High School Musical Blues!

[MacMorighan]

Posted: 6/21/20 at 9:37pm

Hey guys!  Albeit's been years since I've been in High School, I've always been curious if anyone had an almost impossible time getting roles for plays and musicals because one of two students were cast in everything?

In fact, auditioning for them was basically a formality!  But, they received advantages not available to everyone else.  If I had known then that I could take voice lessons at a major university renowned for its vocal department, I'd have begged my parents to sign me up for lessons!  Nevertheless, I swear, my former choir director seemed to choose musicals to highlight these students!  In fact, looking at the musicals that were produced while these ingenues were students, it looks like my suspicions are valid.

After all, when we did "The Music Man" she got THREE solos--the most solos per character by far in the whole production!--including the duet, "Till There Was You!" Now, if this had been the only instance I'd dismiss it as an anomaly, but consider this: our HS also put on "Seven Brides for Seven Brothers" where she was cast as Milly, and beside getting a solo, she had solo moments in almost every single song in the whole freaking show!

No one else would have got as many songs to sing in a musical! In fact, after she graduated the spring musical was "Camelot," which had a far more equitable cast with the solos far more evenly dispersed! She was even the only name from our HS whose name our choir director submitted to the All-State Choir performance. I really have little respect for teachers like this!  My fellow classmate was also extremely conceited, so I have little respect when she stopped getting roles in NYC since her only two professional musical performances were, like in HS, mere formalities!

Now, if I had been a choir director and chosen the shows/ casting, there would be a strict rule that if a student got one lead role they would never get another one in order to give the other students a chance to shine!  There were other VERY good singers who never got a leading role since the musicals were cast just to highlight a single student.

Anyhow, I was just curious if anyone had to endure this sort of thing during HS that inhibited your ability to perform, but also negatively affected your confidence going forward?  For example, our useless High School guidance counselor--who shat on your dreams unless you came from money!--told me in front of my folks that I had no talent in music and shouldn't pursue it!  But, he'd never heard me sing before!  And, when in college, under the teachings of an amazing voice teacher, I was singing like Streisand and Linda Eder (this was from my voice teacher's own mouth)!  Just imagine how much more confidence I'd have had and how much more of a competition I'd have been to the "talented" kids (who took auditions for granted) if I'd had similar advantages to them.  In fact, because of this boost of confidence, when they graduated everything just fell in their laps with little work.

[MollyJeanneMusic]

Posted: 6/21/20 at 9:46pm

I definitely had a similar experience with my school musicals.  The problem in my school was they always did shows that were split into half girls and half boys, even though we had MANY more girls interested in the musical than boys, and didn't allow for gender blind casting for the most part.  The girls who always got the major parts always belted, too, and unhealthily - rather than mix if they had to or if it sounded better, which is what I did.  I did my tenth grade musical as a part of the ensemble, then just switched to working behind the scenes for this year, which ended up getting cancelled.  I'm probably not even going to do the senior musical, if one even happens, especially now that I've found a community theatre in my area that lets teenagers into many of their musicals.

[MacMorighan]

Posted: 6/21/20 at 9:49pm

I was also really put off by the fact that when our choir director had printed off sheet music with which to audition she had two stacks: one intended for ancillary and chorus roles that was basically spoken in rhythm (she gave me one of these), and to the folks who would land a leading role she gave an actual song that was sung! So, she clearly knew ahead of time who she would cast. Yet, after the graduation of her ingenues, she didn't bother to help students prepare any audition materials--and few of us could play piano to learn music on our own; we had to prepare something on our own!

[MacMorighan]

Posted: 6/21/20 at 9:54pm

You are lucky to have a community theatre in your area, especially one that does musicals! I do not; and those that produce musicals are rare. I was in the community theatre when I was in college, and the first musical they put on (EVER!) was West Side Story, which I couldn't audition for as I'd moved over an hour away. I was bit miffed, but had to laugh at the cosmos's sense of humor.

[MacMorighan]

Posted: 6/21/20 at 10:07pm

Oh, and when we performed Camelot, despite having more than enough roles to go around, without her belting ingenues our choir director removes several numbers from the show, such as "Follow Me" sung by Nimue! Granted, Merlin's dialogue was still there; but there was no song to sing during that dialogue. Looking back, that seemed rather petty and undemocratic for a PUBLIC high school.

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 6/22/20 at 12:16am

If you can't handle the rejection you face in high school, you probably don't have the stuff to face the far greater rejection you will face in professional theater.

