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Dan Savage discusses bible at High School Journalism convention
Posted by Almira 2012-05-04 00:36:22



Brava!



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ao0k9qDsOvs

Dan Savage discusses bible at High School Journalism convention
Posted by ErikJ972 2012-05-04 09:18:04


Boo. I wonder how many minds he changed that day. There's never an excuse to call a bunch of high school students pansy asses. The message gets lost and becomes what he's preaching against. Stupid move.

Dan Savage discusses bible at High School Journalism convention
Posted by DurtyCurty 2012-05-04 10:46:48


It reminds me of the South Park bully episode.
It gets better when you become the bully yourself.

Dan Savage discusses bible at High School Journalism convention
Posted by JoeKv99 2012-05-04 11:04:27


I agree with Dan when he says he shouldn't have called them "pansy assed" but bullying it's not.

Dan Savage discusses bible at High School Journalism convention
Posted by ErikJ972 2012-05-04 11:29:24


An adult calling upset kids pansy asses in front of an entire auditorium of other kids is bullying.

Dan Savage discusses bible at High School Journalism convention
Posted by PalJoey 2012-05-04 11:38:06


He's got to decide whether he wants to go on being a sassy and outrageous provocateur or if he wants to continue in his post-It Gets Better role as spokesperson for the entire LGBT movement.

He can't be both--or he'll just go on being a lightning rod like this.

And, by the way, there's some evidence out there that the students walking out was planned in advance by Focus on the Family.

Dan Savage discusses bible at High School Journalism convention
Posted by DAME 2012-05-04 11:58:12


I think it was planned. Especially since the camera that captures the walk outs was positioned the way it was.

Dan Savage discusses bible at High School Journalism convention
Posted by JoeKv99 2012-05-04 13:25:09


Can we say that ganging up on an individual speaker and walking out in a group is bullying then?

Dan Savage discusses bible at High School Journalism convention
Posted by ErikJ972 2012-05-04 13:45:08


Joe...No. He was being inflammatory and the students who disagreed with him walked out silently without disrupting him. Plus...he's the adult, they were kids.
I just worked with the GSA of my school to get over 300 kids to participate in the Day of Silence. When we met with students who disagreed with the message we educated them through conversation...not by calling them names.
This just makes Dan Savage look like an asshole.

Dan Savage discusses bible at High School Journalism convention
Posted by soapguy17 2012-05-04 13:59:35


I agree wholeheartedly with Pal Joey. Savage's "jackass-ish" approach to "activism" as always rubbed me the wrong way and I assumed it would eventually come back and bite him in the rear end as soon as this "It Gets Better" campaign started. You don't have to have a degree in rhetoric (or even take the time to read about it) to understand why Savage reacting in the way that he did is only going to undermine the work he's doing.

Dan Savage discusses bible at High School Journalism convention
Posted by Phyllis Rogers Stone 2012-05-04 14:19:27


He's always been a lightning rod. Women, bisexuals, and heavier people are just groups off the top of my that head that I know to have all found things to be offended by him, whether justified or not. I feel like I hear more complaints about him from LGBQT people than I do anything else.

Also, I agree that perhaps we need to stop referring to every action we don't like by someone as "bullying."



Dan Savage discusses bible at High School Journalism convention
Posted by ray-andallthatjazz86 2012-05-04 14:40:23


When did he decide that he's the spokesperson for all LGBT people? There's definitely so many comments he has made that I've found offensive and just plain not true or reflective in any way of my political and personal values. A lot of famous LGBT academics like Judith Butler and Michael Warner have been very active in their dislike for him too. Most of all, he really annoys me.

Dan Savage discusses bible at High School Journalism convention
Posted by Phyllis Rogers Stone 2012-05-04 14:42:38


I don't think he's ever claimed to be a spokesperson for all LGBT people.

Dan Savage discusses bible at High School Journalism convention
Posted by FindingNamo 2012-05-04 14:46:05


Remember when Perez Hilton, of all queens, kept screaming at Will.I.Am in public, calling him a faggot? That's what I think of when I hear Dan Savage calling somebody a pansy ass.

Dan Savage discusses bible at High School Journalism convention
Posted by madbrian 2012-05-04 14:52:39


I'm not sure why anyone would invite Savage to speak at a HS journalism conference. He was being a jackass, but he was being himself. To me, there's blame to be assigned to whoever booked him.

