“We See You White American Theater” Publishes Demands- Page 5

[broadwayguy2]

Posted: 7/17/20 at 1:22pm

I read this whole thread. Now I need to go make a WHOLE pot of tea. There is SO much within this thread that would comical if the topic were not the passions and livelihood of people and their perceived worth as artists and humans.

I won't say very much here because, frankly, I'm not wearing any bomb proof protection and this field of landmines is a wreck.

This subject is not a linear path to an end point. It is a VERY complex maze of countless moving parts.

What I will say is this:

Are there a lot of racist people? ABSOLUTELY.

Can you disagree with things in this document - even as a white person - and have it not be rooted in racism? ABSOLUTELY.

And that group of people who disagree are precisely the people to engage with - from both sides - to identify blind spots, to learn and exchange knowledge, and to hopefully help all of us get to a better place in the future. Doing that, however, requires that you begin from a place of recognizing that the end goal is common and that, as passionately and deeply as you feel, the actual fight is not with one another.

[blaxx]

Posted: 7/19/20 at 9:52am

Kad said: "While Broadway’s onstage diversity has certainly improved a great deal, the overwhelming majority of backstage and creative roles are usually white. Directors, writers, designers, producers, etc. The people who make the decisions and control the budgets. And look at every major casting office and you will rarely see someone who isn’t white working there. "

That's the whole point. You can cast the token minorities in the ensemble or produce the one Black or Latinx production of the season. But don't get confused, everyone behind the business will always be a white majority.

Once this BLM fad passes, the American theater will continue its reign of white supremacy. It hurts me immensely, but that won't change within our lifetime. Broadway as we know benefits and will continue to benefit mostly from being lead by white professionals. And if you are an exception, you are still living within an environment that benefits white professionals, you just managed to get in during a PC moment.

Broadway is and will always be racist, and no current movement or initiative is strong enough to change that. Power to those who hope for a different outcome, but it is not a place for minorities to thrive. 
 

Updated On: 7/19/20 at 09:52 AM

[HogansHero]

Posted: 7/19/20 at 11:04am

Well that's definitely the pessimistic route, blaxx. I prefer the optimistic one. What you are saying is what folks said before LBJ shocked the country by doing what JFK didn't. No, what followed was not full equality, and yes we are seeing pathetic backtracking now, but there is no question that what we have today is an improvement over 1964. And that's what we need now in the theatre. Will it be total? No. Can it be a material improvement? Yes. How will it come about? I don't know but I will toss one idea at you: we are in a period of disruption due to Covid-19. Things are not going back to before. There will be parts of the white "establishment" that will not be here on the other side. That is an opportunity, not a cause for despair. I proposed here months ago that what's needed is for black entrepreneurs to take ownership of one of the major landlords. Do you think that would change the landscape some? 

[blaxx]

Posted: 7/19/20 at 11:19am

HogansHero said: "Well that's definitely the pessimistic route, blaxx. I prefer the optimistic one. What you are saying is what folks said beforeLBJ shocked the country by doing what JFK didn't. No, what followed was not full equality, and yes we are seeing pathetic backtracking now, but there is no question that what we have today is an improvement over 1964. And that's what we need now in the theatre. Will it be total? No. Can it be a material improvement? Yes. How will it come about? I don't know but I will toss one idea at you: we are in a period of disruption due to Covid-19. Things are not going back to before. There will be parts of the white "establishment" that will not be here on the other side. That is an opportunity, not a cause for despair. I proposed here months ago that what's needed is for black entrepreneurs to take ownership of one of the major landlords. Do you think that would change the landscape some?"

Yes I am pessimistic, but so is the system. A few changes won't affect the way things operate at its core. 

Where I'm trying to get at is that BIPOC professionals need to find their own forum and show the world that their talents are just as worthy as anyone else's, instead of trying to keep humiliating themselves and fight for a place in an environment where they have never been truly valued. Decades of white folks thriving while minorities are always a second thought, why keep fighting to find a place in a community where your chances of winning the lottery are higher than making it there?

BIPOC professionals deserve better than to endlessly fight for a voice. 

[HogansHero]

Posted: 7/19/20 at 11:32am

so you want separate but equal. 

no thanks. not my thing. and not what the demands point to. 