High school directors have a lot to consider, not just who sings pretty well, but who has demonstrated their willingness to put in the work, and who can be relied upon to "carry" a show when most of the cast are amateurs with a lot of conflicting interests and responsibilities. (YOU may know what a hard worker you are, but your director may not have seen it yet.) Some high school directors have commercial-like pressures, including making enough money on each show to pay for the next one. They can't afford--or may feel they can't afford--to risk the entire program on unproven talent. Is this the way it should be? Probably not.

I'm sorry you didn't get the opportunities and training you wanted, but you have your whole life to make up for that. High school won't be the last "dry period" you will face.

[gypsy101]

Posted: 6/22/20 at 5:14am

there was a girl who was an absolute dynamo vocally, she was 5 feet tall and could belt her face off. she played reno sweeney and then the next year played dolly levi, however they for some reason didn't get her the alternate belter keys so she sang the carol channing keys up the octave which while slightly strange was pretty fierce (she sang soprano in chorus so her range was crazy). then for some reason some parents complained that their kids never got to star in the high school musical which is preposterous, so in beauty and the beast she played the feather duster. it was a little lame for sure though the same guy that played evelyn oakley and horace van der gelder also played lumiere so they did end up together in 3 musical in a row which was cute. i played the porter in anything goes then barnaby tucker in dolly, i'm a high tenor so when i auditioned for beauty & the beast i had no clue who i could play but they for some reason cast me as the beast. it was cool to finally play the lead.

[MacMorighan]

Posted: 6/22/20 at 9:11pm

My comment has nothing to do with rejection, but about High School productions that were patently unfair in the sense that the musicals were chosen to highlight a single student or student to whom auditioning was a mere formality! After all, the fact they she received 3 solos plus a duet in one production, and a leading vocal role in every song in the other is almost certainly not a coincidence! Our choir director chose them intentionally to highlight a particular student so that she would have a a substantial Diva-worthy resume on her eventual college application. As a result, it was almost impossible for anyone else to have a chance during an audition, which was pretty clear anyway by the nature of the biased audition material material that she handed out. Auditioning was basically a farce! Had the productions and auditions been more equitably distributed I wouldn't have the slightest complaint. In fact, if I had my way over the productions, if a student had already won a leading role they were not allowed to receive another one; they'd have to sing in the choir of the production. Furthermore, the fact that our choir director was extremely biased when her precious ingenues graduated was demonstrated during her production of "Camelot" because she omitted certain songs and roles entirely because she could find no one "worthy" to sing them during a B.S. high school production that's hardly professional theatre in any sense. For example, Nimbi's role was omitted from the production along with her song "Follow Me" (Merlin just spoke to her off stage as our choir director played the piano), and while we had a Morded, he had no song to sing! If our choir director was fair in any sense she would have made the best of what she was given, rather than trying to re-shape the musical to her expectations and demands.

[MacMorighan]

Posted: 6/22/20 at 9:17pm

To reiterate, my point was that it was nearly impossible to get any sort of a role in the musical productions because to one or two students auditioning was a mere formality! In fact, it's pretty apparent that productions were chosen specifically to highlight and demonstrate a single ingenue! In fact, following their graduations it was also apparent that our choir director was doing this because she stripped down the show by totally removing roles and songs entirely, which was a fairly petulant decision.

[MacMorighan]

Posted: 6/22/20 at 9:24pm

I wish that someone at my High School would have complained! In fact, if she actually had to work for a role for once, I think it would have been good for her character since she was highly conceited! But, my town tended to bend over backwards for these kids (especially if one came from money!). For example, to give these kids an extra boost in confidence and college resume credential they were allowed to read the regional news on the local radio station. This is a responsibility that no one else was been given since!

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 6/22/20 at 11:52pm

Mac, by "rejection" I meant any circumstance where you didn't get the role you wanted. If shows were chosen to feature others, you were in essence "rejected" by those choices, whether or not you eventually auditioned.

I seriously doubt your choir director was worried about helping kids pad their resumes. I taught at a nationally famous theater school and even sat on the admissions committee: nobody gave a damn about high school resumes. Performers had to audition and their skills were ascertained from that process.

I know you don't want to hear this, but the fact that you evaluate roles by counting solos demonstrates how little you know about musical theater. And that's okay: you are young and you have time to learn. But a lot goes into casting a show other than counting the number of times each person sings. If your director was giving one girl a solo in each of the ensemble numbers, then maybe she just liked that kid's voice!