Dan Savage discusses bible at High School Journalism convention
Posted by Almira 2012-05-04 14:56:42


I know I'm not coming from the highest moral or ethical plane, but I found it refreshing that someone I agree with gave it back as good as we've been getting it.

I will agree that he was bullying intellectually , but that is hardly the bullying that inspires fear for physical safety or a dangerously diminished sense of self worth. He challenged ideas and used "pansy-ass" to describe those too cowardly to examine their own belief systems.

Did he change minds? No. But his words, ideas and critiques can and probably have emboldened and encouraged those who have so often felt victimized but those who use the Bible to justify genuine bullying and other atrocities.

However imperfect the approach or situation, provocateurs have an important place in all social change. I often think we on the the left have been too pansy-ass ourselves when it comes to being bold in the assertion of our beliefs. There is place for Martin Luther Kings and Malcolm Xs in the pursuit of social and economic jusice.

If anyone was actually scarred by his comments, I feel deep sympathy for them, but I still admire Savage.







Dan Savage discusses bible at High School Journalism convention
Posted by Phyllis Rogers Stone 2012-05-04 15:20:50


Was this a Jesus school?

Is there any article or video that shows how the bible even came up in the speech? The video just starts with him talking about it.

All he said in the clip was that there's a lot of BS in the bible that people don't follow (and then gives all the examples we've heard before) but still use it as an excuse for homophobia. That's what made these journalism students leave. I don't see that referring to them as "pansy-assed" because of that makes Savage the dick.

Dan Savage discusses bible at High School Journalism convention
Posted by ErikJ972 2012-05-04 15:25:27


"I know I'm not coming from the highest moral or ethical plane, but I found it refreshing that someone I agree with gave it back as good as we've been getting it."

Who was he giving it back to? You don't have to be a bully to be offended by someone calling the bible bull****. Those kids didn't call him names and for all we know they're not bullies in their own schools. That's not the way you teach kids. It's not like he was addressing the Focus on the Family, he was addressing high school students.

Dan Savage discusses bible at High School Journalism convention
Posted by Phyllis Rogers Stone 2012-05-04 15:25:54


Also from the video, so like within a minute of the BS comment, "I apolize if I've hurt anyone's feelings, but I have a right to defend myself and to point out the hypocrisy of people who justify anti-gay bigotry by pointing to the Bible and insisting that we must live by the code of Leviticus on this one issue and no other."

Dan Savage discusses bible at High School Journalism convention
Posted by ErikJ972 2012-05-04 15:29:04


"I apolize if I've hurt anyone's feelings, but I have a right to defend myself and to point out the hypocrisy of people who justify anti-gay bigotry by pointing to the Bible and insisting that we must live by the code of Leviticus on this one issue and no other."

And which one of the kids he called a pansy ass did that?

Dan Savage discusses bible at High School Journalism convention
Posted by Phyllis Rogers Stone 2012-05-04 15:31:04




Dan Savage discusses bible at High School Journalism convention
Posted by Phyllis Rogers Stone 2012-05-04 15:31:04


I don't know. It's just a clip of the speech. It doesn't even give the lead up to how he started talking about the Bible in the first place.

Dan Savage discusses bible at High School Journalism convention
Posted by Phyllis Rogers Stone 2012-05-04 15:39:27


The Young Turks says the speech was about anti-bullying. Is that right? I still can't get any more info on the speech except for the three minutes that start after he says "The Bible."

Dan Savage discusses bible at High School Journalism convention
Posted by Almira 2012-05-04 15:54:35


I don't know the context of the entire speech either. The students were, I'm assuming, part of some Journalism Convention. The idea that Savage was there to "teach" them anything is unknown to me. But if he was invited to speak, we can assume, the organizers wanted to hear his opinions, including defenses for his opinions.

Again, I don't know the entire context, but I don't get the feeling from the clip that he is debating anyone specifically from the audience, just ideas counter to his own.

As for offending his audience by calling the portions of the Bible that sanction human slavery and the murder of women "bull****", was it inappropriate? Maybe. I personally find it telling that a generic two-syllable curse-word would invite more offense than the ideas condoning holding people in chattel and stoning women to death it describes.


