Mel Gibson's The Passion

etoile
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re: re: Rich article#151
Posted: 3/7/04 at 1:35am
Well I admitted to thinking that Namo is as hot as papalovesmambo and Dollypop but I don't think I've reached that restraining order stage...yet.
Rest in peace, Iflitifloat.
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re: re: re: Rich article#152
Posted: 3/7/04 at 1:41am
not a restraining order for you, silly!!
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re: re: re: re: Rich article#153
Posted: 3/7/04 at 3:35am
"On your right is a fresco by Canavesio, The Crowning of Thorns, which portrays the exact moment two bestial torturers spit contemptuously into the face of Christ. Walking a little further, let's stop and meditate on the writhing, tormented Christ of Van Dyck's crucifixion.
"But why stop at scenes of the Passion? Consider the fresco of the dismembered head of St. John the Baptist by the school of Giovanetti..."

There is no artist named "Canavesio" or "School of the Giovanetti". And the Met does not own any Van Dyck "Crucifixions".

I know the old master collections at the Met better than anyone here, so be very careful in what you post about them.

I know what you are getting at - that European art is filled with extremely gory images of the Passion of Christ (German art in particular). But even in Counter-Reformation Spain (which was probably the most austerely conservative Catholic country in Europe) there was a move away from the Gothic torrents of blood and bloody welts and bruises in favor of images of contemplative power where the emphasis is on the Christ transcending his sacrifice: the large El Greco "Crucifixion" from the Louvre, recently seen at the Met and the "Christ after the Flagellation Adored by the Christian Soul" by Velasquez in the National Gallery, London, and the Met's own Workshop of Zurbaran "Crucifixion" are good examples of this trend.
"Christ, Bette Davis?!?!"
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re: re: re: re: re: Rich article#154
Posted: 3/7/04 at 7:14am
You know, that struck a chord of familiarity with me when I read Frank Rich's article, too, but it didn't click into focus until etiole pointed out the similarities. So I went back and found Namo's post:

FindingNamo  Feb 22,  01:20 AM
" I honestly think that the violence arouses Mel. Sexually. I think that is the great "conflict" he feels, that's what all the wailing is over. I think he uses the violence for the same kind of pornographic thrill that Max Steiner uses teenage girl imagery. To each his own, I say.... "

And then from the Rich article (3/7 edition of the NYTimes...refer to the link magruder posted...):

"With its laborious build-up to its orgasmic spurtings of blood and other bodily fluids, Mr. Gibson's film is constructed like nothing so much as a porn movie, replete with slo-mo climaxes and pounding music for the money shots. Of all the "Passion" critics, no one has nailed its artistic vision more precisely than Christopher Hitchens, who on "Hardball" called it a homoerotic "exercise in lurid sadomasochism" for those who "like seeing handsome young men stripped and flayed alive over a long period of time."

Remarkable similarities. But if what you suggest is true, etoile..that he's not posting (be he Richard G or Rich...or some other "known" byline) due to a non-compete clause or conflict of interest... is that even a possibility? Is that how it works?
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Updated On: 3/7/04 at 07:14 AM
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re: re: re: re: re: re: Rich article#155
Posted: 3/7/04 at 7:46am
I think I've got it! Namo is the 'comic' strip artist known as "The Hun"!
"Christ, Bette Davis?!?!"
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re: re: re: re: re: re: re: Rich article#156
Posted: 3/7/04 at 7:54am
Would that be Richard the Hun?
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re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: Rich article#157
Posted: 3/7/04 at 11:18am
MasterLCZ, perhaps it is you who needed to exhibit more care when reading my post. I wrote," Have you ever walked through...a...museum LIKE the Met..." I conflated all the works of art under one (fictional) roof to make my point.

Canavesio did indeed exist and painted frescoes which can be found at the pilgrimage chapel of Notres-Dames-des-Fontaines, a few miles outside La Brigue in Provence. I have seen them and they are extraordinary. They are the subject of a book written by Veronique Pletsch, "PAINTER AND PRIEST: Giovanni Canavesio and the Passion Cycle at Notre-Dame-des-Fontaines," which is to be published soon. You can also find reproductions of them in the Provence edition of the "Art-Architecture-Landscape" series published by Konemann and in "The Most Beautiful Villages in Provence."
The school of Giovanetti also did exist. The tempera paintings from this school representing episodes from the life of St. John the Baptist, including his beheading, can be found in the chapel of the Val de Benediction charterhouse in Villaneuve-les-Avignon.
You are correct about the Van Dyck Crucifixion. It can be found in the sacristy of San Marcello di Corsi in Rome.
Updated On: 3/7/04 at 11:18 AM
etoile
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Iflitifloat and Master, something tells me that Namo would spell it with a "g" on the end of the name Richard the Hun.

And often, especially in the media, there are contractual clauses that forbid reaching overlapping audiences or markets. Similar to the idea that Kristin can only sign her Sony CD. The fact the he's been seen lurking tells me he at least is keeping his finger on the pulse of what's going on here. He's not been banned from posting, so his absence is self imposed. What else would explain it?

And I can't believe the restraining order idea would be appropriate for Namo. Those seem more fitting for...say...a TheaterTeacher or a GuyGiltzy.
Rest in peace, Iflitifloat.
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From your post, MM you definitely made it sound like the Met owned those pictures that you refer to.