Life. Is. Not. Fair. And the theater is even less so!

If performing is that important to you, continue to work on your skills in college. Audition for any show, any director that will let you try out. Create your own productions if you can't get into somebody else's. (I realize this last advice isn't always possible in high school, but things get a little freer in college.) Good luck to you. But you will drive yourself crazy if you expect anything in the arts to be "fair". Hard work helps, but a lot of it is who you know and sheer luck.

[dramamama611]

Posted: 6/23/20 at 10:17am

I'm going to be very blunt here, my whole post is blunt - and I'm sure some of you will accuse me of being a bully.  Too bad.   This is why you don't give trophies for just showing up.

  If you are already out of college and STILL bemoaning the unfairness of your hs theater program, I suggest you remove the very large chip on your shoulder.   It was likely in the way back then and will continue to be in your way.  

You are talking about your "perception" of what happened.  And while I don't doubt it FELT the way you are describing, it isn't the full truth.  (Our perception of anything is never the complete truth.)   I've been cast in shows as leads, supporting characters, chorus as well as not being cast at all.   The only time I didn't learn something (about myself or theater) were the times I was bitter throughout about the cast list.

I'm also a hs director - we do three mainstage shows a year, all of which I cast.  (The musical has the benefit of getting input from both my MD as well as the choreographer - the decision is ultimately mine.)  My children also attended the same HS, and they were fully warned that I would have to be harder on them just to fight the perception of favoritism.  My daughter never was cast as anything past a townsperson in straight plays and once was put in the small ensemble (a step over general chorus).  WHY?  She wasn't good enough. My son took over as head of the lights crew as a sophomore, because he was the only one ready and willing to do the job.  And he was terrific.

 

 

MacMorighan said: "Hey guys! Albeit's been years since I've been in High School, I've always been curious if anyone had an almost impossible time getting roles for plays and musicals because one of two students were cast in everything?

Kids that get cast "in everything" are often those both most at ease with themselves, those that are confident as well as having some talent.  In my world, that also includes kids that work their asses off to be an asset.  Grfanted, I cannot speak to your specifics.  But when I first started teaching, we had a powerhouse family.  Three girls.  All fabulous singers, all had some acting ability, with one being VERY good.   But they worked HARD.   The youngest didn't get a lead in her MS musical.  She was devastated - after all, her 2 older sisters did.  But she pulled up her big girl panties and did a terrific job in the ensemble. I had a young man (who was a classmate of the older gilrs)  tell me he was glad, because everything (performance wise) just fell into that families laps.  And he couldn't wait to take over their summer student run program in a few years just to NOT cast her again. And guess what?  He cast her in the leading role of that show a year or two later: because she was right for the part.  And he knew it, and all that mattered was the show

In fact, auditioning for them was basically a formality! But, they received advantages not available to everyone else. If I had known then that I could take voice lessons at a major university renowned for its vocal department, I'd have begged my parents to sign me up for lessons! Nevertheless, Iswear, my former choir director seemed to choose musicals to highlight these students! In fact, looking at the musicals that were produced while these ingenues were students, it looks like my suspicions are valid.

Advantages not available to everyone else? How is it your director's fault you didn't know about  voice lessons?

When CHOOSING a show to produce, OF COURSE one has to consider the likely suspects.  If I can't imagine at LEAST one person in the major roles, why would I choose it?   If I don't have any boys that could pull off Hamlet, for example, I would be a fool to put that on my season.  Does that mean they ARE pre-cast?  No - but  it doesn't mean those people might not end up with the parts either.  Granted, I cannot speak to your exact situation - because it is certainly possible that minds were made up.

Auditioining IN HS is vastly different than in the real world.  Because I know most of my auditionees very well, I can and do take in things beyond "just" the audition. Sometimes that works in an actor's favor, sometimes it works against them.  (Ok, it's not that different - because that stuff still happens professionally, too.)

After all, when we did "The Music Man" she got THREE solos--the most solos per character by far in the whole production!--including the duet, "Till There Was You!" Now, if this had been the only instance I'd dismiss it as an anomaly, but consider this: our HS also put on "Seven Brides for Seven Brothers" where she was cast as Milly, and beside getting a solo, she had solo moments in almost every single song in the whole freaking show!
 

This is the part that confuses me the most - if she was cast as Marion, she's going to play the entire role as written.  (I'm not terribly familiar with 7 Brides)  What, exactly, did you want to happen.  That a chorus person should sing Till There was You?


