Ragtime- Page 2

[EvelynNesbit1906]

Posted: 12/25/05 at 8:37pm

I do wish the show was still on Broadway. In 1999, CBS was readying for a miniseries based on the novel; the respectable success of the musical was encouraging for them. Then that too fell apart.

[EvelynNesbit1906]

Posted: 12/25/05 at 8:39pm

What a Game obviously isn't a power ballad but you don't think its style is at all similar to Crime of the Century, Gettin' Ready Rag, Henry Ford, Night That Goldman Spoke at Union Square and Atlantic City?

[best12bars]

Posted: 12/25/05 at 8:45pm

What a Game is a moment of reprieve and humor... It's an oasis in a second act that is overfull of "messages and meaning." The balance is needed, and it's essential to see that Father is trying his best to connect with his son... even though he is failing at it.

[YOU_aremyLucky_STAR]

Posted: 12/25/05 at 8:54pm

Ragtime is genious. The music is so powerful, and the plot rivals it. I've always loved this musical, ever since I saw my friend in it, on the tour. It was honestly brilliant. I actually was fortunate enough to do it with a community theatre group two years ago. It calls for a huge cast, huge set, and huge props- the car. But it really can work nicely with any theatre group- given you have the space, and talent.

[EvelynNesbit1906]

Posted: 12/25/05 at 8:59pm

"The balance is needed, and it's essential to see that Father is trying his best to connect with his son... even though he is failing at it."

Yes, and the number also shows how the "modernity" that Father seems to think is simply corrupting his household is typical of other institutions he previously thought sacred.

(edited for spelling)
Updated On: 12/25/05 at 08:59 PM

[Link Larkin Wanabe]

Posted: 12/25/05 at 9:10pm

EvelynNesbit,

Just a quick question you might know...How old is Mother's Younger Brother supposed to be? Is it ever specified in the book? I would LOVE to play that role someday, and kind of want to know what my time limit is. I would love to see him played pretty young.

Akiva

[best12bars]

Posted: 12/25/05 at 9:21pm

I would put him in his early to mid 20s. I don't know that they ever say exactly.

[lilprima2b]

Posted: 12/25/05 at 9:21pm

I love Ragtime. It's the only Ahrens/Flaherty musical I can listen to without wanting to jump out a window, too. I got to see the student national cast last summer (they did it at my school before it went to festival) and it was absolutely amazing. It's so beautiful... the book is wonderful too, and I think the spirit of the book is really evident in the show with the use of the third person, etc. It works.

[EvelynNesbit1906]

Posted: 12/25/05 at 9:27pm

Grandfather is in his nineties and "sired" Younger Brother at a ripe old age. Figure that. Twenties seems to be ballpark. His love interest (Evelyn) is 16 at points in the story and 30 at others, though you would need to know her life story to realize that.

[Link Larkin Wanabe]

Posted: 12/25/05 at 9:31pm

Yay. I have quite a few years left in me to play this role. I would love to see Mother's Younger Brother played quite young. I think it would add an interestin dynamic between his generation and Father's.

Akiva

[Kass983]

Posted: 12/25/05 at 9:31pm

Evelyn, best12bars, you've both made some valid points and I do agree with you basically. You're right about it needing to be more completely established that Father is losing touch with his family and this is one way he's trying to fill in the cracks. And yes, Evelyn, it actually is in the same vein as Henry Ford and the others you mentioned, now that you've had me think about that.

I guess where I'm coming from is that the other songs, Henry Ford etc., from the CD alone, don't seem as jarringly out of the blue as What a Game does. The other songs seem to establish more tangible things, such as the era of the automobile and the fact that a black man can purchase one too; or the turn of the century diva and her rise and fall; or a young man discovering his concience. From the CD alone, it's harder to see the importance of the song in the way you describe, but I do understand it's significance and thanks for pointing it out.

Make Them Hear You strikes me as a power ballad yes, but also as a precursor to the civil rights movement of later years. I find its message more powerful than the subtleties of What a Game. MTHY is needed to calm the fears and agitations of a group of young men running purely on anger and indignation. They need to be steered to more conventional means of change, and the song powerfully does that...for me anyway.