You seem to know a great deal about exceedingly minor provincial French painters, though given a choice, I prefer the more courtly work of Josse Liefrinxe, the Master of St. Giles and Jean Hey.

As far as Van Dyck passion subjects, my favorite is the "Ecce Homo" in Birmingham, which has a very pale and sophisticated harmony of color. Van Dyck's work as a religious painter mostly just misses, in my opinion, though I do think the Munich "Lamentation" (again, with a relatively unscathed Christ) is tremendous.
"Christ, Bette Davis?!?!"
Updated On: 3/7/04 at 12:58 PM
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What people are overlooking is that in Medieval times, it was customary for people to contemplate the Passion of Christ with great fervor. They venerated his wounds and in many instances, they became stigmatics--where these very wounds appeared on their bodies. St. Francis of Assisi, St. Padre Pio, St. Rita of Cascia and many others bore these bleeding wounds on their bodies with pride. All of them claim they received their stigmata while contemplating Christ's sufferings. Quite frankly, all of this can be a form of "mind over matter", or what Carol Channing claims is "what you perceive of you will become".

I guess it all points to the fact that Mel Gibson has a Medieval approach to The Greatest Story Ever Told. (I wonder if he owns a penitential whip or wears a hairshirt?)
"Long live God!" (GODSPELL)
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oodles, mr. gobson has oodles#161
Posted: 3/8/04 at 9:42am
$212 million in the first 12 days. not bad for a jesus movie with subtitles. and that's just domestic...
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re: oodles, mr. gobson has oodles#162
Posted: 3/8/04 at 10:00am
You're right, Papa. Box Office is a kind of bottom line. As Ronald Reagan famously said after Jesse Jackson negotiated the release of the hostages, "Well, you can't argue with success.."
"I'm a comedian, but in my spare time, things bother me." Garry Shandling
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re: re: oodles, mr. gobson has oodles#163
Posted: 3/8/04 at 12:48pm
To quote Frank Rich again:

"If Hitler did a movie with these numbers, we'd give him his next deal," one Jewish mogul told me in a phone conversation this week.



"Gif me the cobra jool!"
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The Passion of the Christ#164
Posted: 3/9/04 at 8:56pm
a question that may seem very obvious to others, but.... why is the film called "the passion of THE Christ" ??

is it like "THE" one and only??
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re: The Passion of the Christ#165
Posted: 3/9/04 at 8:59pm
Sequels could be

1. Mel Gibson's " The Resurrection "
2. Mel Gibson's " The Afterlife"
3. Mel Gibson's " The Devil "
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re: re: The Passion of the Christ#166
Posted: 3/9/04 at 9:02pm
no, really is it a sign of respect?
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re: re: re: The Passion of the Christ#167
Posted: 3/9/04 at 9:32pm
The word CHRISTOS is the Greek approximation for the Hebrew word, Messias, or, "the anointed one." Thus, it is a title, not a proper name, which accounts for the usage of the article before it.
Updated On: 3/9/04 at 09:32 PM
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re: re: re: re: The Passion of the Christ#168
Posted: 3/10/04 at 6:46pm
aggg, my throat hurts. i can't think about the Passion right now.
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re: re: re: re: re: The Passion of the Christ#169
Posted: 3/11/04 at 10:05pm
Lew Wallace's novel BEN-HUR is subtitled "at tale of THE Christ"

"Christ" is synonymous with "Messiah", which is commonly prefaced with "the". Therefore, Gibson's movie is inferred as being a tale of THE Messiah.
"Long live God!" (GODSPELL)
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thanks!
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My wife & I saw it today & were blown away

She would not have seen it on her own. She is Jewish but did not think it was anti semetic. The actor who plated JC was great & had to go thru a physical hell to make it. The part of Mary was sizeable In most religious epics, she has a few lines & smiles a little at the beginning. The religious epics of the 60's were sanitized. This could never have been done back than. It is interesting to think of all the movies done & how each role in each film was written & how each role was interpreted by the actors. The crucifixion scene was powerful ending with an earthquake. In Barabbas, it ended with a real solar eclipse. The resurrection was understated. In The Greatest Story Ever Told, Pat Boone dressed in a white robe as an angel was sitting in the tomb after Christ had risen

I noticed a goof & there were a few others ( continuity etc )I am told. The film has undeniable power & will be debated for years to come. It is interesting to see a new take on an old story.

I highly recommend it , for whatever it is worth.
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Updated On: 3/21/04 at 11:53 PM
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Okay, Jesus was a Jew...and all the Jews in the movie had big noses. Why doesn't he have a big nose in the movie? What's up with that?
Updated On: 3/21/04 at 12:02 AM
etoile
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Perhaps Mel, like so many others, missed the big nose memo. Didn't realize it was an obligatory requirement.
Rest in peace, Iflitifloat.
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The man raised Lazarus from the dead. How hard could some self-rhinoplasty be?
Can you hear me now? Twitter: @NamoInExile
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Two parts of the Passion not in any other religious epic I have ever seen

1. Peter cutting off the ear of a soldier & Christ putting it back on.
2. Roman soldier piercing Christs side to make sure he is dead
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