No one else would have got as many songs to sing in a musical! In fact, after she graduated the spring musical was "Camelot," which had a far more equitable cast with the solos far more evenly dispersed! She was even the only name from our HS whose name our choir director submitted to the All-State Choir performance. I really have little respect for teachers like this! My fellow classmate was also extremely conceited, so I have little respect when she stopped getting roles in NYC since her only two professional musical performances were, like in HS, mere formalities!

Hmmmm...Guenevere sing EIGHT songs in Camelot.   In What "professional" performances were you talking about? WAS she in professional productions wh ile still in HS? Then you have to agree, others saw whatever made her special beyond your school.  Frankly, I'd be more pissed that a hs would choose to do a show with so few femaile roles!

Now, if I had been a choir director and chosen the shows/ casting, there would be a strict rule that if a student got one lead role they wouldnever get another one in order to give the other students a chance to shine! There were other VERY good singers who never got a leading role since the musicals were cast just to highlight a single student.

THAT would be a ridiculous rule.   Now you want to PUNISH kids for being versatile, talented?   If that's your rule, by senior year you'd be giving some pretty UNTALENTED people leading roles.  WHAT would be anyone's incentive for sticking around OR working hard.  Not all good singers can act.  Not all good singers are "right" for the available roles.  When you cast a show, you are trying to choose the best cast you can.  Your idea suggests that everyone and anyone can handle a leading role, and that the end product means nothing.  Would it be okay to cast someone just to have them be humiliated on opening night - because they really didn't have what it takes?   

Anyhow, I was just curious if anyone had to endure this sort of thing during HS that inhibited your ability to perform, but also negatively affected your confidence going forward? For example, our useless High School guidance counselor--who shat on your dreams unless you came from money!--told me in front of my folks that I had no talent in music and shouldn't pursue it! But, he'd never heard me sing before! And, when in college, under the teachings of an amazing voice teacher, I was singing like Streisand and Linda Eder (this was from my voice teacher's own mouth)! Just imagine how much more confidence I'd have had and how much more of a competition I'd have been to the "talented" kids (who took auditions for granted) if I'd had similar advantages to them. In fact, because of this boost of confidence, when they graduated everything just fell in their laps with little work."

So, your voice teacher, whom you paid - and wanted to KEEP being paid, told you you sang like Steisand and Eder.   Additionally if you had control of your voice like that IN HS, you likely would have been more noticed.  BUT YOU DIDN'T.   Some people bloom later in life.  And maybe, just maybe, not being cast is what made you work harder to achieve that voice.  I'm not sure how any of that is the fault of your HS program.  Your hs director is not a private tutor.

And here is another chip on your other shoulder:  "they" just had everything fall in their laps.   You don't know their struggle.  Sure it might seem that way - but you have no idea.   They could have a parent that pushes them to the limit, or abuse in the family (of any kind), or anxiety,   They could fall apart at home every single day.  You know not of their stories, of their demons.   Just like I can only judge you by the words you have written on this thread.  It's only a part of who you are.

Your following posts just highlight you as a person with an ax to grind.  Looking back, that seemed rather petty and undemocratic for a PUBLIC high school. Your entire thread is petty and who ever said public high school was democratic?    It's not and as Gaveston said - the world is not "fair".  You wanted someone to make complaints...why didn't you or your parents?  I have students that complained about our chorus teacher for YEARS.  NO one, including parents, would say a word - didn't want to be blackballed from solos.  Once a few parents DID (mostly justified) complain, the teacher was made aware of the perceptions and brought through some training.  He's better.  (Not great, but definitely much better.)   If you aren't part of the solution......

 

Trust me, when you let go of those boulders you've been carrying around, you're going to feel a lot better.

 

Updated On: 6/23/20 at 10:17 AM

[kdogg36]

Posted: 6/23/20 at 12:44pm

It’s only vaguely related to the details of this discussion, but this thread brought back memories of a series of articles in the Baltimore Sun about a high school production of West Side Story. I have re-read and savored these articles several times over the years - such a vivid picture of youthful angst, friendship, and triumph. ​​​​​(I admit that, looking back, there’s a notable lack of diversity in the cast of characters.) The articles are available at the link below, and I highly recommend giving them a read if you have a spare hour or two. 

