Schwartz vs. Sondheim- Page 4

[MisterRussell]

Posted: 4/19/06 at 1:26pm

Again S78, we are in complete agreement. BAKERS WIFE is Schwartz' most mature and complex score, even if Act II is ENTIRELY made up of reprises.
Updated On: 4/19/06 at 01:26 PM

Posted: 4/19/06 at 1:34pm

I agree that they're two different beasts, but in defense of Schwartz, I offer up his non-musical theater work, such as the songs on Reluctant Pilgrim - Dreamscape, More Than This.

Probably in the minority here, but I count Children of Eden as his best work, especially in the use of recurring motifs, both lyrically and melodically. There's also something to be said for the simplicity of statements in songs like "The Hardest Part Of Love", and "World Without You".

[Danielm]

Posted: 4/19/06 at 1:43pm

Why, Judas, why would you start this? It could only ever end in tears. Why not just start a Schwartz love chain and leave it at that. You love Schwartz, his shows mean something to you--that's great! I love some of his shows too. But the personal feelings I have about a show often have nothing to do with the quality of the show itself. I love shows because I saw them at a particular time of my life or with a certain person or because I was in it and had a great time. Why would you have to compare him to anyone--but especially Sondheim. You know you can never win this battle so why even start it? Maybe you don't like Sondheim--that's your personal taste--but you're just asking for trouble if you cast aspersions on his artistry.

[sondheim78]

Posted: 4/19/06 at 1:44pm

There is some nice stuff in Children of Eden, but you have to look at it for what it is: a Christian propoganda filled regional theatre holiday musical with nice little pop tunes that don't force the blue hairs with subscription tickets in Montana to think too hard.

For my money The Baker's Wife is the only score that truly tells the amount of talent Stephen Schwartz has.


Updated On: 4/19/06 at 01:44 PM

[dented146]

Posted: 4/19/06 at 2:40pm

I turned on my computer to find that my favorite show, Wicked has bastardized musical theatre. The good news is that I might actually be a better artist than I thought because my sculpture doesn't appeal to anyone.

I am at least in the majority in that I also believe Sondheim is a board certified genius. However,acrocksyo, he did get a little help with WSS from LB and JR.

Maybe I'm just very easy to please but I think the music AND lyrics for Wicked are a perfect fit for that type of story. It's very cute and light in places,sure; but it works brilliantly. 1.4 M a week is not how you measure talent but it's not chopped liver. Schwartz is at least a huge talent.

[buffyactsing]

Posted: 4/19/06 at 2:53pm

"I prefer Sondheim to LaChiusa, but I *love* LaChiusa, and that would be a much more interesting discussion."

Ditto what Sondheim 78 said. Anyone wanna start a thread?:)

Posted: 4/19/06 at 2:59pm

I love them both, and any comparison is like apples vs. oranges.

[Necromancer07707]

Posted: 4/19/06 at 3:01pm

Well, I loved being in Godspell and Children of Eden, and to be honest I like Wicked (I sat front row, how couldn't I?).

I hated playing Sweeney Todd and Into the Woods was just terrible to be in.

But, frankly, Sondheim still blows Schwartz out of the water. Sonheim's composition is unconventional with classical means of production, whereas Schwartz is all-too-conventional. Sonheim's shows are mature and well developed whereas Shwartz's simply entertain. If you're a young teen, I don't blame you for liking Schwartz more, especially if you've been in shows by both. However, Schwartz will NEVER achieve the depth and maturity of Sondheim.

[Necromancer07707]

Posted: 4/19/06 at 3:04pm

"There is some nice stuff in Children of Eden, but you have to look at it for what it is: a Christian propoganda..."

Actually I would dare say that this show has more of a Jewish perception of "God" than Christian. But that's a completely different discussion...

[Necromancer07707]

Posted: 4/19/06 at 3:04pm

edit: repeated message

Updated On: 4/19/06 at 03:04 PM

[Jazzysuite82]

Posted: 4/19/06 at 3:06pm

What actor hates being in Sweeney Todd. I'm gathering it was the production not the piece. Sweeney is a real actor's role. THere's sooo much to bite into.


I agree with the Children of Eden comment...especially since Schwartz is sorta jewish right?

[Necromancer07707]

Posted: 4/19/06 at 3:09pm

I just hated being Sweeney because it was such a difficult role and something I feel I'm too young to have grasped. I would have loved to be in the company, or even Anthony for that matter.

[Jazzysuite82]

Posted: 4/19/06 at 3:12pm

ahh well I've been there

[ohhoney_]

Posted: 4/19/06 at 3:13pm

Wait wait wait.
Schwartz vs. Sondheim???
Is this a real question???

[ljay889]

Posted: 4/19/06 at 3:18pm

tually I would dare say that this show has more of a Jewish perception of "God" than Christian. But that's a completely different discussion...

