Research

[MadameRoseRules]

Posted: 8/9/08 at 11:24pm

Hi, Broadwayworld. I have heard that Broadway people have the best and most effective grapevine on the planet so I'd like to ask your help. I've been researching the real Rose Thompson Hovick of "Gypsy" fame and was wondering if there's anybody out there who ever knew her. If so, please email me. It's a bit of an uphill battle to try and locate people who knew a woman that passed away in 1954, but there's got to be somebody out there who did. I'd appreciate your help.

Thanks!

Updated On: 1/21/09 at 11:24 PM

[TheEnchantedHunter]

Posted: 8/10/08 at 10:47am

Your best bet is to research the Vanity Fair article written around the time of the Bernadette Peters revival that will tell you everything you need to know about Rose Hovick and more from first hand sources.




Selena Cross
Peyton Place,New Hampshire

[Dollypop]

Posted: 8/10/08 at 12:53pm

There's Gypsy Rose Lee's book GYPSY

June Havoc's book EARLY HAVOC

Eric Preminger's book GYPSY AND ME (Eric is Gypsy's son)

All three might have leads for your research.

Posted: 8/10/08 at 1:20pm

And all three embroider, fudge and downright lie.

[BrodyFosse123]

Posted: 8/10/08 at 1:56pm

Embellishing facts is a trait they all inherited from Rose Hovick, though I would take Erik's word over his mom's and aunt's.

[CurtainPullDowner]

Posted: 8/10/08 at 2:32pm

Also.
MORE HAVOC
It's almost unreadable, but there are tidbits about Rose's lesbian friends and her death.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 8/10/08 at 3:14pm

CurtainPullDowner--you knew her personally, didn't you?

Back in your younger days, before you became a Downer?

[SimplyDeLovely]

Posted: 8/10/08 at 8:09pm

I definitely agree with the previous suggestions to read Early Havoc, More Havoc, Gypsy, and Gypsy & Me.

I've read the first three of those four and they will surely provide you with lots of information (though I'm still left curious about some things). The two "Havoc" books were hard finds and you may have to look at a vintage bookseller for them, but it's worth it.

[MadameRoseRules]

Posted: 8/10/08 at 8:14pm

Thanks for the suggestions, everybody. Actually I have all of the books mentioned.

If anybody, anywhere, knows anyone who knew the real Rose, it would be such a help to me to be put in contact with that person. I'm seriously considering turning my research into a book and I need to find some Rose Hovick eyewitnesses.

Updated On: 1/21/09 at 08:14 PM

[ljay889]

Posted: 8/10/08 at 8:34pm

It's going to be extremely hard to find someone who really knew the real Rose.

[MadameRoseRules]

Posted: 8/10/08 at 8:52pm

You've got that right, lj889! It's something of a "Mission Improbable." Still, Rose lived in New York City towards the end of her life, in the late 1940's and early 1950's, so hopefully there's an old-timer out there, somewhere, who can shed a little light on that most intriguing woman.

[BrodyFosse123]

Posted: 8/10/08 at 11:53pm

Being realistic here, no one old enough to have known Rose Hovick would know about reading any Broadway Message Boards, let alone anything remotely involving a computer.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 8/11/08 at 12:07am

Except CurtainPullDowner.

Updated On: 8/20/08 at 12:07 AM

[MadameRoseRules]

Posted: 8/11/08 at 10:08am

You never know, BrodyFosse123. I've got an 80 year old relative who's just got a computer and is now online daily...and I'm actually finding a lot of information out about the Hovick family by posting on some other message boards. I think it's worth a shot to post on here.

Posted: 8/11/08 at 10:20am

Did you ask TooDarnHot? I'll bet he knew her and has LOTS of inside dope.

[MadameRoseRules]

Posted: 8/20/08 at 1:08pm

Ah, surely you jest!

[BkCollector]

Posted: 8/20/08 at 1:44pm

I've done a fair share of old fashioned research in this area myself, mostly to satisfy my own questions, the biggest of which is "why does Broadway idolize possibly the most odious character every written (Iago notwithstanding)" and when I was about 14 I interviewed an older man who knew Rose very well, at least intimately. Not everything I heard I believed, but some of what I heard was too bizarre to make up. In general, she was a nasty, spiteful woman who used her children without regard for their well-being and was uttlerly unscrupulous. How the character became beloved by millions still escapes me. I imagine if Rose's lesbianism and (possibly) murderous ways were left in the book, it would have been different, But even as it is, I don't see how she is an effective hero, being totally devoid of compassion.
Updated On: 8/20/08 at 01:44 PM

[BradMajors]

Posted: 8/20/08 at 3:53pm

BK, in reality the musical GYPSY is "suggested by the memoirs of Gypsy Rose Lee". It was always (at least up until the 1973 Lansbury revival) billed as "a musical fable". It was an embellishment, a re-working, a re-invention of fact into a piece of entertainment. It's not supposed to be the definitive tell all on Rose, June and Louise Hovick.

Even THE SOUND OF MUSIC was a fictional reworking of the life of Maria Von Trapp. The real Maria Von Trapp was nowhere near the person either Mary Martin or Julie Andrews portrayed and certain details were either consolidated or deleted to make a cohesive stage show.

The real Rose Hovick may not have been someone to admire but the fictional Rose Hovick written for the stage by Arthur Laurents is one of the meatiest musical roles ever written for an actress.

[BkCollector]

Posted: 8/20/08 at 4:19pm

Meaty yes, but virtuous, no. what bothers me is that no one EVER talks about how horrible she is as a character, even in the show. no regard for her children's feelings, or her fathers, or Herbie's or anyone else's.

the show is dramatic and poignant, and you feel for the children, and Herbie, but nowhere does it point the finger of blame where it belongs, squarely at Rose herself.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 8/20/08 at 4:24pm

what bothers me is that no one EVER talks about how horrible she is as a character


Uh, okay. I've seen the character described as "monstrous" on more than one occasion.

Sounds like someone has mommy issues, though.

[MadameRoseRules]

Posted: 8/21/08 at 2:30pm

BKCollector, I'm fascinated by what you are saying and would love to know more about the man who knew Rose Hovick. Could you possibly send me a PM?

Updated On: 1/21/09 at 02:30 PM

[WOSQ]

Posted: 8/21/08 at 4:05pm

Post a notice at SAGE down in the Village. I bet someone there knew her.

[ggersten]

Posted: 1/27/21 at 9:36am

Here she is boys. Here she is world. Here's Rose (If I've done this right, it should start playing at 20:00) This is from "I've Got A Secret" August 28, 1952. But the embedded video doesn't seem to want to start at 20:00. But, this link goes to the right time: https://youtu.be/PeRmuVd_MHY?t=1202

 

Updated On: 1/27/21 at 09:36 AM