A STAGE IN THEIR LIVES

[MacMorighan]

Posted: 6/24/20 at 12:04am

Galveston, I know perfectly well what you mean by rejection, and being rejected had nothing to do with my feelings and views, and especially not with this thread. However, my post did highlight what shouldn't be a part of public schools, which is intentional bias by the teachers involved to intentionally highlight a single student or two that made it virtually not worth even auditioning when they were enrolled. This was apparently by the audition material our choir director dispersed unequally. In fact, the productions were chosen specifically to highlight and advantage that one student above all others. In fact, when those students graduated and the choir director no longer had the talent she was accustomed to, despite allowing less talented students a chance to shine, she simply removed songs and whole singing roles entirely! For example, she totally omitted the role of Morgan Le fey in Camelot, and removed Modred's song!

[MacMorighan]

Posted: 6/24/20 at 12:17am

Dramamama, actually, yes, in subsequent interviews, she did say that things just fell in her lap and that auditioning was a mere formality her whole life as a professional.

Also, you're looking at it from the wrong perspective. Not allowing uber-talented folks not to walk away with every role would not only make them more hummble (they were horribly conceited as a result!), but it would have opened up the understudies, etc. to having a leading role just ONCE! In fact, having a more equitable chance would have done wonders for my life-long performance anxiety. These uber-talented students would actually make fun of me when I'd be called to sing in choir.

At the time that I was in HS several fellow students say things my way, agreeing with me that no one had a chance at a leading role with them auditioning, and that the director was nearly biased in favor of them at the exclusion of others who were almost as talented.

Neither did I say that it was anyone's fault that I didn't know that I could have taken private voice lessons. But, I wish that information was made more available. I'd have begged my folks to have signed me up! But, I take DEEP offense of your insinuation that my voice teacher--teaching at a college--would make such a compliment about my voce just because he was being PAID by me! He is a professional, and far better than most voice teachers teaching nowadays!

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 6/24/20 at 1:05am

Dude, if you were anything like your posts in high school, I would not have cast you either.

There is such a thing as "directability" (I'm inventing the word, maybe, but the concept is around even at the highest professional levels). Your obvious inability to listen to others--especially dramamama, who is this board's resident expert on this subject--suggests you would not have been easy to guide if you HAD been cast in a lead role.

In any event, it is really time to move on. Whether high school is one's "glory days" or a nightmare, it is all temporary.

 

[CATSNYrevival]

Posted: 6/24/20 at 1:20am

I thought this thread was going to be about a blues cover album of High School Musical and I was so ready to Bop to the Top.

[Ravenclaw]

Posted: 6/24/20 at 2:01am

When I was in high school (about 10 years ago), we did Evita and everyone knew who the show was chosen for--the star senior who had played every lead role since her sophomore year. Everyone bemoaned--why are we even auditioning when this show was only chosen with the knowledge that only one person has any shot at the star role? Do we all really want to take part in basically a glorified showcase for her? And she knew she had it in the bag, too--and so she showed up to her audition thoroughly unprepared and (according to rumor) hung over. So the role of Evita went to another senior who had only ever been in the ensemble or small featured roles before. This girl worked her butt off and did a considerably good job. We all assumed that the system was "rigged" but it turned it that it wasn't--the teachers gave the lead roles to the students who they felt best deserved it. This is always going to be a subjective decision in some respects, but that's true whether you're doing high school theatre or Broadway or anything in between.

Some good news: after high school, nobody in the world cares what you did in high school. Students get admitted to top college theatre programs with only ensemble roles on their resumes all the time. And the kids who come to college having played every lead role in their four years in high school are often the first to switch majors when they are turned down for a role the first time (but there's no shame in that--it's a tough industry that really isn't for everyone).

High school can feel like the entire world when you're in it, but once you leave it, most people realize how small that world was, and what were once huge concerns now look like trifles. I felt similarly to you in high school, but I've let go of most of that resentment (well, except for the rehearsal schedule of 35 hours a week--I still think that's ridiculous and unhealthy for students in school all day). I hope you gain some perspective. I'm sorry your high school teachers knocked your confidence, and I'm glad you have a teacher now who is helping build that back up, but if you are planning on being a working actor, you have to accept and make peace with the fact that nothing will ever be fair. If you keep on counting the number of solos and comparing your resume to other people's, you will never be satisfied. 

[Speed]

Posted: 6/24/20 at 2:14am

When I was in high school, I went to a theater summer camp and the same guy booked all the roles I wanted.  It was frustrating. 10 years later, I made my Broadway debut and at the opening night party, guess who was working the party as a cater waiter?

True story.  Your time will come.  Be ready for it.