Does anyone else think Book of Mormon is overrated?- Page 2

[kyle4]

Posted: 6/10/11 at 8:03pm

it is an OK show...

it is CERTAINLY OVERRATED !!!

i said so on my blog after the FIRST preview...

http://thetheaterbuff.typepad.com/the-theater-buff/2011/02/what-would-cheyenne-jackson-do.html

[tazber]

Posted: 6/10/11 at 10:02pm

My biggest problem, though, was with the ending. Without spoiling anything, I felt that they tried to go for the cookie-cutter easy-way-out ending, which I guess was designed to make us feel comfortable about all their jokes about Uganda. It ended up making me more uncomfortable, which I'm sure wasn't their intention.

That is the Parker/Stone template. Lampoon some hot button issue's over-reaction, or satarize the hypocrissy of a dogmatic way thinking. Then, end with a big speech putting everything in perspective and advocating tolerance and/or moderation.

I can't think of a single episode of South Park that doesn't follow that structure. "Bigger, Longer, Uncut" included.

[Brywal88]

Posted: 6/10/11 at 10:16pm

What exactly is the standard you are holding this show to? Can we name a funnier, smarter, more boundary pushing, discussion starting, contemporary musical comedy that is better than this? I can't think of a show that is as brilliantly staged or just as much fun in general, at least not in recent memory. There are always naysayers once something becomes 'acclaimed' because you set the bar so high for a work and then it disappoints. The same thing happens in film and music. But I'm just curious what standard this show didn't live up to? Really though not being a dick just curious to know what equates to greatness in some of your opinions? As far as musical comedies go? I was beginning to think it was a dying art...

[fflagg]

Posted: 6/10/11 at 10:17pm

I thought it was cute, no more no less. The show started at one note and ended on the same one. It will win 97 Tonys and so what.

[Kad]

Posted: 6/10/11 at 10:47pm

I'm wondering what one can find so "blatantly offensive" about the show. I found, overall, the content to be far less offensive than any of Trey Parker and Matt Stone's previous works. In the context of the show, I don't see how "Joseph Smith American Moses" is offensive at all. Nor "Hasa Diga Eebowai". So it says "**** you, God". Hardly an earth-shattering or new pronouncement. I'd say Nietzsche was more shocking.

"The album shows mormons as stupid people. One of the lines is did you jesus was born in the USA ? sure its funny ! but I do wonder seriously who would believe that to begin with."

The *SHOW* portrays Mormons as naive but extremely well-meaning. And yes, the LDS believe that Christ came to preach in North America (though not that he was born here). That is a fact. For the most part, the show is completely factual in its depiction of the aspects of Mormon faith.

[bwayfan7000]

Posted: 6/11/11 at 2:39am

I am one of the few people who have seen it amongst my friends and acquaintances, so when people find out I've seen it, often the first question I'm asked is how offensive it is. My answer is always this: if you're offended by the repeated use of words like f*ck or c*nt, especially in a context like "f*ck you, God" (which, frankly, some people just are), then you will be offended by the show. There is a LOT of bad language in this, undeniably. However, there is no sex scene in this show (like there is in American Idiot, Avenue Q or Spring Awakening). There are passing sexual references, but nothing as graphic as in the previous shows listed. And, to add to that, the show itself is very fun and, without all the language, would be almost family-friendly. So I personally don't think it's offensive at all. Especially in the context of the show. If I went out on the street and shouted "F*ck you, God!", people might be offended. But in the sphere of the show, the joke is contextualized, I think.

And, in regards to the regional theatres, if they have the appropriate diversity (which many theatres are demonstrating that they do with productions of Hairspray and Ragtime, etc, happening fairly frequently enough), then I bet several would jump on it immediately when the rights come out. This show is a smash hit and would sell exceedingly well.

[jewishboy]

Posted: 6/11/11 at 3:17am

I thought it was pretty effing good. I think a lot of the credit should go to Casey Nicholaw over the writers, which is interesting because with Avenue Q I thought the score and writing were genius (Book of Mormon isn't quite there). However, the last 45 minutes of the show (probably from the "Baptize Me" number on) was some of the best and most entertaining time I've ever spent at a Broadway show!

[PianoMann]

Posted: 6/11/11 at 3:43am

Granted, I haven't seen the show yet so I cannot totally judge, but I've listened to the score a few times and really dislike it! The humor doesn't register for me in the slightest, and even the songs that have some good aspects are sung in such a facetious way that I'm immediately irritated... please don't be angry at me!

[muscle23ftl]

Posted: 6/11/11 at 3:59am

Very overrated

[PalJoey]

Posted: 6/11/11 at 9:21am

The word "overrated" is overrated.

It's always easy to to take the Hot New Thing that everyone likes and assume a contrary position: "Wow," you think, "I'm so much SMARTER than everybody else! They're just sheep, followers, unable to think for themselves, while I am different, a maverick."