This incident hasn't turned me against Savage. He may someday do something that does, but this isn't it. I still admire him.






Dan Savage discusses bible at High School Journalism convention
Posted by Mister Matt 2012-05-04 15:59:55


I know I'm not coming from the highest moral or ethical plane, but I found it refreshing that someone I agree with gave it back as good as we've been getting it.

I disagree. Savage seems like a total bottom.

Dan Savage discusses bible at High School Journalism convention
Posted by Almira 2012-05-04 16:01:18


I disagree. Savage seems like a total bottom.


Which is fine by me.

Dan Savage discusses bible at High School Journalism convention
Posted by Almira 2012-05-04 16:01:28


I disagree. Savage seems like a total bottom.


Which is fine by me.

Dan Savage discusses bible at High School Journalism convention
Posted by Phyllis Rogers Stone 2012-05-04 16:08:50


People should just Google for more information. It seems like the speech (perhaps the entire conference?) was about anti-bullying. How do you expect a prominent gay speaker to talk about anti-bullying and NOT talk about the bible? Especially since - with perhaps the exception of his terrible terrible mistake to use the awful terrible world-ending word "bull****" - is pretty much the same thing all gay people say when they are faced with deflecting homophobia.

I don't know, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe the best tack is to attack Savage, make allusions to him being like Perez Hilton, complain about how he's making it worse for all of us because by him being out there he's steamrolling all the good gays who know how to kowtow to the Religionists. Maybe Savage really is the problem.

At the very least, with Christians being so persecuted and so unheard in this nation, it's best to just pull out all the stops and go after Savage, without asking any real questions or digging any deeper.




Dan Savage discusses bible at High School Journalism convention
Posted by EricMontreal22 2012-05-04 16:46:40


His apology for saying pansyass was good I felt--much better than most times celebs apologize for saying such things.

Dan Savage discusses bible at High School Journalism convention
Posted by Phyllis Rogers Stone 2012-05-04 16:51:45


"I was not attacking the faith in which I was raised. I was attacking the argument that gay people must be discriminated against—and anti-bullying programs that address anti-gay bullying should be blocked (or exceptions should be made for bullying “motivated by faith”)—because it says right there in the Bible that being gay is wrong. Yet the same people who make that claim choose to ignore what the Bible has to say about a great deal else. I did not attack Christianity. I attacked hypocrisy. My remarks can only be read as an attack on all Christians if you believe that all Christians are hypocrites. Which I don’t believe."

Dan Savage discusses bible at High School Journalism convention
Posted by Phyllis Rogers Stone 2012-05-04 16:58:44


Is it possible the the female students leaving weren't offended, but just realized they hadn't been ritually purified after their last menstruation?

Dan Savage discusses bible at High School Journalism convention
Posted by Reginald Tresilian 2012-05-04 17:00:40


^ HA!!!

Dan Savage discusses bible at High School Journalism convention
Posted by Phyllis Rogers Stone 2012-05-04 17:06:19


The manufactured outrage over Dan Savage's remarks about the Bible that inspired what appears to be a staged walkout at a high school journalism conference may appear on its surface mostly to be a last stand of the anti-gay movement to regain ground by attacking one of the most compelling pro-gay activists in the country. And it is, but winning the immediate battle is really only the tip of the iceberg of what the right is trying to accomplish with this feigned outrage and claims that Savage is a "bully" because he accurately recounted what is in the Bible. It's an attempt to redefine acceptable discourse so that statement of uncomfortable facts is considered off-limits, and, in fact, is redefined as "bigotry." Unfortunately, some people are taking the bait, such as Jay Michaelson writing for the Daily Beast, in a tone that made it clear he would prefer to write from a prone position on his fainting couch, smelling salts strapped to his laptop. See, Michaelson is incredibly concerned that criticizing Christian teachings on homosexuality is bad for the gays.

Michaelson would be easy to write off as a concern troll, but to make things worse, he speaks a falsehood about Savage's remarks. He says Savage's remarks "represented a notable gay leader affirming that one must choose between sexuality and religion, between God and gay." This is demonstrably untrue. In fact, if you actually read Savage's remarks, he said the opposite:

"We can learn to ignore the bull**** in the Bible about gay people. The same way, the same way we have learned to ignore the bull**** in the Bible about shellfish, about slavery, about dinner, about farming, about menstruation, about virginity, about masturbation. We ignore bull**** in the Bible about all sorts of things."

