Casting without Considering Appearance

Dave19
Broadway Star
joined:12/23/11
Casting without Considering Appearance
Posted: 1/16/13 at 08:41am
"Self denying racists it seems are an international breed."

That is racist!




yawn........

And can you please tell me where it is written that black people are the only people in the world that cannot take food jokes? And no, slavery is not the same as food jokes.


That is racist to all the other races!
Updated On: 1/16/13 at 08:41 AM
newintown
Broadway Legend
joined:3/3/10
Casting without Considering Appearance
Posted: 1/16/13 at 09:19am
" Like newintown, you pretend like you're actually saying something of substance, but you aren't."

Honestly Phyl, you lose all your interesting qualities when you begin ranting on this topic. If you would cool down, you would notice that I haven't said a thing about race in this thread, nor have I even disagreed with anything you've written in it.

You hear the word "race" and you just start attacking everyone around you, like a bull who has seen a red flag.

Updated On: 1/16/13 at 09:19 AM
ghostlight2
Broadway Legend
joined:12/5/04
Casting without Considering Appearance
Posted: 1/16/13 at 09:31am
I'm sure Phyl is oh-so-upset that he's lost his "interesting qualities" where you are concerned.
newintown
Broadway Legend
joined:3/3/10
Casting without Considering Appearance
Posted: 1/16/13 at 09:34am
Glad to see you're still avidly following me, ghostie!
ghostlight2
Broadway Legend
joined:12/5/04
Casting without Considering Appearance
Posted: 1/16/13 at 09:39am
You wish.
suestorm
Broadway Legend
joined:1/15/13
Casting without Considering Appearance
Posted: 1/16/13 at 09:41am
NEWINTOWN is a troll and a bully, why are you guys bothering
FINDINGNAMO, SNAFU, THEATERDIVE, JORDANCATALONO, LIZASHEADBAND, PALJOEY: You all claim to "IGNORE ME" I wish you would and stop constantly commenting on my posts. Thanks ...................................................................................................................................... The MOST POPULAR and DANGEROUS Poster on BWW! Banned by the PTA, PTC and the MEANGIRLS of BWW..................................................................................................................... ...Ukraine Girls really knock me out, they leave the west behind..........................
newintown
Broadway Legend
joined:3/3/10
Casting without Considering Appearance
Posted: 1/16/13 at 09:42am
And I still adore your devastating wit!
ghostlight2
Broadway Legend
joined:12/5/04
Casting without Considering Appearance
Posted: 1/16/13 at 09:46am
Good. On your knees.
newintown
Broadway Legend
joined:3/3/10
Casting without Considering Appearance
Posted: 1/16/13 at 09:47am
Is your wit located down there?
ghostlight2
Broadway Legend
joined:12/5/04
Casting without Considering Appearance
Posted: 1/16/13 at 09:56am
How jejune.
newintown
Broadway Legend
joined:3/3/10
Casting without Considering Appearance
Posted: 1/16/13 at 10:04am
That's jejune? You have the temerity to say that I'm talking to you out of jejunosity? I am one of the most june people in all of the Russias.
Wynbish
Broadway Legend
joined:4/27/12
Casting without Considering Appearance
Posted: 1/16/13 at 10:14am

fiesta1
Stand-by
joined:11/20/03
Casting without Considering Appearance
Posted: 1/16/13 at 01:54pm
I live in DC, and have been a regular at Arena Stage performances since the early 90s. They have been forward-thinking with their non-traditional casting for a number of year (well before their recent revisit of Oklahoma). As an audience member, I welcome non-trad casting as it allows me to look more at the actor's intent and the playwright's words more than just the physical looks.

If a play is about race (Clybourne Park, for example) than casting by skin tone can be important. But I've seen great performances from one African-American actress as Eliza Doolitte in Pygmalion and as Grusha in Caucasian Chalk Circle at Arena in the early 90s. I've also seen the flip-side - a mixed race production of The Wiz with a ginger lion on another DC stage.