But, in the end really, contrarianism is just knee-jerk contradiction: If the masses love Wicked, all you have do is say, "You know, it really isn't very good, actually." Or if Glee becomes a runaway hit, you simply turn the conversation to the Auto-tuning or the jumps in logic. Or you use the word in question: If someone tells you they love something, you simply say, "It's overrated" and voila! You're smarter than they are!

But are you really? No. You're just being facile. There are, of course, always flaws that can be discussed, but neither "I love it" or "It's overrated" gets anywhere near the heart of the flaws or the positive attributes. (Plus, if you care, saying "It's overrated" to someone who loves something invariably brands you as an asshole.)

Much more interesting, especially in a case like this--a blockbuster hit that has appeal far outside the regular theater-going audience--are points like the ones Tazber brought up: If this musical fits into the successful template that Parker and Stone have used for their TV show and movies, how does it work in a musical? If the songs and musical numbers are written to be satirical, do they also work as songs and musical numbers? And if the characters are written satirically, do they just remain cartoons or do we end up caring about them anyway?

But beware of asking a contentless question like this thread title: "Does anyone else think X is overrated?" That's just Easy Cynicism looking for validation. Easy Cynicism is the opposite of Smart. Easy Cynicism makes you bitter--and old before your time.

And it's vastly overrated.

Updated On: 6/11/11 at 09:21 AM

[gvendo2005]

Posted: 6/11/11 at 9:26am

^ I am sincerely contemplating marrying this man.

[JamesHarvey2]

Posted: 6/11/11 at 11:40am

Updated On: 7/11/13 at 11:40 AM

[TomMonster]

Posted: 6/11/11 at 11:59am

I love you Pal Joey!*sigh*

[JamesHarvey2]

Posted: 6/11/11 at 12:17pm

Updated On: 7/11/13 at 12:17 PM

[SporkGoddess]

Posted: 6/11/11 at 12:30pm

The latest South Park episode doesn't follow that format, but it's a special case.

Anyway, the South Park episode about Mormons made fun of them far worse than The Book of Mormon does. There's a song that plays throughout their retelling of the tale of Joseph Smith, which keeps calling Joseph Smith and his believers "dumb."

I can't say if the show is overrated because I haven't seen it on stage yet. I will say that I adore the cast recording and have had it in my car's CD player for weeks now.

[leefowler]

Posted: 6/11/11 at 12:45pm

Pal Joey's post is one of the best written I've ever seen here.

But I don't agree that the use of "overrated" is quite as nefarious as he thinks. He's correct that everyone who uses the term is basically saying, "my opinion is more valid that others" But EVERYONE thinks thinks their opinion is more valid than others. Whenever people disagree, each person thinks their own opinion is the correct one, and the other person is full of it.

What Pal Joey is saying is that the word "overrated" is overrated. And now we're getting into Lewis Carroll territory.

Updated On: 6/11/11 at 12:45 PM

[strummergirl]

Posted: 6/11/11 at 1:03pm

"No, Pal Joey is wrong! Finding something overrated can be a perfectly valid opinion! Example: Regardless of Glee's popularity, I find it to be a terribly written show, and because it is held in such high esteem by so many people, I can reasonably call it overrated. I get that "overrated" is overused by people to make themselves feel above the mainstream, but that doesn't categorically invalidate the word."

And now, I go OT: Nobody has ever called Glee a well-written show at any point. Not even its fans watch it for the writing. They watch it for the performances and occasionally biting one-liners from certain characters. It's popular and ubiquitous. Overexposed, certainly. Overrated? Not when it feels half of its audience actively hates elements of the show very strongly. It is a guilty pleasure show that probably should not win Emmys beyond good acting from a few in the ensemble and production values.

Back to TBoM, I have only heard the recording but on the NPR stream but songs are still stuck in my head. Unlike Robert Lopez's other show Avenue Q (which I still love) it never feels like the show loses momentum into the second act. The great songs are spread out, imo.

Avenue Q did well in my area and I see no reason why TBoM would not do well here on a National Tour. People hearing it is by the South Park people will make it a hot ticket the way the tour of Sweeney Todd did well after the movie with Johnny Depp was out before the tour came there. Not necessarily people who are into musicals but people who like the associations pertaining to that specific musical.

[tazber]

Posted: 6/11/11 at 1:23pm

The latest South Park episode doesn't follow that format, but it's a special case.

Yes, very true Spork. And slightly OT, with only seven contracted episodes remaining, the mid-season finale (the last aired show) pretty much let us know that Parker and Stone will not be doing a 16th season.
Granted this is conjecture and I don't know what they have planned, but if it's more musicals (movie or live) I'll be a happy guy.
Link

[mikem]

Posted: 6/11/11 at 1:41pm

I basically agree with PalJoey and others about how some people seem to get validation from trashing things other people like. I have never understood that phenomenon.

