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COMMUNTIY REMINDER: There have been articles written about the sexual misconduct of Ben Vereen and William Ivey Long

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LarryD2 said: "Ben Vereen admitted to inappropriate behavior and misconduct. His statement is in the BWW article linked in the first post. Isn't this a settled matter?"

Settled?  Apparently not here.  Gotta go sharpen my pitchfork and set a torch afire.

Be yourself; everyone else is already taken ..... Oscar Wilde
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I do wonder sometimes what the endgoal of the outrage directed towards some individuals is - especially considering as Matt Damon correctly pointed out of course there is a spectrum of behaviour and some require extreme consequences (e.g. life in prison), while others not so much. Do the people that are 'outraged' essentially want Ben Vereen to never work again? Go into a corner and die? Can a mild offender ever be rehabilitated? 

"It’s the fractured quality in [Bernadette Peters'] singing voice and line readings that puts across the character as someone for whom resentment is sliding into madness." - NYtimes on Follies (2011).
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Moderator said: "Just to clear up one of the thingsin this thread, our intention was never to send a PM/email for every post that was deleted. If that was the impression that people got by something that was said, we apologize, that was not the what we intended to communicate.

Instead,the intent of explaining decisions was specifically forwhen the post fell intoa grey area, or it wasnot obvious for the poster as to why something was deleted. If someone makesa post in good faith, and it was clear that they didn't realize that they were violating rules, we do send PMs to people regularly.

However, for veteran posters who have the same types of posts deleted multiple times, and/or it is addressed in the threads themselves, the only times that we will send out PMswould be to officially issuewarnings when someone is approachinga suspension.

We try to do that as little as possible, and reserve those steps for just the most flagrant of rule violators. If you ever have questions about aspecific post or thread, you are welcome to PM or email (moderator[at]broadwayworld[dot]com).

Moderator Team
"

Then why does your team not respond when a member specifically asks why their post was deleted?  If one is taking the time to ask, obviously they don't know.  Yes, I know I am welcome to PM or email,  it's the follow through on an answer from your team, that's the problem.

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qolbinau said: "I do wonder sometimes what the endgoal of the outrage directed towards some individuals is - especially considering as Matt Damon correctly pointed out of course there is a spectrum of behaviour and some require extreme consequences (e.g. life in prison), while others not so much. Do the people that are 'outraged' essentially want Ben Vereen to never work again? Go into a corner and die? Can a mild offender ever be rehabilitated?"

I think for me, seeing a pattern of good behavior before they are welcomed back into the community and should begin working again is essential. However, I’m not quite sure what kind of behavior I’d like to actually see lol. It’s a complicated matter for sure. 

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*Subscribes to this thread* indecision At least I'll know what was posted if/when it gets deleted.

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Moderator said: "Just to clear up one of the thingsin this thread, our intention was never to send a PM/email for every post that was deleted. If that was the impression that people got by something that was said, we apologize, that was not the what we intended to communicate.

Instead,the intent of explaining decisions was specifically forwhen the post fell intoa grey area, or it wasnot obvious for the poster as to why something was deleted. If someone makesa post in good faith, and it was clear that they didn't realize that they were violating rules, we do send PMs to people regularly.

However, for veteran posters who have the same types of posts deleted multiple times, and/or it is addressed in the threads themselves, the only times that we will send out PMswould be to officially issuewarnings when someone is approachinga suspension.
  
We try to do that as little as possible, and reserve those steps for just the most flagrant of rule violators. If you ever have questions about aspecific post or thread, you are welcome to PM or email (moderator[at]broadwayworld[dot]com).

Moderator Team
"

Except don’t email the moderator. Message Rob.  The owner.  There should be a link to his pm on here somewhere.  I tried saying this before.... but it was deleted.  

HUSSY POWER! ------ HUSSY POWER!
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I have been a member of this site pretty much as long as it has existed. The board has changed a lot. Part of this is that there are simply waaaaaaaay more people on it. It doesn't feel like a "community" anymore. This has, I believe, been one of the changes that has led to an increase in mean-spirited posts. Gossiping has always been a major aspect of the board - frankly, one of the main reasons I still come here, to hear the tea - but I don't remember entire threads being devoted to a "epic takedown" of an individual being a thing - at least not very often.

I myself can be an a**hole on this board. I am fully willing to admit this.

However, I think the moderators can chill out just a little bit, and not police the board quite so much. I understand that they need to cover their butts legally. I understand that they do not want to alienate the Broadway community itself. But come on. Openly discussing printed news articles should be fine unless people are just making stuff up. The whole point of the board is to discuss opinions - not just on "Who's your dream cast of the Wicked movie???" - but also topics that are controversial. The controversial topics are usually the most important.

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Why does William keep getting hired? Surely there are other designers... especially young ones who could do the same that he does for much cheaper? It’s not like he’s getting more creative or inventive. Save for Cinderella, he hasn’t designed many interesting costumes as of late.
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Highland Guy said: "LarryD2 said: "Ben Vereen admitted to inappropriate behavior and misconduct. His statement is in the BWW article linked in the first post. Isn't this a settled matter?"