The Opera world seemed to embrace casting by talent decades ago (look a the success of Leontyne Price and Jessye Norman). Why can't it work just as well in theater too?
Mister Matt
Broadway Legend
joined:5/17/03
Casting without Considering Appearance
Posted: 1/16/13 at 02:08pm


(photo of the Swedish Minister for Culture Lena Adelsohn Liljeroth)

We in Europe already know that black people are equal.

And this is where you lose all credibility.

http://imdiversity.com/villages/global/racism-against-blacks-is-a-growing-trend-in-europe/

http://www.vice.com/read/guide-to-european-racist-leagues

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jan/04/racism-europe-football-editorial

http://www.japantoday.com/category/opinions/view/europes-racism-problem

http://www.forbes.com/sites/joelkotkin/2010/10/18/whos-racist-now-europes-increasing-intolerance/

http://www.thecrimson.com/column/talk-to-the-hand/article/2012/11/29/harvard-europe-racism/

http://www.todayszaman.com/news-275115-racism-in-europe-reaches-alarming-proportions-says-davutoglu.html

I always love it when Europeans tell Americans what Americans ALWAYS do or are ALWAYS like without having grown up here or even lived here. Especially the ones who speak about racism from countries that are nowhere near as racially diverse as the US per capita.

"What can you expect from a bunch of seitan worshippers?" - Reginald Tresilian
Updated On: 1/16/13 at 02:08 PM
PottstownTeacher
Stand-by
joined:11/21/05
Casting without Considering Appearance
Posted: 1/16/13 at 02:33pm
Not that this is the same league, but I just played the role of "John" in MISS SAIGON at a local community theatre. I'm a white guy. I only had to change one line ... "Hey listen, white boy, you losing your cool?" became "Hey listen buddy, you losing your cool?" The audience didn't seem to mind.
suestorm
Broadway Legend
joined:1/15/13
Casting without Considering Appearance
Posted: 1/16/13 at 02:36pm
I played Dorothy in my HS production of the Wizard of Oz, even though im blonde! seriously, some of the parents werent very happy, though none of my classmates seemed to mind
FINDINGNAMO, SNAFU, THEATERDIVE, JORDANCATALONO, LIZASHEADBAND, PALJOEY: You all claim to "IGNORE ME" I wish you would and stop constantly commenting on my posts. Thanks ...................................................................................................................................... The MOST POPULAR and DANGEROUS Poster on BWW! Banned by the PTA, PTC and the MEANGIRLS of BWW..................................................................................................................... ...Ukraine Girls really knock me out, they leave the west behind..........................
Phyllis Rogers Stone
Broadway Legend
joined:9/16/07
Casting without Considering Appearance
Posted: 1/16/13 at 02:43pm
No, newintwon, you haven't said anything in this thread, but Dave19 took on the role you took in the last one (like continually ignoring what I was actually saying and bringing in tangents that have absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand). But keep telling me I'm losing my cool all you want, because I know that's really all you have, even if it's demonstrably untrue. Also, I don't care what you think about me at all, be it positive or negative.
Mister Matt
Broadway Legend
joined:5/17/03
Casting without Considering Appearance
Posted: 1/16/13 at 02:46pm
The actor who first played John in Miss Saigon was white before a black actor was cast in the role in the US.
"What can you expect from a bunch of seitan worshippers?" - Reginald Tresilian
newintown
Broadway Legend
joined:3/3/10
Casting without Considering Appearance
Posted: 1/16/13 at 04:11pm
newintwon?
Phyllis Rogers Stone
Broadway Legend
joined:9/16/07
Casting without Considering Appearance
Posted: 1/16/13 at 04:19pm
LOL, I made a typo! At least I gave you a freebie to stray from the subject at hand!
newintown
Broadway Legend
joined:3/3/10
Casting without Considering Appearance
Posted: 1/16/13 at 04:20pm
For which I thank you.
DEClarke
Broadway Legend
joined:11/22/06
Casting without Considering Appearance
Posted: 1/16/13 at 06:04pm
I think it depends on the show...

