, ones which are helping me see his characters in a new light and deepening my understanding of the books of many of his shows.

[After Eight]

Posted: 12/3/13 at 9:02pm

LVB,

I've been told it's time for me to move on, not to live in the past.

If it's time for me, then it's time for everyone else as well.

Both Company and Follies are over 40 years old, you know?

Come to think of it, diddn't somebody write a song called "Move On?"

[Lavieboheme3090]

Posted: 12/3/13 at 9:26pm

Shakespeare's works are hundreds of years old. The Greeks writings are thousands of years old and we are still discussing those, so no it's not very surprising that we are still talking about brilliant works written a mere 40 years ago.

[After Eight]

Posted: 12/3/13 at 9:32pm

LVB,

I'm terribly sorry to tell you this, but you don't seem to get the point.

In any case, you like what you like, and I like what I like, and ne'er the twain shall meet.

[best12bars]

Posted: 12/3/13 at 9:35pm

At this point, I'm pretty sure that After Eight is Sondheim.

[Kad]

Posted: 12/3/13 at 9:37pm

There is absolutely no point in engaging with After Eight.

[best12bars]

Posted: 12/3/13 at 9:42pm

Truer words ...

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 12/3/13 at 11:02pm

"We're constantly told on this board that time marches on, that we have to move with it and embrace the new.."

I have to say I don't think I've ever been told that here, let alone constantly. And by what authority would anybody tell anybody else what to do, anyway?

[PalJoey]

Posted: 12/4/13 at 1:07am

After Eight: I cordially invite you not to post in any threads I start praising Sondheim. Your Malovolio-like presence and trenchant (if repetitive) comments will, as the expression goes, "go without saying."

You of course should feel free to restate your oft-repeated disapprovals in other people's threads, but as for the ones I start, you needn't waste our time--or yours--by commenting.

Thanks in advance,

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 12/4/13 at 1:49am

I vote we change the name of this thread to "Do you like Sondheim and if not, stay away." But I'd rewrite it as "Do you like Sondheim? If not, stay away. Away from the board, even."

[After Eight]

Posted: 12/4/13 at 1:55am

PJ,

Many thanks for your kind invitation.

Unfortunately, this is a discussion board, in which we are all free to discuss whatever is put out there.

Therefore, I must regrettably decline. And that way, you needn't feel equally obliged not to comment on anything *I* write. After all, I wouldn't want to deprive you of your digs.

So cheers. And a toast to Nobody Loves an Albatross and tuneful musicals.

(P.S. You'll notice I didn't post in your 1972 Follies movie thread. Truth is, I couldn't bring myself even to read it, much less comment upon it.)

Updated On: 12/4/13 at 01:55 AM

[WiCkEDrOcKS]

Posted: 12/4/13 at 2:05am

But seriously, I'll ask again, what makes After Eight any different than the trolls on here...? He's worse. He should've been blocked from posting a long time ago. Updated On: 12/4/13 at 02:05 AM

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 12/4/13 at 2:33am

"Enjoyed the article---however I am extremely puzzled by Rich's inability to understand the uniqueness of much of Merrily We Roll Along. Yes, the plot is flawed, but the second act truly captures the exuberance of the musical theater in the late fifties. And from Good Thing Going to Our Time, the music is brilliant. For some reason, even after 32 years, Rich shuts all this out. I just wonder why the chemistry between he and the show never seems to click."

It's been a while since I read his piece on it, but I believe he always praised the score. he was (very) disappointed by the production, as many were. Fair enough I think--and he has said that he's liked the revisions more, I believe (even if not everyone agrees.)

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 12/4/13 at 2:39am

"
The subject of this thread is not "Do you like Sondheim and if not, stay away. " The subject of the thread is "Frank Rich on Sondheim in New York Magazine," and that is the subject that I addressed in my post. I said nothing about my disliking Sondheim's musicals. I commented to express--- what? --- astonishment, exasperation, disbelief -- that Frank Rich has written yet ANOTHER paean to his idol. To what purpose? Hasn't he made his feelings abundantly clear many times over? What more does he have to say at this point, and why does he feel the need to say it? And more importantly, why do we need to hear it? "

After8, Rich is one of the producers of the Sondheim documentary airing next week. In fact, according to Lapine, when he became involved in their political comedy, Veep, he made the Sondheim project part of his deal with HBO, originally wanting to adapt Sondheim by Sondheim for the cable network. I'm glad they went this root instead. So there you have it--it's part of the publicity/interest pieces coming out because of the documentary, simple as that.

I don't think the 20 minute audio interview with Lapine on the film has been posted here yet, if it has, I apologize. Here's the link (it's from the Wall Street Journal.) A8, please don't listen. But then why would you--you obviously didn't read Rich's piece to even see if he DID have anything new to say, you just wanted to add your joy to this thread.

http://blogs.wsj.com/metropolis/2013/11/26/highbrow-lowbrow-taking-notes-from-stephen-sondheim/

Great article. I was lucky enough to see Rich and Sondheim speak in Vancouver --

[Idiot]

Posted: 12/4/13 at 2:21pm

"After 8, why is it that you feel the need to post on every single Sondheim thread just to bash him."

People who are not loved nor lovable tend to loathe those who are.

[Hest882]

Posted: 12/4/13 at 3:01pm

Thanks Eric. I hadn't seen that WSJ interview either.