Settled? Apparently not here. Gotta go sharpen my pitchfork and set a torch afire.
"

by settled, I assume he meant that it’s not rumor, which was a point of contention on the prior thread. Vereen owned up to his actions, so they are not in question. 

 

"You travel alone because other people are only there to remind you how much that hook hurts that we all bit down on. Wait for that one day we can bite free and get back out there in space where we belong, sail back over water, over skies, into space, the hook finally out of our mouths and we wander back out there in space spawning to other planets never to return hurrah to earth and we'll look back and can't even see these lives here anymore. Only the taste of blood to remind us we ever existed. The earth is small. We're gone. We're dead. We're safe." -John Guare, Landscape of the Body
Updated On: 9/4/19 at 08:26 PM
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Call_me_jorge said: "Why does William keep getting hired? Surely there are other designers... especially young ones who could do the same that he does for much cheaper? It’s not like he’s getting more creative or inventive. Save for Cinderella, he hasn’t designed many interesting costumes as of late."

Actually one of the things I noticed about Tootsie were how cheap and unappealing the costumes looked. 

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LarryD2 said: "Ben Vereen admitted to inappropriate behavior and misconduct. His statement is in the BWW article linked in the first post. Isn't this a settled matter?"

Not here, not ever.  Everyone must have their endless outrage.  Mr. Vereen apologized.  What else do you want?  And someone brings up Mr. Barbour?  Again?  He paid the price for his actions and STILL people cannot stop.  Do you people ever actually listen to yourselves?  I don't know enough about Mr. Long to know what he's been accused of, how he's responded, or the outcome.  Has he been charged with a crime?  Has he, like Mr. Vereen, admitted to bad behavior and apologized?  Has he denied the allegations?  I'll go read the linked article now - but as to the other two gentlemen - enough already.

bk
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Well, as it turns out, I did read the Long article when it was first posted in a thread right here (what else is new).  This is ONE person who's alleged that Mr. Long harassed him.  Mr. Long denies it.  Not a single other person has come forward.  Not a single other person.  And read the comments on that article from fellow co-workers of Mr. Martin, who say clearly he's doing this for publicity and for a book deal, that HE harassed other young men there - well who DO we believe?  So, why would this be brought up again, since nothing has happened or changed in the past year?  No other people have come forward.  

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bk said: "LarryD2 said: "Ben Vereen admitted to inappropriate behavior and misconduct. His statement is in the BWW article linked in the first post. Isn't this a settled matter?"

Not here, not ever. Everyone must have their endless outrage. Mr. Vereen apologized. What else do you want? And someone brings up Mr. Barbour? Again? He paid the price for his actions and STILL people cannot stop. Do you people ever actually listen to yourselves? I don't know enough about Mr. Long to know what he's been accused of, how he's responded, or the outcome. Has he been charged with a crime? Has he, like Mr. Vereen, admitted to bad behavior and apologized? Has he denied the allegations? I'll go read the linked article now - but as to the other two gentlemen - enough already.
"

Well in the deleted thread the conversation was about Ben doing Hadestown .  The discussion moved on to ..if after something like that people are hirable  ( his incident) .   So Barbour came up as someone who went on to do Phantom and got work after.  Even though the things he pleaded guilty too are pretty horrible.   Also.. I take issue with people telling other people what they should or shouldn't discuss.  I didn't even know about the Ben Vereen situation .  So I am glad someone brought it up again.  I am sure the victims in these things will never forget and I see no reason why we shouldn't bring it up again if we want to.  And I will. 

HUSSY POWER! ------ HUSSY POWER!
Updated On: 9/5/19 at 01:59 PM
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Yeah, I read someone on another forum who works in opera who said right before the story broke she'd been discussing him with co-workers, and they wondered why something like this hadn't hit the press already. Sadly, he's apparently been doing this for a long time.

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bk said: "LarryD2 said: "Ben Vereen admitted to inappropriate behavior and misconduct. His statement is in the BWW article linked in the first post. Isn't this a settled matter?"

Not here, not ever. Everyone must have their endless outrage. Mr. Vereen apologized. What else do you want? And someone brings up Mr. Barbour? Again? He paid the price for his actions and STILL people cannot stop. Do you people ever actually listen to yourselves? I don't know enough about Mr. Long to know what he's been accused of, how he's responded, or the outcome. Has he been charged with a crime? Has he, like Mr. Vereen, admitted to bad behavior and apologized? Has he denied the allegations? I'll go read the linked article now - but as to the other two gentlemen - enough already.
"

You misunderstood me. When I said the matter was settled, I meant that there was no ambiguity as to the veracity of the story. Mr. Vereen admitted to the actions of which he was accused. I could understand BWW indemnifying itself if this was hearsay, but it's not. So I don't understand why the original thread was deleted, when the truth of the matter is in black and white in BWW's own reporting.

As for Mr. Vereen: He has the right to seek work. Employers have the right to hire him or not, and audience members have the right to support him or not with their dollars. That's the beginning and end of it.


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