Marc Shaiman responds to Michael John La Chiusa- Page 12

[keggss23]

Posted: 8/11/05 at 2:03pm

I have to say this and if I get flamed for it then so be it. Mr. LaChiusa is totally out of line here. It is one thing to say "The American Musical is dead," but for him to single out and personally attack others is quite another. Who does he think he is and what makes him think his work so profound? Why does he think he is the judge of what is art and what isn’t? His arrogance and disregard for others is astounding. I don’t recall him being part of the creative process for Hairspray or any of the other shows he names; yet he speaks about them as if he was actually there. Marc absolutely has the right to publicly defend himself and his work since LaChiusa made his criticism so public. The part that gets me the most fired up is the fact that he publicly criticized Marc and Hairspray and then when Marc publicly fires back, LaChuisa doesn’t have the nerve to respond. Instead, LaChuisa says, "I'm sorry I'm not able to speak as I'm in rehearsal. I'm pleased the essay served its purpose, which was to generate discussion." He made his bed and now he needs to lie in it and not hide behind his fancy “no comment”. LaChuisa should have been prepared to face the backlash that his remarks have caused. In the long run, LaChuisa is going to be the one hurt by his remarks, not Hairspray or any of the other shows he mentions. I doubt the box office for Hairspray is going to be affected by this at all, but LaChuisa’s colleagues and those involved in the theater community will remember LaChuisa’s disregard for their work. LaChuisa will be hurting when the community he so flippantly criticized turns it’s back on him and his “art”.

Borstalboy - Looooooove your avatar.

[MasterLcZ]

Posted: 8/11/05 at 2:36pm

I think Yazbeck is Humpers the Camel.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 8/11/05 at 5:10pm

Oh, I hope not!

[shortydudette]

Posted: 8/12/05 at 3:47am

I'm new to this thing, so let me know if I'm doing something wrong. I actually signed up just to post something about this...feud, for lack of a better word.

Am I missing something here? I didn't realize the article was a criticism of Marc Shaiman. Or anyone for that matter. An observation, yes. Criticism?: Well, one takes offense to those things one believes are insults. To put it plainly, LaChiusa never said "Hairspray is bad because..." or "Marc Shaiman is bad because..." or even "faux-musicals are bad because..." If Mr. Shaiman (or any reader, this article was not a direct attack on Mr. Shaiman or Hairspray, nor was it mostly focused on either of the two) takes offense, it is because he believes that LaChiusa's description of his work is negative. In fact, LaChiusa writes, of the "faux-musical" title, "if that label sounds disparaging, it's not meant to be."
I, personally, and this is my opinion, which you may disagree with if you like; it is something that I think, and the following thoughts were formulated in my head, and I do not presume to impose them on the heads of any reader:
I, personally, believe that LaChiusa is brilliant.
Is it wrong to believe someone is brilliant because he shares my same views?
It's wierd, I see LaChiusa as anything but pretentious, catty, envious. His music, his writing, is as real as anything. Marie Christine, The Wild Party, even the (admittedly) little I know of Hello, Again...they are anything but boring. They are eloquent, beautiful, emotional, honest, and more exciting every time I hear them. Just because they are not full of fluff does not mean they are not interesting and, yes, entertaining. Only, instead of being aware of watching a show, the audience is sucked into the story. We care about the characters. I don't give a **** what happens to Tracy Turnblad.
He just challenges everything with his music, doesn't he? Well, now he's done it with journalism.

[Marc Shaiman]

Posted: 8/12/05 at 6:34am

as I said to my good friend PianoDan earlier in this endless thread

"PianoDan",

I tried to only address his HAIRSPRAY "facts" since the other writers he ATTACKS might have felt "Marc, thanks but don't bring me in to this"

His words are downright shocking towards his colleagues, not just towards my work.

Sorry, but if you don't think phrases like "All sense of invention and craft is abandoned", "Instead of crafted songwriting, there is tune-positioning" and "no matter how mechanical or sloppy the execution may be to discerning eyes and ears" aren't wildly, personally insulting, then boy, you must be Jesus Christ himself. Let's have dinner. Meet 'cha at Angus'!!