What Savage was clearly saying was that it's homophobes who are presenting a false dilemma with their claims that you have to denounce homosexuality to be a Christian. He was pointing out that it's easy to reconcile pro-gay sentiment and Christianity by just doing what Christians are already doing when it comes to shellfish and slavery, which is preferring their own moral judgment over the Bible. So either Michaelson is lying about what Savage said, or he didn't bother to read the comments he's denouncing, or he has poor reading comprehension.

He does try to suggest that it's the last one when he claims that the Bible's condemnations of homosexuality "can be understood literally, narrowly, and with virtually no application to loving, same-sex relationships." Well, no, not if you have basic reading comprehension skills. Leviticus is straightforward on this: "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination." Unless Michaelson believes that sexual penetration between a man and a woman can't be loving, then this is straightforward: Gay sex is like straight sex, and therefore it's an abomination by Biblical standards. (Plus, is Michaelson suggesting that it's okay to be anti-gay in those cases where gay sex, as straight sex often is, isn't in the context of committed, loving relationships?) Savage is closer to the truth of how Christians (and Jews, too) handle these kind of Biblical verses they don't agree with: They ignore them. His advice is how religious people actually reconcile their faith to reality; Michaelson taking umbrage is, at best, nonsensical, and at worst, some kind of weird ax-grinding that has no respect for the truth.

Which is basically what this entire Savage dust-up is about. The American right is undertaking a huge project of trying to put right-wing politics beyond criticism by shouting "religious bigotry" any time someone gets in the way of their political agenda. If they can create a consensus that it's somehow off-limits to criticize teaching that gay people are subhuman as long as you wrap it up in religion, that gives them a huge political advantage. Taken far enough, merely stating out loud in public that you don't believe gay people are evil could be cause for the fainting couches to be pulled out and accusations that Christians are being oppressed. Sounds ludicrous? Well, consider that we're currently debating whether or not it's oppressing Christians to accurately state what's in the Bible. Anyone who is actually supportive of gay rights shouldn't be playing along with this feigned umbrage. It won't stop until opposing anti-gay actions is considered completely off-bounds on the grounds that it's an attack on religion.


Dan Savage discusses bible at High School Journalism convention
Posted by TheatreDiva90016 2012-05-04 19:29:20


“No. He was being inflammatory and the students who disagreed with him walked out silently without disrupting him.”
He didn’t make the “pansy ass” comment until well after the kids walked out.
And my question is, they knew who Dan was when they went (or else they are just kids looking for a place to hang out), so why are they walking out? Were they trying to make a statement? Because all I saw were intolerant assholes who didn’t like what they were hearing.

And, as far as the ‘It Gets Better’ program… I’ve always hated it. Don’t tell kids in a small town, to post the videos and expect themselves to be treated any better because they are announcing they are gay. Tell them to keep their heads down, and their mouths shut until they move out of Redneckville and into a city that is tolerant.

“Also, I agree that perhaps we need to stop referring to every action we don't like by someone as "bullying."

THANK YOU! There was just a story on the news about a dolphin who is trapped in low waters off of our coast and they are saying that the dolphin was ‘probably bullied’… Really?! STFU.

Dan Savage discusses bible at High School Journalism convention
Posted by romantico 2012-05-04 20:01:58


This is getting good.

http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2012/05/04/noms-brian-brown-challenges-dan-savage-to-a-bible-debate

Dan's response:

http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2012/05/04/confidential-to-noms-brian-brown-youre-on-mother****er

Dan Savage discusses bible at High School Journalism convention
Posted by Phyllis Rogers Stone 2012-05-04 20:11:26


Ha. NOMnuts!

Dan Savage discusses bible at High School Journalism convention
Posted by JoeKv99 2012-05-04 20:13:22


I really don't get the vehemence of the hatred for Dan Savage. He's an advice columnist. He's not a gay role model and never said he was. He was invited to speak at a journalism conference- the kids walked out (hard to believe spontaneously) and he called them pansy-assed for doing so. One can question his prudence in saying it, but truly, if they expect to be journalists, they are going to hear a lot worse than that on a regular basis. Being a journalist is all about challenging beliefs, investigating rumors, not letting your personal dogma influence your writing. Sounds like having Savage there was just the lesson these kids needed to learn.