I saw an African-American Scrooge once. It was good because the actor was fantastic! The boy playing young Scrooge was white, but that didn't even matter because the adult Scrooge was FANTASTIC!!! It didn't detract from the show at all.

I saw a really fat Mimi in RENT once. That didn't work for me. She was not dying of AIDS. She was dying of diabetes.
GavestonPS
Broadway Legend
joined:6/10/12
Casting without Considering Appearance
Posted: 1/16/13 at 07:38pm
But here people from all countries play Jews and Nazi's in shows and films, and are proud of it, because we all feel the stories need to be told.

That is a different way of handling things than being so uptight about it.

Also, Jews don't feel like they have to prove anything nowadays, because they are equal.


But Dave, Jews don't look different from the rest of the population, unless they are among the few who follow strict Hassidic codes of dress and hygiene. Moreover, Jews were not forcibly banned from stage and screen for anything approaching the period that blacks were banned in the U.S. That's not to say there aren't issues of representation of Jews in Europe, but casting isn't necessarily the big issue on your side of the Atlantic.

It is Europe where Holocaust denial has been criminalized. Most of us Americans don't like it, but we haven't felt the need to abridge freedom of speech and the press in order to protect people from stupid notions.

So let's be a little careful about our generalizations as to which cultures take racism "too seriously".

***

That being said, it's not that you don't have a point that Americans are sometimes overly sensitive. It's just that you refuse to recognize that we have 500 years of reasons for that sensitivity. But I should tell you that our media LOVE battles over political correctness; in everyday life, such conflicts are ignored or resolved amicably far more often than one might think from our news reports. And in fact, most minority members of all stripes are generally quite gracious about unintended slights.

The casting issue is a sorer point because people's livelihoods are at stake. The "chicken wings" remark offends me, but it doesn't really matter compared to minority actors having to fight for an arbitrarily shrunken pool of roles.

***

As for Jews in Europe, are you sure you are qualified to speak for them? I know countless Jewish artists who have worked and/or toured your continent only to be shocked at the open anti-Semitism they encountered most places in Central Europe and EVERYWHERE in Eastern Europe.
GavestonPS
Broadway Legend
joined:6/10/12
Casting without Considering Appearance
Posted: 1/16/13 at 07:43pm
I played Dorothy in my HS production of the Wizard of Oz, even though im blonde! seriously, some of the parents werent very happy, though none of my classmates seemed to mind

Such ignorance on the part of those parents! Dorothy IS blonde in the original novel and MGM tried to put Judy Garland in a blonde wig, but couldn't get it to look natural.

Tell those dissenting parents I said, "So there!"
suestorm
Broadway Legend
joined:1/15/13
Casting without Considering Appearance
Posted: 1/17/13 at 09:34am
Thanks GavestonPS! Im embarrassed to admit i didnt know that!
FINDINGNAMO, SNAFU, THEATERDIVE, JORDANCATALONO, LIZASHEADBAND, PALJOEY: You all claim to "IGNORE ME" I wish you would and stop constantly commenting on my posts. Thanks ...................................................................................................................................... The MOST POPULAR and DANGEROUS Poster on BWW! Banned by the PTA, PTC and the MEANGIRLS of BWW..................................................................................................................... ...Ukraine Girls really knock me out, they leave the west behind..........................
Reginald Tresilian
Broadway Legend
joined:6/12/08
Casting without Considering Appearance
Posted: 1/17/13 at 09:39am
That's true about the blond wig on Garland, but actually in the book Dorothy's hair color is never mentioned. And the original W. W. Denslow illustrations show her with sort of auburn hair.

But the illustrator who did the rest of the series (and wrote two of his own) always depicted her as blond.

Either way, there's no reason her hair can't be any color at all.

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