[blaxx]

Posted: 7/19/20 at 11:43am

HogansHero said: "so you want separate but equal.

no thanks. not my thing. and not what the demands point to."

Of course it's not "your thing". Imagine gay people trying to convince straight folks to be better represented at their bars. Heck no, we don't need that - we will open our own bars, thank you.

I truly don't get what's so special about thriving in environments that favor a certain group or race. Would having a tiny bit more inclusion really make a difference in the way you're represented in a place where you're not wanted to begin with?

I would love to see what white professionals do if BIPOC artists refuse to work in their productions for a year or two. See if that changes their perspective when no minority is begging them to be allowed in their club house. 

[HogansHero]

Posted: 7/19/20 at 12:18pm

blaxx said: "HogansHero said: "so you want separate but equal.

no thanks. not my thing. and not what the demands point to."

Of course it's not "your thing". Imagine gay people trying to convince straight folks to be better represented at their bars. Heck no, we don't need that - we will open our own bars, thank you.

I truly don't get what's so special about thriving in environments that favor a certain group or race. Would having a tiny bit more inclusion really make a difference in the way you're represented in a place where you're not wanted to begin with?

I would love to see what white professionals do if BIPOC artists refuse to work in their productions for a year or two. See if that changes their perspective when no minority is begging them to be allowed in their club house."

We will have to disagree about that, but let me just point out how lousy your gay analogy is. That ship sailed a long time ago and the fact that you seemingly have not noticed the evolution probably says more about your age and out-and-about-edness than anything else. 

ETA: Your last paragraph, in addition to being a meaningless question, betrays a "plantation mentality" and seems to miss the point. 

Updated On: 7/19/20 at 12:18 PM

[blaxx]

Posted: 7/19/20 at 12:27pm

HogansHero said: "... the fact that you seemingly have not noticed the evolution probably says more about your age and out-and-about-edness than anything else."

Oh you got personal, how nasty. 

[HogansHero]

Posted: 7/19/20 at 12:31pm

I did not mean it nasty at all. It was just a guess about something that would inform your analogy. Being of a certain age is not a bad thing, and not going to bars regularly is also not a bad thing (even when it is/was possible).

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 7/19/20 at 2:23pm

I would love to see what white professionals do if BIPOC artists refuse to work in their productions for a year or two. See if that changes their perspective when no minority is begging them to be allowed in their club house. 

They would be just fine, I'm sure. You seem to have an issue with straight white people. Weird. 

[blaxx]

Posted: 7/19/20 at 5:13pm

Sutton Ross said: "I would love to see what white professionals do if BIPOC artists refuse to work in their productions for a year or two. See if that changes their perspective when no minority is begging them to be allowed in their club house.

They would be just fine, I'm sure. You seem to have an issue with straight white people. Weird."

Having an issue with straight white people running the world is weird?  Ok.

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 7/19/20 at 5:34pm

I said nothing about running the world. You just seem to have a problem with straight, white people in general. That's all that I said. 

[Mr Roxy]

Posted: 7/21/20 at 6:57am

Time for your medication Jonah

[Nocredits]

Posted: 7/21/20 at 10:03am

blaxx said:

"Once this BLM fad passes..."

It's not a fad and it can will never pass until there is true equality.

 "Broadway as we know benefits and will continue to benefit mostly from being lead by white professionals."

Wrong. White professionals are the ones that benefit form Broadway not the other way around as you stated. It comes off as you saying that  White people are what make Broadway good and successful. Good, entertaining, meaningful and profitable art is not an exclusively white creation or at least in no longer should be. Yeah they have the majority control on what happens or does not happen but that is not because they have a monopoly on knowing what good art is. 

"Broadway is and will always be racist, and no current movement or initiative is strong enough to change that. Power to those who hope for a different outcome, but it is not a place for minorities to thrive."
 

This is where you are mistaken again. The idea is not to simply  thrive or even thrive past anyone. It is simply all about equality at the end of the day. Also who are you to tell minorities where they can thrive or not? The langue you are using is the same that was used to keep minorities out of many educational and work environments throughout history. "Ivy leagues are no place for minorities..." You are giving way too much credit to white people and their success and not enough to folks who fight for and seek change in a world (in this case broadway) that they have every right to want to be a part of.