Dan Savage discusses bible at High School Journalism convention
Posted by Phyllis Rogers Stone 2012-05-04 20:15:57


And again - the horrible, deplorable use of the word "bullsh*t" aside - what he said wasn't all that bad. It just wasn't.

I still wish I could find the whole speech, though.

Dan Savage discusses bible at High School Journalism convention
Posted by JoeKv99 2012-05-04 20:33:48


It's the right-wing outrage machine at work. Just like when Barack Obama talks about how he ordered Bin Laden killed and the fact that Willard Romney said it "wasn't worth moving heaven and earth" to kill one guy and the right wing can whip up that that is somehow offensive and people buy into it.

I'm with Almira. The bible is full of bull**** and someone who is afraid to hear that discussion is a pansy ass. Might as well say it.

Dan Savage discusses bible at High School Journalism convention
Posted by SNAFU 2012-05-04 22:37:00


I also agree that the walkout was staged. The camera angle was too perfect to record every tortured look of the crucifix clutching believers as the tears ran down their young cheeks.

Dan Savage discusses bible at High School Journalism convention
Posted by PalJoey 2012-05-04 23:36:21


I have high hopes for Dan in this debate. It's the sort of thing he does well, and Brian Brown is a nincompoop.

As long as he stays away from invective and just debates the issues, he'll win the debate handily.

Dan Savage discusses bible at High School Journalism convention
Posted by FindingNamo 2012-05-05 01:22:42


"Tell them to keep their heads down, and their mouths shut until they move out of Redneckville and into a city that is tolerant."

I think that is what they say.

Dan Savage discusses bible at High School Journalism convention
Posted by TheatreDiva90016 2012-05-05 02:22:14


No, they seem to make the kids think they are going to be safe after they post a video of themselves online, coming out to the world.

All it does is out a great big target on their backs.

Dan Savage discusses bible at High School Journalism convention
Posted by xxdrewboy85xx 2012-05-05 03:05:17


I applaud the school ( public school?) for allowing Dan Savage to even speak.

I agree with his points, I can see how some here find his tone jack-assy, and I didn't really think the "pansy-ass" comment was really bullying at all.

Dan Savage should, however, take note from Martin Sheen President Jed Bartlet on talking about the bible!

Dan Savage discusses bible at High School Journalism convention
Posted by ray-andallthatjazz86 2012-05-05 04:45:57


TheatreDiva, I have to agree with you about the "It Gets Better" campaign, for me it just comes off as a bunch of overprivileged white people--usually celebrities of sorts or some other version of upper middle class white gay men--talking about how they are doing so well. I don't find that message necessarily useful for the kids (many of whom belong to racial minorities and/or are working class) who deal with every day bullying that it just "gets better," because actually for many of them it doesn't.

Dan Savage discusses bible at High School Journalism convention
Posted by Borstalboy 2012-05-06 15:31:25


"It Gets Better" was a really well-intentioned undertaking that went off the rails and through sheer repetition, became empty.

Did Dan ever say himself that it wasn't that all that well thought-out?

Dan Savage discusses bible at High School Journalism convention
Posted by TheatreDiva90016 2012-05-06 15:35:45


No, but I'm just waiting for the video footage of him running around San Diego while naked and screaming at passing cars.

Dan Savage discusses bible at High School Journalism convention
Posted by Phyllis Rogers Stone 2012-05-06 18:55:50


Last week, as you've no doubt heard, Dan Savage gave a speech to a national convention of high school journalists in which he criticized Christians' use of the Bible to excuse mistreatment and discrimination aimed at gays. This spurred a walkout by a small group of Christian students who were in attendance, followed by a frenzy of accusations that he was "bullying" them.

I have to admit, when I first read this, it was hard for me to see why anyone was upset. Savage correctly pointed out that the Bible contains many immoral rules which are widely ignored by Christians today: rules that permit slavery, for example. He did use a mild profanity, "bullshi*", which I'm sure high schoolers hear worse than every day. His use of the term "pansy-assed" to describe the students who fled was less defensible, but he's already apologized for that, and it wasn't what prompted the walkout; they were already walking out when he said it. To his credit, he's refused to retract the rest of his remarks. And why should he? They were indisputably true!

