PASSION Off-Broadway Preview Thread- Page 6

[Addison D.]

Posted: 2/21/13 at 11:07pm

I had the same reaction, Eric.

So many people inadvertently betray their own insecurities when they encounter someone else making a mistake--there's a kind of glee in they way they pounce on the opportunity to show what they know. At this point, surely, Mr. Sondheim knows that WE know that he's a smart dude, and there's such equanimity and assurance about the way he engages in these conversations. I love hearing him talk about his work and his process and his themes, etc., and when someone gets it wrong he corrects them because they are wrong--not because he needs to be right.

Updated On: 2/21/13 at 11:07 PM

[Addison D.]

Posted: 2/23/13 at 12:07am

Saw it tonight.

While I can't say that I feel that Giorgio's emotional progression is, ultimately, convincing, I certainly think that Silverman is doing an incredible job of almost making it work. By that I mean that he is doing wonderful things with flawed material. In the scene where he is confronted by the Commander I--quite unexpectedly--had tears in my eyes. I may not be convinced about the path he traveled, but he was absolutely briliant at depicting every step on that path.

I found Melissa Errico's voice delightful and full of an appropriate amount of strength and color.

Kuhn was, I thought, wonderful. Yes--there was some laughter at the sight of her with a suitcase in her hand, but the laughter was fleeting, and the scene that follows--on the train--was a high point for me in her performance. I cannot join those who so easily condemn Fosca as evil. She is manipulative and selfish, and frightened and lonely, and unrealistic. But she comes by all of those traits honestly, and I was surprised at how Kuhn opened my heart to Fosca's plight.

For those who still have yet to buy tickets, there is no bad seat in the house, although I agree with those who pointed out the advantages of stage right--you have a view of the orchestra loft as well as the actors' exits.

Updated On: 2/23/13 at 12:07 AM

[After Eight]

Posted: 2/23/13 at 6:54am

"I cannot join those who so easily condemn Fosca as evil. She is manipulative and selfish, and frightened and lonely, and unrealistic. But she comes by all of those traits honestly, "

She comes by them "honestly?"

Hey, three cheers for Fosca! She comes by her manipulative, selfish predation "honestly." Because if she had come by them "dishonestly," oh, well then, and only then, would her behavior have been worthy of condemnation. But not here.

The lengths to which people will go here to condone/champion vile conduct is astounding.

Oh, and three cheers too for Sondheim for correcting an interviewer's mistake. Now that's surely to be singled out for praise!

As for the poster who reproached the interviewer for not having done his research---it happens all the time on BWW, including by that selfsame poster.

[Addison D.]

Posted: 2/23/13 at 8:24am

In my book, the character in 'Passion' who truly deserves to be called 'evil' is Clara.

Who is Fosca endangering with her behavior? Principally, of course, herself. She is putting Giorgio at some risk, but he's a captain in the army and, in theory, can take care of himself.

Clara is betraying her husband and endangering the stability of her family, including her little son. She is a married woman with a child--she has NO business running around the city's parks, picking up soldiers like an army camp whore.

But nobody ever talks about Clara as evil; she's a pretty girl. A flower.

It's Fosca, the ugly one, who must be condemned. Further evidence of Sondheim's subtle genius, I'd say.

[henrikegerman]

Posted: 2/23/13 at 8:32am

"Kuhn was, I thought, wonderful. Yes--there was some laughter at the sight of her with a suitcase in her hand, but the laughter was fleeting, and the scene that follows--on the train--was a high point for me in her performance."

Perhaps others have pointed this out, but there was definitely laughter during that scene in the original Broadway production. And no wonder there would be. It's a moment of uncomfortable excess. That's what it's supposed to be, and nervous, embarrassed laughter is a genuine, understandable response.

[WhizzerMarvin]

Posted: 2/23/13 at 8:37am

Addison- You have beautifully described why Kuhn and Silverman are so effective in this production. You also give great insight as to why the viewer is able to feel compassion and perhaps even admiration for Fosca, despite some of her actions.

Thanks for taking the time to share.

[henrikegerman]

Posted: 2/23/13 at 8:46am

After Eight, what the hell does condoning anyone's conduct have to do with how one feels about Passion?

And with your apparent insistence on virtue, I'm curious.

How do you feel about Macbeth, Carmen, Threepenny Opera, Sweeney Todd and Don Giovanni?


Updated On: 2/23/13 at 08:46 AM

[Addison D.]

Posted: 2/23/13 at 9:02am

At the end of the day, I am just not willing to condemn someone--real or fictional--for behavior that I know that I have exhibited in my own life.

Maniupulative? Selfish? Frightened? Lonely? Unrealistic?

Hell yes. Often all of the above. Before breakfast.

That is perhaps at the core of Sondheim's brilliance for me. The words are clever. The notes are perfect. But it is his willingness--his insistence--to go beyond black and white to the Gray, where real life actually happens, and explore the way we all live with those compromises and shifting definitions.

Witches can be right.

Giants can be good.

Updated On: 2/23/13 at 09:02 AM

[After Eight]

Posted: 2/23/13 at 9:17am

"After Eight, what the hell does condoning anyone's conduct have to do with how when feels about Passion? "

Everything.

It begins and ends right there.

Too bad you and those of your ilk can't understand that. But since you can't, you'll just have to take my word for it, which in the (acknowledgedly fruitless) spirit of largesse, I hereby grant you.

And Addison,

Your assertions are chilling.

[henrikegerman]

Posted: 2/23/13 at 9:35am

Oh, ok. I guess we are just in different ilks.

