Miss Saigon casting question...

[Justice]

Posted: 1/30/05 at 10:16am

I noticed in these Non-Equity auditions they are asking for the role of John to be "African American". I am curious as to why. The role has no signifigance to him being black, so why does the character describe him as so? I know Hinton Battle originated him on Broadway, and the one who does it on the cast recording is White. To be honest, I don't see why he has to be colorized. Why can't the part go to a talented Latino? (Same goes for Chris - why does Chris have to be "White"?)

[InTheMoney]

Posted: 1/30/05 at 12:46pm

I believe that the original casting of three Caucasians as Ellen, Chris, and John in contrast to the rest of the cast (who were Philipino or Asian with the exception of a couple of the whores who had the right look anyway and Jonathon Pryce as the Engineer) was to make the clash of cultures more striking. The races of the actors is used as an outer symbol of their different views, prejudices, and beliefs.

For example, Kim believes she is John's wife because she has had a child by him and they had a RELIGIOUS ceremony. For John, marriage is a LEGAL contract (or at least there must be some legal involvement such as obtaining a marriage license) and children outside of wedlock do not constitute an eternal bond. These beliefs are defined by their races and cultures.

By having a white Christian John and a Philipino Buddhist(?) Kim, the audience cannot forget for a second that "I come from a world that's so different from all that you are".

Also, in the UK at least, specifying race for three American roles has been used to counteract the fact that when advertising for girls for the show they specify Asian or Oriental appearance (which would of course be illegal in any other profession).

I can't, though, understand why they've specified Afro-Caribbean for John - that doesn't make sense.

[UsherMJD]

Posted: 1/30/05 at 1:20pm

I think inthemoney is a little confused. . . Chris is the character who has a child with Kim. Not John, but there IS a line in the show where kim meets Ellen, and she assumes that ellen is John's wife. In the original production, John was white.

Unfortunatley, roles become type cast this way. I'm not sure why. But the same has happened with Jesus Christ Superstar. Since Ben Vereen played the role on Broadway, Judas has most often been played by an actor of african desent.

In my opinion it shouldn't make a difference, but this is how the business goes. It seems that this non-equity company is merely casting people from what the trend was on Broadway a few years back instead of looking at the script.

So No, John does not HAVE to be played by a specific race. I find it odd that a somewhat naive Vietnamese girl in the 1970's would assume that a white woman was married to a black man, but whatever. . . I think if you're going to cast John as a black man, then Chris and Ellen should also be cast that way in order to make that one scene make a little more sense.

(Or maybe not. . . this is just hypothetical) Updated On: 1/30/05 at 01:20 PM

[Justice]

Posted: 1/30/05 at 6:16pm

In the B'way production I saw (Lea's 10 year anniversary), Ellen was Asian. That made more sense without mention than the whole character of John's mandatory blackness.

[jo]

Posted: 1/31/05 at 7:02am

The show's setting is in Vietnam...If Ellen were cast as an Asian, then the contrast of Kim and Chris's girl back home ( supposedly a typical white American) may not hold true.

Btw, Kim is Vietnamese, not Filipino. The Philippines is predominantly Christian ( Roman Catholics representing 80% of the population), so the likelihood of meeting a Filipino Buddhist is not very probable. Many Filipinos were cast in the original production in London because this is where Cameron Mackintosh, Alain Boublil and Claude Michel Schonberg had found their Miss Saigon ( Lea and her alternate Monique Wilson who also played Kim in the original London production) and many of the ensemble members in an audition held here in Manila. Many of them came from the same repertory company, which same theatre group provided many of the subsequent cast members in productions around the world.

[BlueWizard]

Posted: 1/31/05 at 12:08pm

I thought casting an Asian as Ellen (and she was FANTASTIC) was very effective. Ellen isn't really "Chris's girl back home"; he doesn't meet her until after he returns to America for a year. With an Asian cast as Ellen, it could be that Chris was trying to replace Kim -- imagine what Ellen must feel like, thinking she was just substituting in for Chris' true love.

(Or maybe he just has a thing for Asian women. )

Updated On: 1/31/05 at 12:08 PM

[LittleFish8386]

Posted: 1/31/05 at 12:19pm

See I completely disagree. I thought casting Ellen as an Asian was one of the worst non-traditional castings I have ever seen.

Number 1) I think it is confusing as all heck for people who aren't familiar with the show. The first time they meet Ellen, they see her lying in bed with Chris. How are we supposed to know that this is his wife, and not another "whore?" I looked around me when I saw the show, and there were many a confused face, and lots of whispering.

Number 2) The whole controversy is race based. Ellen is a good old fashioned white bread and mayo type of gal, and she enters into a marriage thinking that her and Chris are going to make some babies of the like. All of a sudden she discovers that Chris had this love affair in Vietnam, and there is a little half-breed kid (who is supposed to look just like Chris) running around in South East Asia. If she were Asian, why would the prospect of taking home a mixed-breed baby (that actually looks more like her) trouble her so much? Surely it would be a lot easier to explain if she was Asian---he could almost be her kid. If Ellen is white, then it helps reinforce her unwillingness not to accept Tam. What will people back home think? "Chris is married to me, we want kids of our own..."

That being said, I thought the Asain gal who played Ellen was absolutely fantastic, and I would love to see her in something else,, and/or playing Kim. John doesn't have to be played by an African-American, but it just seems to be the norm nowadays.

[Switz78]

Posted: 1/31/05 at 1:07pm

Just ny two cents, but I really enjoy an african-american in the role of John because of the song he sings. Bui Doi is about being an outcast and a blck man during that time in the army and in America can understand and relate to that. (This made more sense in my head and I'm at work so don't have to make it all wordy)
Plus, "a talented Latino" should be the Engineer, not Chris because of the time period and the soldiers who fought in Vietnam. This is somewhat historically based (many American soldiers had children with the Vietnam women and married them)so it only makes sense that Chris is a white soldier.
It would be like making Coalhouse white or latino in Ragtime, just doesn't work.

[eatlasagna]

Posted: 1/31/05 at 1:20pm

as someone was saying... yeah there are confused people who don't know who Ellen is in Act I... but I like that... it leaves you wanting more for Act II... you sit there and think to yourself "what happened?"... i've seen the show with friends who get so confused but i tell them, there's another act coming... and once the show is over... it all makes sense... it's really all about patience...

i've never really cared if John was black or white or whatever... and i always thought that when Kim was implying that John and Ellen were married that, hell, if an asian girl and a white man could get married why couldn't a white woman and a black guy do it too?

either way... GO MISS SAIGON

[Justice]

Posted: 1/31/05 at 7:51pm

Okay...Ellen does not want to except the kid because he's Asain. She doesn't want to except the kid because the Kid is Kim's. Regardless of what race the kid was, if he were white, Ellen wouldn't except it, either.
I love that Ellen was Asain, because exactly what was said earlier. He is reminded of Kim - but with someone that he can have without all the drama...until the drama resurfaces and finds him.

[Justice]

Posted: 2/6/05 at 2:11pm

Carl Anderson??

[erinrebecca]

Posted: 2/6/05 at 3:17pm

Yes, Ben Vereen played Judas onstage prior to the film being made. Carl Anderson played Judas in the film, and was fantastic. He also reprised his role on tour a couple of years ago and, having seen him, I would have to say that he was amazing. Judas is not always played by a black actor, though, the most recent revival on Broadway is a good example. Tony Vincent was Judas, and a very pretty one at that. :)