But what I overlooked was the vast persecution complex and almost parodic sense of victimhood possessed by Christian apologists, who in response to Savage's speech have collectively lost their minds. They have such a palpable need to be the victims that, whenever anything happens that looks even slightly like persecution, they immediately whip themselves into a shrieking frenzy and exaggerate what they've suffered beyond all recognition.

For instance, the apologist Mark Shea made a beeline to the Nazi comparisons, because calling the Bible "bull****" is exactly the same as sending Christian families to death camps. Another commenter, Ted Seeber (the Inquisition fan I discussed earlier this week), said that gay people want "the extinction of all who oppose them" and threw in some bonus panic over the concentration camps he assumes gays are building.

What this comes down to is that the self-appointed defenders of Christianity can't tell the difference between criticism of their ideas and hateful attacks on individual believers. This is nothing new, but since anti-bullying campaigns are in vogue, they've wrapped themselves in that mantle, as demonstrated by Fox News in their usual manner. We saw this as well in the Christian responses to the Reason Rally, where Richard Dawkins' call to mock and scorn irrational beliefs was immediately and universally interpreted by Christian apologists as a call to bully religious people.

So, for the professionally confused, let's clarify some things: Bullying is a form of emotional abuse which takes the form of targeted coercion, harassment, intimidation, and violence against people who lack power to fight back. Savage had no special power over the people at his talk; they weren't a captive audience. And his speech neither coerced Christians to do anything, nor harassed or intimidated them, nor called for any violence. It was, again, a criticism of bad ideas in the book they claim to believe in. When Christian teenagers are committing suicide in despair over being bullied by atheists and atheist school administrators are fighting efforts to do something about it, or when gay advocates are counseling parents to beat their children until they renounce Christianity, then these Christians will have a valid complaint, but obviously nothing like this has happened.

I think that this hysteria arises partly from cognitive dissonance. As I said, the religious right has a need to be the victims; their holy book predicts that they will be. But this clashes with the uncomfortable reality that Christians, far from being an oppressed minority, are instead a powerful and dominant majority, and are using their power to vigorously fight minorities who are seeking equal rights. Obviously, Christians don't like thinking of themselves in the role of Rome. Their subconscious awareness of that fact creates cognitive dissonance, which they resolve by seizing on any perceived persecution, however flimsy, and frantically brandishing it. Crass political calculation doubtless plays a part as well; the religious right, stung by accusations that they encourage bullying of gay teenagers, thinks the best way to fight back is by claiming to be victims of exactly equal and opposite mistreatment.

There's one more thing I want to say, which is that what most stands out about these Christians is - and there's really no nice way to put this - their remarkably whiny and self-pitying response to criticism. Historical Christianity exalts its martyrs, to the point of lovingly cataloging their gruesome deaths and tortures, like this saint who's often depicted holding her own eyes. The Bible instructs Christians to rejoice and consider themselves blessed when they're persecuted (Matthew 5:11-12). Does this sound even remotely like the behavior of these modern-day Christians, who aren't experiencing anything nearly as bad?

Dan Savage discusses bible at High School Journalism convention
Posted by Kad 2012-05-06 19:10:20


The religious right is the most paranoid majority I can think of in history. Everything is an attack on them, threatening to loosen their tenuous hold... but nothing actually is attacking them, and they've actually got a vice grip on society.

Anyone who advocates atheism is attacking them.
Anyone who is not heteronormative is attacking them.
Anyone who dares to be inclusive of other religions is attacking them.
Anyone who questions them is attacking them.

Dan Savage discusses bible at High School Journalism convention
Posted by Phyllis Rogers Stone 2012-05-06 19:13:16


And yet, all Dan Savage has to do is say what the bible says about gay people is bullsh*t and they have lots of gay folks clamoring for their defense.

Dan Savage discusses bible at High School Journalism convention
Posted by Kad 2012-05-06 19:15:20


Unfortunately, I think the religious right's resurgence in this election cycle has a lot of people in the gay community trying to either lay low or appease them.

Dan Savage discusses bible at High School Journalism convention
Posted by doodlenyc 2012-05-07 11:01:58


The It Gets Better campaign never was never intended to tell kids to come out on video so that they can have a big target on their back in their hick town or whatever.

That's ridiculous.