Well, the offer goes for you too. If you can honestly look me in the face and tell me those phrases (among others) aren't direct insults, than there is a hamburger with your name on it!

meanwhile, I am (and aren't you all) so bored by this ageless discussion, I am now going to GO SEE HAIRSPRAY IN HELSINKI!!!!

[shortydudette]

Posted: 8/12/05 at 9:35am

Well.
I think I can make the argument that the perception of those phrases as insults depend upon one's aesthetic. I read them as disparaging because, I hope, I have a similar aesthetic to Mr. LaChiusa in my theatrical taste.
I hate to nit-pick, but I do want to respond to the specific quotes you mentioned.
"No matter how mechanical or sloppy the execution may be to discerning ears" is actually preceded by a compliment. The musicals to which the phrase refers are, he is saying, not without the joy of the musical. They have not lost their exuberance or become jaded against the genre (which, for all his criticism, LaChiusa does not seem to support).
"All sense of invention and craft are abandoned" and "instead of crafted songwriting, there is tune-positioning": well, I won't pretend that's a good thing in my book. But, actually, I didn't see it as an insult in my read of the article. The aforementioned musicals are not bad because of their (as he asserts) lack of innovation. They simply aren't innovative. They are thoroughly enjoyable and pleasing to their audiences and executors alike. Not everything can be ground-breaking. If nothing ground-breaking is supported, however, there is a problem. Lack of improvement leads to stagnation leads to decay. The musicals LaChiusa mentions, I think he is saying, are not contributors to the decay, they merely do not help to cure it. I think the article is less a criticism of the musicals in question and more a criticism of the musical theatre audience.

[DottieD'Luscia]

Posted: 8/12/05 at 9:42am

I think with that last remark regarding the audience is definitely going to open another can of worms.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 8/12/05 at 10:18am

Blame it on the bossa nova.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 8/12/05 at 10:27am

I think somebody could write a really funny play based on the groundbreaking insights in the original article. Let's face it, whether we agree with how La Chia wrote what he wrote or not, nobody has ever articulated it before. The article resonates with us, good or bad, because we may have had a vague sense of what he's writing, but it takes a true original genius to explain it for us in a way it has never been explained for us before.

I have sort of a fun idea for a comedy play. You know how La Cucha wrote that the musical is dead, well, the comeback could be, "It's not dead, it's, uh, um, a FABULOUS INVALID!" We could call the play The Fabulous Invalid. It would be, in a word, fabulous, and for the first time in the history of theater, dramatize these cogent ideas La Konkie wrote for the first time in the history of the written word!

Updated On: 8/12/05 at 10:27 AM

[robbiej]

Posted: 8/12/05 at 10:29am

Can I be the invalid?

I play a mean gimp.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 8/12/05 at 10:34am

The way I'm conceiving the play, "the invalid" is more of a metaphor for The State of The Dead Theater. See, there's ghosts. Ghosts of an actor and an actress. And I'm seeing you, Robbiej, as that actress. They haunt a theater over the years, as fashions and styles come and go.

[robbiej]

Posted: 8/12/05 at 10:40am

So I don't get to limp?

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 8/12/05 at 10:44am

If you want to create backstory that involves a reason for her limping, you have a go of it. But please don't collapse during the performance like Audra McDonald or whatever.

[robbiej]

Posted: 8/12/05 at 10:45am

Oh no...never collapse!

I was thinking more a touch of the gout. Something subtle, but noticeable!

They don't give Tonys unless you have a game leg, ya know!

[Fosse76]

Posted: 8/12/05 at 10:46am

Anytime someone says "this isn't meant to be a criticism..." that person is about to criticise. Anytime someone says "I don't mean this as an insult so don't take it that way..." that person is about to insult you. That is a fact. If I were to say to you: "I don't mean to insult you so don't take offense, but you are stupid." you would most certainly be insulted. Semantics in no way changes what is occuring. That whole article was meant as an insult toward much more successful artists than he.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 8/12/05 at 10:49am

Yes, but you have to admit, nobody ever had those ideas before. And nobody has been brave enough to write them down. I think "The theater is dead" is such a startlingly original concept that a LOT can be done with it. Sometimes, brilliantly original geniuses have to hurt a few feelings to break new ground.