[best12bars]

Posted: 12/25/05 at 9:32pm

I also figure that Mother (who has her young son, maybe 10-ish?), was probably about 18-20 when she married, as most women were back then. That would put her at 28-30 in the story. If he's her "younger brother"... I would guess mid-20s (as I said before).

[andyf]

Posted: 12/25/05 at 9:36pm

The version they did at Papermill over the summer didn't have Evelyn on the swing, but I don't think anyone minded; the number was staged so well I really didn't miss it.

Sadly, they did cut "Harry Houdini, Master Escapist," but the show was still beyond amazing.

Updated On: 12/25/05 at 09:36 PM

[broadwaybelter]

Posted: 12/25/05 at 9:38pm

i was listening to it and i couldnt really get into this show

[best12bars]

Posted: 12/25/05 at 9:38pm

Kass --- good points! My only comment (again) about Make Them Hear You is not in its relevance. It's incredibly relevant!... but its message has also been stated eloquently right before in the preceding scene's dialogue. It could be so easily replaced with a few quiet additional lines that would resonate equally as well (if not more so).

As far as What a Game... aside from the balance issue, and the comedic moment... I think it's also a bit of a sad comment in general on fathers everywhere (even today) who would rather take their sons to a "traditional American" baseball game (to bond with them) than actually TALK with them and find out more about each other. It's an important scene for a lot of reasons, the more I think about it.

[EvelynNesbit1906]

Posted: 12/25/05 at 9:44pm

Kass's latest post reminds me of Ragtime's brilliance and continued relevance. It really should have inspired more discussion than it did.
I read in the preface to EL Doctorow's THREE SCREENPLAYS that the musical was successful partially for the warm feelings brought about by the Clinton administration. In other words, it somehow feels dated with Bush in office. Milos Forman likewise said that it would be ridiculous to adapt Ragtime (the novel) for film today because its take on terrorism is so at odds with our current political situation. I don't know that I agree. After I saw the show with iflitifloat at Papermill last year, I thought it really poignant that our conversation in her car on the way back to Manhattan easily turned to 911. It's interesting to read Ragtime in different contexts - and to have seen the story presented in the Watergate era (the novel), in the Reagan era (the film) and in the Clinton era (the musical).
Updated On: 12/25/05 at 09:44 PM

[CompanyGuy]

Posted: 12/25/05 at 9:49pm

What a Game! Love this number. Without it the second act would contain ballads and Atlantic City. One point of Ragtime is to show a change of time. Things are constantly changing, and Father can't do it. It seems that the last thing he can be sure of is baseball. And What a Game, which a funny number, is quite sad once you think on it.
Mother's character changes the most in this show. Her arc is long and arguous. "Back to Before" takes place on a beach, and this is where she finally lets go of her prior "place" in the family. "Back to Before" is so necessary to complete her arc.
"Make Them Hear You"... I agree with your comments on this song. But the thing that makes it pertinent is the fact that it is stating what he wants in the future. For blacks, whites, purples... it is important to him that things progress as far as changing goes.
The Papermill production has the music/lyrics of the School Edition of Ragtime. Just to throw that out there.
Updated On: 12/26/05 at 09:49 PM

[best12bars]

Posted: 12/25/05 at 9:52pm

It had a LOT of relevance as we headed into the millennium, as well. I remember thinking it was an amazing way to look back on the entire previous century and think about how far (or not) we've come as a country and as PEOPLE.

Now that it's 2005, I'm not sure that this "century overview" feeling still exists. I would love to visit Ragtime again now, and see how it resonates without it.

[Urban]

Posted: 12/25/05 at 10:26pm

Finally a thread I can sink my teeth into!

Pity that it is already so advanced. Damn.

Oh well. I remember the first time I heard it. I was actually shockingly enough a little reserved because the lady that was recommending it to me became a little to emotional over it (of course she had this big ol' unfulfilled crush on my boss at the time and that very evening discovered him with his new girlfriend, thus I suppose it all just got a little overwhelming. But still, I am glad I took the plunge to listen to it for that first time...

...because I have never looked back...

Now I know I am in the very small minority when it comes to "What a Game", but for me it suffers the same thing "Beggers at the Feast" does in "Les Mis", but since I have in the past discussed ad nauseum, I'll just shut up and not annoy y'all and talk about all the good stuff.