I personally make a bit of a distinction between "overrated" and "overhyped," with "overrated" meaning that its critical reception is undeserved and "overhyped" meaning that the press/buzz is excessive given the material. Given the competition, BOM probably deserves to win Best Musical, and it certainly deserved strong reviews. But the hype is getting to be a bit much. The show is imperfect as is any show, and I don't know if any show could live up to the hype the show is getting. It seems to be getting more hype than any show since The Producers, which I also feel was not necessarily overrated but was definitely overhyped.

[ajh]

Posted: 6/11/11 at 3:01pm

I think that for some people the problem with The Book Of Mormon is the sheer weight of expectation.


After reading the ecstatic reviews, hearing about the Tony nominations and having to pay so money since obviously there are no discounts whatsoever I, like many other people, was majorly excited going into the O'Neill to watch it the other week. I certainly enjoyed what I saw: there were moments I literally couldn't stop laughing, I thought the cast are uniformly superb (since the general consensus is that it'll sweep the board tomorrow I honestly couldn't choose which of the two boys will get the Best Actor gong, although in my heart of hearts I think either Butz or Sheldon are more deserving winners) and most (not all) of the numbers are terrific.


But, for me, did it live up to all the hype? Nope....though I'm not sure anything could. With the exception of Nikki M. James I found that I really didn't care about the characters, some of the weaker jokes were repeated ad nauseam as though repetition was going to make them somehow funnier, and there is a puerile overreliance on bad language for impact. I didn't think it all that original either: while I appreciated and actually loved the way it skillfully referenced other musicals, the mixture of religiosity and profanity reminded me alot of Jerry Springer The Opera which I saw several times in London. I still think it's a corker of a show but not quite the second coming many are touting it as.


During the same visit I also saw, amongst other things, Catch Me If You Can which I approached with alot less enthusiasm thanks to the mixed reviews and lukewarm responses on message boards and....get your guns out...no not THOSE guns....I loved it. In fact I preferred it. This may well be because my expectations were lower but I thought the concept really worked, number after number tore the place apart, and what a cast.


I think it will be very interesting to see what happens when The Book Of Mormon travels outside the US. It is undoubtedly a big fat Broadway smash and South Park is popular the world over but I suspect that it will prove a far harder sell abroad than, say, The Producers or Avenue Q (just using them as instances as they are particularly acclaimed examples of American musical comedy.) And I'm not just talking about Uganda!!! I'm a Londoner, and your average Brit knows practically nothing about Mormonism, and this could render portions of the show baffling to a non-American audience.


I wonder if we might see a repeat of the situation that happened in London in the 70s with Chorus Line, in the 80s with 42nd St and more recently with Wicked where the West End was full of wealthy Americans who travelled across the Atlantic to see the current B'way hot ticket as they couldn't get tickets at home?! While I absolutely do not suggest that a show should be done solely with a view to International presentations, the moment something causes this big a splash either side of the Atlantic (or in Priscilla's case, in Australia) foreign producers immediately want a piece of the action and the word here is that plans for a London Mormon are already underway.


Either way, am sure the London producers will be able to write "Tony Award-winning Broadway Smash Hit" on all advertising materials....and, hyperbole or not, that won't be a word of a lie!!


half of the above is hardly relevant now. Maybe more than half...oh well Updated On: 6/13/11 at 03:01 PM

[brettystar]

Posted: 6/12/11 at 11:47pm

I think it is over rated. I enjoyed it mostly and do wonder if I would have enjoyed it more had I seen it without reading the rave reviews and hearing so many people give it such good word of mouth.
There were times when I could not wait for it to be over - just seemed to go on and on.
There were moments when I really enjoyed it, but for the most part I do not think it deserved so many nominations and wins.

[DirectorGP]

Posted: 6/12/11 at 11:59pm

YES YES YES... I was so excited to see it and was very disappointed... Not horrible but really did not live up to the hype. I thought the set was horrible and it played like an off B'way show. It is not horrible but sophomoric and overrated. I did love Nikki M. James and she deserved her Tony. Set Sound and orchestrations were not Tony worthy

[broadwaybound0632]

Posted: 6/13/11 at 12:03am

I love how we do this ever year. Whatever is the most popular show is all of a sudden overrated. I loved this show. Think it deserves all the praise it is getting.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 6/13/11 at 12:19am

ajh--does your keyboard by any chance have a broken ENTER key?

[ajh]

Posted: 6/13/11 at 6:22am

PalJoey....that made me giggle. There's nothing wrong with my ENTER key, but I HAD been off coffee for a fortnight...until about 15 minutes before I wrote the above post. So it IS a bit stream-of-consciousness I'm afraid.


Concision is so overrated.

See I did it!!!