[Marc Shaiman]

Posted: 8/12/05 at 11:04am

Namo,

Did I ever tell you you're my hero?

[Brodybaby03]

Posted: 8/12/05 at 11:07am

I don't know if it's just me...but I think Marc's so called "attack" on the audience at the end is DEAD ON!

Maybe it's just me....and I will no doubt bury myself with some of you with this comment, but as an actor and as an audience member....JUST FRIGGIN ENTERTAIN ME!

I mean , do it intelligently, and make me laugh yes......but it's not rocket science....while I am not a fan of The Producers...I do love that they along with Marc, Scott and Jack O'Brien seem to have kind of resurrected Broadway..or classic Broadway. Believe me I think there is always room to grow, and room for something new. But I also would like to have a career one day and want Broadway to continue to prosper, and Marc and Scott seemed to have found a way to give people what they want without a loss of intelligence or integrity. Jerry Mitchell also makes ANYONE feel like the art of dance is well within their reach but he is still giving us gorgeous and fun choreography that will continue to last for years and years! I applaud you Marc for taking a stand....basically where the HELL does anyone get off stealing your thunder???
I enjoyed MJLC's music in Wild Party.....I'll be damned if I ever am able to enjoy Marie Christine....I hope this new show he's doing with Marc Kudisch is good (because I love me some Kudisch)but I just think he's really missed the boat with his stance on what makes a great musical.
Bravo Marc!

[Brodybaby03]

Posted: 8/12/05 at 11:18am

By the way Marc.....I want to bring XANADU and GREASE 2 to Broadway.....
You interested????

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 8/12/05 at 11:19am

I'm surprised La Chimichanga didn't test out his ground breaking ideas in a less widely circulated publication than the one he chose. The way he did it was like a big splashy opening on Broadway without benefit of an out of town try out, where he could have honed his originality to a laser-like intensity. Opera News is one of the biggest magazines in the country, I think I read somewhere that three out of four American households have a subscription and that there's a 120% pass along rate. That's really something for a nation that has the reputation of not liking to read.

[Fosse76]

Posted: 8/12/05 at 11:49am

People have been saying the theatre is dead, for decades! It certainly isn't an original argument, and the argument towards today's musicals isn't that much different than the arguments made against some of the musicals of the past.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 8/12/05 at 11:55am

"Oh, I've been hearing about Broadway disappearing ever since I put on long pants. I mean, it's been the fabulous invalid. You know, but it survives, it survives."
--Illustrator Al Hirschfeld

Updated On: 8/12/05 at 11:55 AM

[PalJoey]

Posted: 8/12/05 at 12:12pm

From a Talkin' Broadway review of a revival of the play with Alice Ripley at Emerson College two years ago:

The original 1938 play, whose title has been used ever since to describe Broadway under duress, ends with a modicum of hope after battling a 10-year decline fueled by the "talkies," the popularity of radio and the Great Depression. And all this after having survived the advent of the automobile, the Great War and the Crash of 1929, not to mention an actors' strike, unionization and the inflation of ticket prices. (Any of this sound familiar?).
The Fabulous Invalid

[alli2]

Posted: 8/12/05 at 12:42pm

hey, does anyone have a copy of the article from the new york times that was published in yesterday's paper about this? let me know, i'd love to have a copy! and on the same note, the day before yesterday, on wednesday, an article was published about Kevin Cahoon, does anyone have an extra copy? i'll pay! email me!

[miss pennywise]

Posted: 8/13/05 at 12:40am

Link to NY Times article about "feud":

August 11, 2005
2 Broadway Composers Do Inharmonious Battle
By ROBERT SIMONSON

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/11/theater/newsandfeatures/11spat.html

Link to NY Times Kevin Cahoon article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/10/theater/newsandfeatures/10chit.html

Updated On: 8/13/05 at 12:40 AM