I don't think there is much I don't like about the show, in fact I love almost anything. It was something I fell in love with the first time (emotional friends aside)

[Jazzysuite82]

Posted: 12/25/05 at 10:35pm

Urban, am I the only one who knows how you feel about Beggars at the Feast? I can't make the corolation to What a Game. How do you feel about the numbers


PS Best12Bars, Mother doesn't decide to leave her marriage during Back to Before. Small but important plot correction.

[inlovewithjerryherman]

Posted: 12/25/05 at 11:54pm

Although it's not perfect, (what show is, really?) I truly feel Ragtime is the successor to Oklahoma! as the next great American musical.

A new, powerful songwriting team, capable of writing a brilliant piece of musical theatre (the only true American contribution to the development of the theatre), one that is about America, that will continue to stay relevant for the rest of time.

Ragtime is a masterpiece, truly the ideal work for the contemporary generation of musical theatre.

[sweetestsiren]

Posted: 12/25/05 at 11:58pm

Ragtime is the first professional production of a show that I had ever seen, and it's still one of my favorities.. I was 12 when I saw it, and our advanced English class read and discussed Doctorow's book and then went to see the musical as a field trip. It was fantastic, and because we had all read the book I think that we got a lot more out of it than seventh-graders typically would. Like others, I cried (during "Wheels of a Dream" and "'Til We Reach That Day").

I LOVE the score, but I do understand how its ballad-heaviness could be offputting to some people. It seems to me to fit the material, though, and there are certainly enough comic moments in the first act especially to balance out the weight of the ballads. "What A Game" does come across as pretty out of the blue, but I adore it and without it the second act would be completely unbalanced. Besides which, it is an important statement about the changing times and the fact that Father's Victorian ideals are becoming obsolete.

I love the way that the score is set up. Ahrens and Flaherty did a masterful job of communicating so much of the novel's plot in the musical. "Ragtime" is a perfect introduction to the characters and times, "Journey On" introduces Tateh and his fellow immigrants and also serves to show the beginning of the rift that opens between Father and Mother. "New Music," one of the show's best songs, again emphasizes the rise of the new era and shows so much about what's going on in the relationships (Father and Mother, Coalhouse and Sarah, Younger Brother's generation and that of his parents). I know that a lot of the brilliance of the interconnectedness of the plot and fictional and historical characters is owed to E.L. Doctorow's novel, but I'm always amazed at how it all intertwines so well in the score.

I think that the set is so, so important to this show that I don't know if I could handle a scaled-down version. The characterizations are of course hugely important, but the setting is the catalyst for absolutely everything that happens. I would just worry that a minimalist presentation of it wouldn't be as immersive, and consequently it would be harder to be in the frame of mind to understand the characters. A lot of the show is, and needs to be, spectacle because it takes place during spectacular times. Props like Evelyn's swing and Coalhouse's Model T seem indispensable to the plot. I'm sure that a scaled-down Ragtime can be played and enjoyed by many people, but I don't think that it would be as enjoyable for me.

Edit: If anything had to be cut from Act II, for me it would be "Sarah Brown Eyes." I love the song, but it's not essential to the plot. "Back to Before" is far too important to a character arc that had been set up the entire show, and "Make Them Hear You" isn't totally essential plot-wise, but it increases the emotional impact of Coalhouse's death. I like the show as is, though. Updated On: 12/25/05 at 11:58 PM

[jackson992]

Posted: 12/26/05 at 2:53am

Oh God I can't believe I forgot to mention my other favorite song from this show, Our Childrem(right title?)

[Popular]

Posted: 12/26/05 at 3:50am

Do I love Ragtime? Why yes, yes I do!!

That's backstage in DC with the tour. And no I'm not a ghost, it's just a very bright combination of lights coming at me from all angles.

[Urban]

Posted: 12/26/05 at 4:09am

Jazzysuite82 - Both songs are bright, peppy and upbeat songs in the middle of somber, heavy and power-ballad-esque second acts. Both are just a little to 11th hour upbeat numbers for my taste (within the show that is - individually I adore both songs, I love "What A Game" - I just have issues on where it is within the show).