Madonna's MDNA Album & Singles Chat- Page 5

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 3/20/12 at 9:35pm

We've been over the thin line thing several times, right? And you keep insisting "the critics and fans alike" are raving about it. So of course I am curious.

[tazber]

Posted: 3/20/12 at 9:42pm

The way you keep mentioning the critical praise it's like you're trying to convince yourself it's a good album.

[songanddanceman2]

Posted: 3/20/12 at 9:42pm

and really love her

[songanddanceman2]

Posted: 3/20/12 at 9:44pm

lol Yes Tazbar, that is exactly what i am trying to do, i am trying to convince myself this is a good album *rolls eyes*

And Namo admit you loved the Girl Gone Wild video.....go on, just a little bit.

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 3/20/12 at 9:45pm

What would Madonna have to do to redeem herself in your eyes, FindingNamo?

It will be interesting to hear what you think (if you do listen to it) - I've noticed you've tried to be fair in your criticism and given credit where credit is due. You never know...this might be the record where she sneaks back into your affections.

Updated On: 3/20/12 at 09:45 PM

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 3/20/12 at 10:02pm

I would actually love it if she came up with something so good I was blown away. I swear, I would say so if she did so.

I tried watching the video but it was going in fits and starts with buffering issues, I assume because so many fans and critics alike are trying to watch it. So I gave up after seeing about a quarter of it. I appreciate how she is striving to find new and different ways to cover up Those Hands and Those Arms. I particularly like the things that look like black censorship bars on her hands.

I agree with Taz on the general air of fans trying to convince themselves it's better than it is, from the first 60 second clips onward. That's why so early in this thread I said it reminded me of Stones fans when Goats Head Soup came out. You should have SEEN people trying to believe how good it was. "No, seriously, 'Angie' is just as good as 'Ruby Tuesday'! It's easily their best album in quite an amount of time!" I hear echoes of that now.

I guess it's not going to be possible for Madonna to blow me away because what does she have to be invested in creating music for, other than her contractual obligations? She doesn't need to try very hard to release something that's merely good enough for that purpose. And honestly, why should she bother at all if people are just going to steal the ish anyway??!

So, she's at the stage where you can hear the antecedents from her oeuvre in every new song. Look! It's the Act of Contrition again!!! I HAVE A RESERVATION!!! Remember the good old days? That's fine, even David Bowie reached that stage. Although, unlike Madonna, he still retained his sense of taste and discovery when he decided to collaborate with people in the later stages of his career.

But I would like us all to join hands and remember this: If she ever bothers to release another album of new material, we will see how quickly MDNA gets lumped in with Hard Candy and the other fan unfavorites and how that new cd will be the "return to form/back to the dancefloor/just plain good old fashioned FUN!" that "we've all been waiting for since Ray of Light!" My words. Mark them!

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 3/20/12 at 10:18pm

And, just out of curiosity, what prevents you from enjoying her live shows? Presumably you still enjoy the stuff from her heyday.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 3/20/12 at 10:33pm

I saw "Drowned World," "American Life" and "Confessions" tours and half way through that "Confessions" show, a switch went off. The seats were the most I had ever paid for a concert ticket (and they were mid-level tickets!), there was no air conditioning so as to protect the golden thrush's voice (even though the two background singers carry all the melodies), she OF COURSE, lip synched through the first song ("She always does! Cuz it's like aerobic yoga!!" or some such excuse her defenders keep at the ready.), the themes were banal, the monkey bars were stupid, and then she demanded that the audience jump continuously through "Jump" because she was "working my ass off up here." Yes, dear, that's what the high ticket prices are compensating you for doing. I just had had enough.

Mere moments after that, she did what she did at all three live shows I paid my money to see: she flipped off her audience. It's like I realized at that moment it was the one honest gesture she was actually capable of. I believe it was the one moment she believed and it was the one common thing with each of the shows I saw on all three tours.

And that was it. I was done. Some holiday came a few months later and I was given my first (and only) iPod and I had no desire to put my remarkably near-complete Madonna collection into my library. Well, "Santa Baby" is in there with the rest of that Xmas album but that is it. I was going to just sell the cds and take some cash, but I never got around to it and they're sitting in a box in storage even as I type. I was officially over and done. I went in an impressive instant from being a fella who bought tickets to three shows in a row to feeling a little queasy over how much money I had spent on her over the years.

So, the rehabilitation of Madonna might have come during the Superbowl show, the event that almost made me love that little homophobe Prince again, but unlike a lot of people, I wasn't that moved. Remember when somebody here posted that performance somehow elevated her to the level of "great American"? Eh. But it IS phony/funny that she pretended to be all up in sinewy arms that MIA flipped the bird. ("That's MY SIGNATURE MOVE!" we can imagine Madge thinking.)