The only intent was to encourage those who are going through the bullying that so many of us also went through to realize that it'll get better once they are out of that situation, share their own experiences and to promote The Trevor Project. Encouraging kids to try to stay in there and persevere because once they are able to get out of that situation, things get better.

I have never understood the problem with that intention.

Dan Savage discusses bible at High School Journalism convention
Posted by Phyllis Rogers Stone 2012-05-07 21:44:41


Maggie Gallagher weighs in.

A few years ago, beauty queen Carrie Prejean innocently answered a question about gay marriage with a polite 'no.' She was viciously personally attacked by Miss USA pageant judge Perez Hilton, who posted a video of himself cursing at her.

Prejean was eventually stripped of her crown, and as for Perez Hilton? 'I'd love to have him back,' pageant owner Donald Trump once said. 'I mean, I'd love to have him back' -- although he didn't actually do it.

That was a seminal moment for American culture wars. Nobody could protect Prejean, while Hilton suffered no visible consequences for his grotesque violation of civilized norms of behavior.

That, of course, was in the entertainment business.

Still, we should not be that surprised that just three years later, sex columnist Dan Savage used an invitation to address a high school journalists conference to curse and swear at students who hold to traditional views of Christianity.
Savage is no marginal figure.

He visits the White House. His anti-bullying project has its own corner on President Obama's website. He has a syndicated newspaper column, and a television show on MTV.

Prediction: None of that will change because he is taking a little media hit for inexcusably bad behavior in front of other people's captive schoolchildren.

Savage, who apologized only for calling the students who walked out 'pansy-assed' (pardon me), has only this to say in his own defense: 'It wasn't like I sneaked up on a Bible study class and commandeered the podium. I'm like the devil. You have to invite me in.'

Yes, of course. Normal standards of civilized behavior are apparently not required of Savage. Nothing he has done before, including denouncing norms of monogamy or boasting about spitting on the doorknob of a presidential candidate to make him sick, led the conference organizers to pause before inviting him to speak -- none of that has led to anything for Savage but greater acclaim, money, power, prestige and applause.

Why in the world would he stop now, for goodness' sake?

Savage has a clear vision for America: It will be a place where, in order to remain respectable citizens, Christians (and others with traditional moral views) will simply have to drop not only Leviticus, but Genesis, and oh by the way, Jesus' own words in Matthew 19.

Christian moral understanding of sex, gender and marriage will simply have to change, Savage asserts. Why? Because he and others say so. To do otherwise is to be mean to him and other gay people. Our very existence, our identity as both good Christians and good citizens is an offense to him.

Once it was enough to accept norms of civility -- to speak and treat each other with respect in spite of our important moral differences and disagreements. That was so 2003. Now gay leaders expect that those who disagree with them will be silent or face a wall of wrath.

The American people are not yet on board with this historic re-valuation of values. That's clear from two new polls this week showing that the Marriage Amendment in North Carolina, despite being outspent and virtually orphaned by national conservative figures, is set to win by anywhere from 14 points to 20 points.

This is the same week when Rod Dreher wrote a blog post, 'The Rout of the Right on Gay Marriage,' claiming, 'I know my fellow social and religious conservatives don't like to hear this, but Daniel McCarthy explains why we can't win the gay marriage fight.'

Actually, Rod, I understand your pessimism, but please drop the 'nobody likes to hear this, I'm being brave' pose. You are among a large number of conservative elites who want to declare the war over and get out of the way. Everyone looking at the wall of hatred coming our way wants to duck, including me.

But the American people have not yet gotten the memo.

The will to lose on gay marriage among conservative elites is palpable. But thankfully, the consequences of permitting marriage to be remade in the image of the Dan Savages of America are now equally clear. When Dan Savage's side wins, support for gay sex and marriage will not be optional.

Even a schoolchild can see that.

Dan Savage discusses bible at High School Journalism convention
Posted by orangeskittles 2012-05-08 00:47:06


Matthew 19 is about divorce. America has long-since abandoned those traditional moral views, so why shouldn't the verses referencing homosexuality be dropped as well.

Dan Savage discusses bible at High School Journalism convention
Posted by PalJoey 2012-05-08 20:20:14


Thomas Roberts does pretty well here, but Dan Savage will have to do even better in an actual debate:

http://www.towleroad.com/2012/05/robertsone.html