- I agree with this. I think a Christian's perception of God is different from how he is portrayed in that show.

AS LONG AS YOUR MINE is basically the same song as FOR WHATEVER TIME WE HAVE. Schwartz just loves re-using his melodies!
Updated On: 4/19/06 at 03:18 PM

[dramatothemax]

Posted: 4/19/06 at 3:20pm

Personally I am terribly sick of Wicked. But it's obviously not Schwartz's fault. It's all them damn non theatre people who only know of Wicked and Rent. Sondheim, I just love all his stuff. Not to mention he's a cuter old man :-P

Posted: 4/19/06 at 3:30pm

Someone here said about West Side Story:

"it changed musical theater by incorporating dance, book, lyrics, and music to tell a complete story"

Hmmm...I thought Oklahoma! did that and On The Town

[sondheim78]

Posted: 4/19/06 at 3:33pm

You are all correct. I misspoke above. Children of Eden is a religious propoganda-filled etc. etc.

It is in fact more Jewish, dealing, as it does with the Old Testament.

But I stand by everything else I said. It surely isn't COMPANY.

[nobodyhome]

Posted: 4/19/06 at 3:39pm

Sondheim really doesn't publicly criticize other living composers and lyricists. He certainly has criticized some dead lyricists, notably Lorenz Hart and Ira Gershwin. I haven't read much of him criticizing dead composers, although he's admitted to not liking Kurt Weill much. And he's said that Irving Berlin was a great lyricist but he doesn't think his music was all that special.

But when it comes to the living, he's generally pretty quiet when it comes to criticism. The closest I can recall him coming to criticizing specific writers is when he said something to the effect that a lot of through-composed or nearly through-composed musicals weren't really operas because the level of musical development wasn't high enough.

And back in late 1975, when pressed by a writer from the New York Times to say that A Chorus Line was the greatest thing since sliced bread, he said that he didn't think much of the text, that the show was made by its staging. And then, in a rare instance of saying that he particularly liked a show that was currently running, he cited The Wiz, because it captured joy, an emotion that he has trouble writing believably. And he's praised Adam Guettel, of course. But he tries not to comment publicly on living writers.

What he says privately, of course, might be quite different.

Of course, there was that time when he referred to the dead Oscar Hammerstein, rather nicely, as "a man of limited talent but infinite soul," and then, when asked about the alive Richard Rogers, called him "a man of infinite talent but limited soul." Rodgers wasn't too happy about this.

Which may be why he no longer says much publicly about other living writers.
Updated On: 4/19/06 at 03:39 PM

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 4/19/06 at 3:40pm

"Again S78, we are in complete agreement. BAKERS WIFE is Schwartz' most mature and complex score, even if Act II is ENTIRELY made up of reprises."

Actually, Act II introduces seven songs not heard in the first act:

Any-Day-Now-Day
Endless Delights
The Luckiest Man in the World
Feminine Companionship
If I Have to Live Alone
Romance
Where Is the Warmth?

[acrocksyo]

Posted: 4/19/06 at 3:42pm

However,acrocksyo, he did get a little help with WSS from LB and JR.

Yeah hence why I wrote And to whomever said that WSS doesn't compare to Pippin, needs to go back and look at the vocal difficulty of WSS and the complex lyrics, it changed musical theater by incorporating dance, book, lyrics, and music to tell a complete story, and to say that Pippin had that kind of effect on musical theater is just asinine! comparing the show as a whole. Next time read all the words I write not the words you want to see. Yes Oklahoma did that, and I would say Show Boat before I would say On The Town. But West Side Story was complex and relevent to the era that it opened and I sugest that you pick up a copy of A Fine Romance: Hollywood/Broadway and read about West Side Story for youself.

And I think you said it all with these words my favorite show, Wicked

Updated On: 4/19/06 at 03:42 PM

[dented146]

Posted: 4/19/06 at 4:20pm

Actually, I should have said that ONE of my favorite shows is Wicked; I also loved,gasp, Jersey Boys.

[coolphantom919]

Posted: 6/12/06 at 11:37am

SONDHEIM! HE'S DONE MORE AND BETTER BROADWAY MUSICALS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :0

[RentBoy86]

Posted: 6/12/06 at 12:10pm

This thread is pointless. Did you actually expect people to vote for Schwartz over Sondheim? They're both okay. Neither of them are stellar, but I think Sondheim has the better ideas as far as stories go.

[Katecab99]

Posted: 6/12/06 at 12:36pm

Not that this really has anything to do with this thread...but when I was revisiting "Sweeney" on Wednesday, Stephen Schwartz was sitting right near me. It just made me think of what it must be like for someone like him to sit and watch a Sondheim show.