I don't play her music. I hear it occasionally in an oldies setting and some of it sounds good and some of it does not hold up. And I honestly see people trying really hard to like her post Live Nation output and I feel like they're "working their asses off up there" to convince themselves that this pop music is good.

[songanddanceman2]

Posted: 3/20/12 at 10:54pm

Namo i think the thing that is interesting is that you can say all you want that us fans are trying to convince ourselves that the new album is good because we mention the fact its had great reviews, but the fact of the matter is......the album has had great reviews. The critics are not invested in her career, they are just reviewing the album, as they did with American Life what they did not like or Hard Candy that they found empty. So the critics have praised it and the fans have praised it, but apparently according to you she is someone who is no longer trying.

I love having banter with you about Madonna (i think people think we hate each other and dont realise that we have chatted privately and get along fine lol)but it becomes harder to find a point in what you say when at the moment in time you seem to be one of very few saying it, yet you seem to think if you repeat the same thing (comparing her to Bowie now, an artist who cant chart, a legacy artist etc) that it makes it true, your unusual negative fascination with her stops you from taking a breath and basing an opinion on the now.

It's also scrapping the bottom of the barrel when you have to mention her arms or hands, i mean really? that's something you expect from a teenager who thinks anyone older than the cast of 90210 is 'gross' or a ****ty tabloid trying to fill column space. Yes she is 53, yes she is getting older, yes she is an older woman in a youth saturated market, big deal. She looks fantastic (and before people scream photo shop she looked great on the Superbowl performance), but the remarks regarding the fact she is getting older are just kinda boring and juvenile.

Do i think you will enjoy MDNA? Probably not, it's very heavy dance/techno and retro 80s beats and i kinda get that feeling thats not your thing. I think the only way you would appreciate her was if she did something more Ray of Light. Well she did Ray of Light already, it's great, but she did it. The simple truth here is that you dont like her, you never will. So us fans can scream at the top of our lungs that this album is an album that we can be very excited about because its a return to form, the critics can call it her best album since Ray of Light, but it will never make any difference to you. Your mind is made up, opinion is out there, nothing will change it.

However

Just because YOUR opinion of her is so negative it does not reflect what all the public are thinking, no matter how many times you say it. Now i will mention as a fan that the critics are loving the album, thats not to 'convince myself to love the album', that's because i agree with them, it's a damn good album, screwed up, insane, darker than normal dance music but damn good.

If i had not liked the album i would have said. I hated Bedtime Stories, half of American Life put me to sleep, i think This Used to be my Playground is one of the worst songs ever and her version of American Pie made me want to bleed from the eyes. I am a fan of her as an artist, that does not mean i am a misguided fan of everything she does. Like my favourite actors, writers etc she has to prove herself, and on this album she has.

[songanddanceman2]

Posted: 3/20/12 at 11:02pm

And why can she not be p****d off at MIA for flipping the finger?

Yes she does it during HER OWN SHOWS. The Superbowl is a family show and she put on a performance the family could enjoy. It was a bad move by MIA since Madonna and her team had clearly worked very hard on the performance. She can go on stage at her own show and take a s**t if she want's, because it's her show, but the Superbowl is a whole different story.

As for the confessions tour, well again, it's different strokes for different folks, i happen to adore that tour but if you did not thats fine, but wow, the hatred to stem from watching the tour, over reaction much lol

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 3/20/12 at 11:04pm

Obviously, "having done" something before is clearly no longer something Madonna stays away from, is it?

And the only reason I bring up the hands and arms is BECAUSE of people like you who want it both ways: "She looks fantastic....!" My remarks are not about her aging, my remarks are about her obsession with exercise and avoidance of body fat to such a pathological degree that her hands and arms look scary. NOT because of how old she is, but because of her body dysmorphia. If she didn't realize this is true, she wouldn't be making such efforts to cover them up in so many different ways in the video. Go back and look again. It's like Barbra only showing one side of her face, even if it means she has to walk backwards on stage. It's "30 Rock" running a camera from down on the floor so as not to show Tina's facial scar.

Imagine if Madonna had kept her curves, and I don't mean the ones she has had implanted. THAT would have been an empowering statement for women. But you want to be able to praise her for saying she looks fantastic but then call me on it when I point out her arms and hands don't look human so she camouflages them. Perhaps we're both right?

[songanddanceman2]

Posted: 3/20/12 at 11:11pm

You do realise that if you look at her hands back in 1987 on the Who's That Girl Tour they also looked wrinkled right? She has never had attractive hands. As for her arms, yes she went through a scary arm phase by working out way too much but they look fine now and have done for a few years, they are toned, they always will be, but again, big deal. And yes, she does look great.

