Really stupid GYPSY question

[morosco]

Posted: 7/12/07 at 11:08am

I'm somewhat embarassed to ask this but here goes. During the last scene in the dressing room with Momma Rose and Louise, Louise says to Rose "I thought you did it for me Momma". What should be Louise's intent with that line? Is she sincere? Is she being sarcastic? It's arguably the most significant line in the show. I've seen it played different ways with different actresses.

[Kringas]

Posted: 7/12/07 at 11:10am

I think the implication is that she's being snide. I don't think I've ever seen it played were that wasn't the subtext.

[morosco]

Posted: 7/12/07 at 11:13am

So perhaps she's saying that to pacify Momma?

[WaltSummersPI]

Posted: 7/12/07 at 11:14am

Not at all. She's saying it to point out to her mother that EVEYTHING Rose has ever done has been selfish.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 7/12/07 at 11:15am

Like most classic Arthur Laurents crisp dialogue--in this script as well as others like The Turning Point--there are multiple meanings, usually anger and hurt. This gives the actress playing it many different ways of balancing the conflicting emotions.

[ahmelie]

Posted: 7/12/07 at 11:17am

I've always looked at it as though she was recalling how she felt about it in the past. At how naive she had been in thinking her mother only wanted to help her. So, if I played the role, there would be a level of sincerity to that line, but I think Louise is smart enough to understand what her mother is doing by that point in the show.

But that's only if I played her, so it's one of those things that's open to interpretation.

[Kringas]

Posted: 7/12/07 at 11:18am

So perhaps she's saying that to pacify Momma?

Oh, I don't think so at all. I think it's very pointed line. Rose says "What did I do it for?" and Louise says, "I thought you did it for me." I think Louise knows damn well that Rose did it for herself.

[WaltSummersPI]

Posted: 7/12/07 at 11:19am

I'm not sure if I agree with that... is there EVER a point in the show where Louise thinks that Rose is watching out for her? Rose does things for June, certainly, but Louise has always come across to me as a character who knows she's on the backburner, and by the time she has to step up, she knows just who her mother is.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 7/12/07 at 11:25am

Yes, when Rose tells young Louise that she has a "call"--that's supposed to stand in for all the moments when Rose told Louise that she was "special"--just not pretty and talented like June.

[WaltSummersPI]

Posted: 7/12/07 at 11:27am

Oh, hmm... that's a good point. Thanks.

[Kringas]

Posted: 7/12/07 at 11:29am

It should be noted the when june was around the act had June's name in the title, but when Louise is the star of the act, Rose originally titles it with her own name and no mention of Louise at all.

[WaltSummersPI]

Posted: 7/12/07 at 11:32am

True enough, but the name they settle on "Rose Louise and her Hollywood Blondes" is Louise's full name.

[Kringas]

Posted: 7/12/07 at 11:38am

Right, but not until Louise demands it. And in the show you never know Rose Louise is her full name, so it really implies that Rose is trying to horn in on Louise's billing. The point I was making was the she named the act after June when June was just a child, but Louise is a young woman and Rose tries to completely shut her out of the act's billing.

[robbiej]

Posted: 7/12/07 at 11:39am

PJ is right. Like all great writing for the theatre, there are many ways to interpret this moment (and really, most moments in GYPSY).

Since I'll never play Louise (except in my apartment), I try think about this as if I were directing the musical.

I ask myself, what is Louise trying to accomplish with this line. And, for me, it would be to hurt her mother. Now, being snide and dismissive can absolutely work. But for me, personally, I think it's more hurtful to make the line somewhat sincere, to let Rose know the true damage she caused and that, now, Louise sees her for what she truly is.

[Kringas]

Posted: 7/12/07 at 11:44am

I personally don't think playing simply sincere and and hurt (without playing the pointed snideness of the line) works in the scene, not only because of the blow up that precedes it, but also because it's that line that sets Rose over the edge and drives "Rose's Turn." That's just me, though.

Updated On: 7/12/07 at 11:44 AM

[Dollypop]

Posted: 7/12/07 at 11:52am

I don't know if it's a spelling glitch in Joye's posting, but the word isn't "call". It's "caul". Babies born with a caul have a thin membrane over their faces that have to be removed at the time of their birth. Supsertition has it that caul babies are good fortuneteller and have "luck" in their lives.

sometimes a caul is referred to as a "veil".

[morosco]

Posted: 7/12/07 at 11:54am

I'm now starting to think that Louise might be meaning, "I can't believe that I was stupid enough to think over the years that you were doing it for me". Would that make sense?

And I'm not trying to re-write Laurents' dialogue. Just trying to describe the actor's motivation.

[Kringas]

Posted: 7/12/07 at 11:57am

I'm now starting to think that Louise might be meaning, "I can't believe that I was stupid enough to think over the years that you were doing it for me". Would that make sense?

I don't know. I guess on some level it does, but I think by that point Louise has long since realized what the score was. Not only that, but Rose has made a scene in front of Louise's guests. I really think it's less about Louise being hurt and more about Louise hurting Rose.

[robbiej]

Posted: 7/12/07 at 12:01pm

Well...I do agree with you, Kringas. It can't simply be sincere and hurt on Louise's part. I do think there is a very hard edge to it...an edge she probably learned from Rose. I think delivering that line actually entails a lot of skill. You have to be dismissive...but the line, I think, also has to come from some absolute truth. Otherwise, why would it set Rose off?

[Kringas]

Posted: 7/12/07 at 12:06pm

Oh, I think there's truth to it. I think you and I are probably just two sides of the same coin on this. I wouldn't be surprised if our living room interprations of the part are very similar. You should see my salute to the Garden of Eden.

Natalie Wood delivers the line really well in the 1962 movie, I think.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 7/12/07 at 12:08pm

I actually think that what Arthur had in mind was not really sarcasm, but Louise letting Rose know she couldn't be hurt anymore: "I'm on to you, Mother. I know your tricks. I see through you."

Who's "Joye"? ;-}

Updated On: 7/12/07 at 12:08 PM

[morosco]

Posted: 7/12/07 at 12:09pm

You should see my salute to the Garden of Eden.

lol!

[Kringas]

Posted: 7/12/07 at 12:12pm

I actually think that what Arthur had in mind was not really sarcasm, but Louise letting Rose know he couldn't be hurt anymore: "I'm on to you, Mother. I know your tricks. I see through you."

Wouldn't that mean it would have to be sarcastic, though? If she sees through Rose, she'd no longer think Rose did it for her.

[doodlenyc]

Posted: 7/12/07 at 12:24pm

Morosco, I think this is one of the smartest Gypsy questions I've heard recently.

I am in the camp that it depends on the actress. I've heard it accusing, revealing, nasty and pleading (my least favorite) but Benanti and LuPone go to the bone and I LOVED it...Patti's reaction is the best part of this production for me.

...that and Electra..."I'm electrifyin', and I aint even tryin'"

[WaltSummersPI]

Posted: 7/12/07 at 12:26pm

*snort*

I love that delivery.