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 3/20/12 at 11:20pm

When I was a kid (born in '78 and became a Madonna fan in 1986 with TRUE BLUE) I became obsessed with the woman. I was the kid that by age 10 had his walls completely covered with Madonna to the point you couldn't see the white paint anymore. Over the years my infatuation has obviously died down, but she's still an important part of my life and my past. I've seen her perform quite a few times and have enjoyed each and every concert for exactly what it was. I don't go into them expecting anything but a fun 2 hours and to see arguably one of the most famous human beings on the planet live and in person for a little while. I've paid a hell of a lot less with other artists in much smaller spaces and gotten MUCH more out of the experience but that's not who she is. I think I've accepted her bitchery, her weirdness, her lip-synching and everything else that comes along with not liking Madonna but liking and accepting the REAL Madonna. She's not the 30 year old pop star singing True Blue or the girl having fun playing Nikki Finn anymore. Those days are long gone. And while her music is different and she may or may not be trying to hold onto something she lost a long time ago, the fact is that she's still out there working and making music. I don't think I agree with the argument that she just doesn't care anymore, though. If she didn't care I don't think a perfectionist like her would do it. Maybe it's not perfect to you or to me, but I do believe that she puts a hell of a lot of blood sweat and tears into her work and for what she wants at this or that specific point in time, it's perfect to her.

The first two songs from MDNA have far from blown me away those 2 singles remind me of "Ray of Light" (The song, not the album) as songs that I always skip when they come on but I'm very excited to hear the rest of the album. I've avoided listening to any of the small clips because I don't like to listen to little snippets but a new Madonna album has always and probably will always be something that I'll look forward to with excitement.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 3/20/12 at 11:36pm

I'm sure she'd appreciate your post so much she'd give you the finger if she were here, Jordan!

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 3/20/12 at 11:40pm

I'd give it right back to her. I'm still a fan but not enough to let her give me the finger and take it as a compliment.

But I'm sure it's no different than the millions of screaming queens who would give anything to have Lady GaGa take a dump on their faces and smash their teeth out while she demands they tell her how much they love her.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 3/20/12 at 11:58pm

Which Madonna would call reductive.

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 3/21/12 at 12:05am

As long as she doesn't call it Proactiv.

[CarlosAlberto]

Posted: 3/21/12 at 6:50am

And yes i have streamed the new album but purchased my copy on Pre Order so dont feel too bad lol.

Mmm hmm yeah, sure right. LOL. NOT.

[songanddanceman2]

Posted: 3/21/12 at 11:24am

Oh Carlos, if you are trying to make out i have not purchased the album you clearly dont know anything about me. I am a huge fan of Madonna so pre ordered the album when it was first available for pre order weeks ago. And i will be buying the physical CD next week when it comes out.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 3/21/12 at 11:28am

Don't you feel a little like when you ruined Christmas morning because you'd already sneakily opened the presents and carefully rewrapped them in advance?

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 3/21/12 at 12:12pm

It was interesting to hear the reasons behind your turnaround, FindingNamo - especially as that was around the time that I was just getting into her and discovering her back catalogue.
One fan dies, but another is born. I was influenced by older siblings and other relatives though - she seems to have passed by a lot of my peers...their loss.

Updated On: 3/21/12 at 12:12 PM

Posted: 3/21/12 at 12:19pm

How about the new video for GGW?

i think she is making 50's the new 30's. She is a cougar in control. I think it's a great video...love to watch her dance in a choreographed way. love the erotica Dita hair.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 3/21/12 at 2:13pm

Jay, I shall forever think of you now as the phoenix rising from my ashes.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 3/21/12 at 5:43pm

If she ever bothers to release another album of new material, we will see how quickly MDNA gets lumped in with Hard Candy and the other fan unfavorites and how that new cd will be the "return to form/back to the dancefloor/just plain good old fashioned FUN!"

Oh, Namo. That was Music. Confessions and Hard Candy were the revivals of her return to form/back to the dancefloor/just plain good old fashioned FUN. We got to experience that three times since the revolutionary Ray of Light.

My interest in Madonna waned when I made the mistake of seeing Truth or Dare in the theatre. I knew she had that diva bitchy edge, but at the time, it was never so blatant for so long as in that film. I knew girls like that. I can enjoy a lot of her music, but I will never understand how anyone can gush and worship such a detestable person. And all the idolatry and applause over the hydrangea incident (and subsequent pointless video) floored me.

[songanddanceman2]

Posted: 3/21/12 at 9:37pm

lol oh come on, first of all i think its fair to say that most of In Bed With Madonna/Truth or Dare was staged for shock purposes and to be dramatic, even as a huge fan i watch that film and see that. Also yes she has a cold side but she also has a very funny, loving side. I think you are been a bit harsh. Most celebs have their diva moments, she just does not hide it.

And as for the fun album, turns out it aint, this is quite a dark album as you will see if you listen to it before passing judgement. This probably her most open album since Ray of Light. Yes it's dance music for the most part but the lyrics are very revealing, personally thats what i adore on this album, the mix of euphoric music with very revealing lyrics.

Updated On: 3/21/12 at 09:37 PM