Speaking for my ilk, the question about a character's theatrical appeal is not a moral one. It is one of whether the character interests me. I am interested in Fosca because of her honesty, guts and lack of illusions about life. (btw the show doesn't quite work for me, or at least it didn't when I saw the original prod., but for very different reasons).

Apart from all that, I don't find Fosca to be morally deficient. But perhaps that's also a function of my ilk.



Updated On: 2/23/13 at 09:35 AM

[Addison D.]

Posted: 2/23/13 at 9:39am

Yep--that's me: Ice, ice, baby.

[After Eight]

Posted: 2/23/13 at 10:08am

"I guess we are just in different ilks."

I'm the ilk of human kindness.

[Brick]

Posted: 2/23/13 at 11:11am

Addison, yes. Hell yes.

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 2/23/13 at 7:28pm

Henrik said: "Perhaps others have pointed this out, but there was definitely laughter during that scene in the original Broadway production. And no wonder there would be. It's a moment of uncomfortable excess. That's what it's supposed to be, and nervous, embarrassed laughter is a genuine, understandable response"

In the video linked above, Sondheim specifically brings this up. He claims (and having only seen the DVD filmed without an audience, I can not vouch for this, though I do have an audio of a preview that does have a lot of tittering) that that got a huge reaction in previews, so they very carefully timed it that the moment wasn't telegraphed in the final frozen version of the show, and that it worked. The implication he makes it that in previews she came on with the suitcases as soon as the scene opened which made the audience, rightly, see her as a stalker (to which Sondheim says Fosca isn't--she's obsessed which he says is different--your mileage may vary.)

Addison, despite your despicably cold heart, I really appreciated your review. Makes me wish it all the more--and I think, at least in theory, I agree completely with you. (We'll leave it to God, and AfterEight, to judge what that means of me.) OK, maybe not completely, I don't see Clara as evil either--running away with Giorgio in 19th Century Italy (even more so than, say, 19th Century England) would be pretty much the kiss of death, and mean never seeing her family again. Giorgio isn't shown to be a particularly rich man, and it doesn't seem like it would lead to much of a life at all. But, while I don't think we should overly sympathize with Fosca--and I don't think we're meant to--I actually think anyone who sees Fosca as evil is the one who should be worried about their moral judgement.

That said, I think many who have a problem with the show (and by this I mean more the average theatre goer than anyone on here), do so because they have a visceral reaction that Sondheim is telling us that the only true or worthy love is the kind Fosca shows to Giorgio. Which I don't think is the message at all. Sondheim often says that it's not so much that he wants his audience to like or dislike a show, but what he cares about is that they understand it, and maybe in this case that simply never fully happened for everyone.

(It should be pointed that in the movie Passione D'Amore, Fosca is shown much more to be almost a horror movie creature. The movie is much more extreme--with moments of weird humour, either the grotesque stuff, including a dwarf, or the slapstick stuff with Giorgio's valet. The original book--which I haven't read since it came out in English--is much more in tone with the show. One correction to Sondheim's interview in that video I can't help making is he says something about how the novel, Fosca, is a "doorstopper" like most 19th Century novels which makes it sound like a Tolstoy piece, or at the least Dickens. Unless the translation made huge edits, it's actually very short by 19th C standards--I don't remember it being over 200 pages.)

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 2/23/13 at 7:31pm

"As for the poster who reproached the interviewer for not having done his research---it happens all the time on BWW, including by that selfsame poster. "

I don't mind you using my name, unless you meant someone else? I was making a joke about the Wilder story, but I guess it flopped. Either way--absolutely, although I hope if I was hosting an interview with Sondheim I would try to make sure everything I mentioned was based in fact, but as Addison said, the way Sondheim corrects someone, I wouldn't take any offence by it. The same isn't true when other people correct people on here. But I certainly appreciate that you take the time to do so, so since you're giving three cheers for Sondheim making corrections, I pass on those three cheers to you too! regular peas in a pod you two are!

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 2/23/13 at 7:33pm

"I'm the ilk of human kindness."

Can you please make this your signature A8? It would help some of us to be reminded of it after reading your posts.

[henrikegerman]

Posted: 2/23/13 at 7:41pm

Eric, actually, now that I recall, I did see the show in preview.

[Addison D.]

Posted: 2/23/13 at 8:11pm

Given my depraved moral relatvism, it probably comes as no surprise that I don't **actually** feel the need to identify ANY of the principals as 'Evil'. My point was simply that, ultimately, Clara's actions are likely to cause damage to a greater number of innocent bystanders than Fosca's, which might be seen as a relative gauge of Evil-ness. (Evil-ocity?)

And, to your point, Eric--it isn't her refusal to run away with Giorgio which I "judge". (Does anyone think that he made that offer sincerely? Wasn't he in a relationship with a married woman precisely because of the inherent limits such a liason places on commitment?)

The die was cast long before that--her 'bad act' was when she chose to step out of her marriage in the first place--placing her own wicked desires (as God and After8 might say) above the needs of her husband and, more importantly, her child.

Updated On: 2/24/13 at 08:11 PM

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 2/23/13 at 8:14pm

And of course making any audience that gets any enjoyment from watching said action performed on stage, therefor implicit.

Actually, after I typed that, I kinda realized that you didn't mean what I thought--but thanks for clearing it up.

I do think that Giorgio suddenly wanting "more" from Clara is meant to parallel what's happening with him and Fosca (not sure if that really means it's bcause he sees he could have "more" or what, but...)

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 2/23/13 at 9:15pm

"Eric, actually, now that I recall, I did see the show in preview."

Thanks for clearing it up--which leads some truth to what Sondheim says, although I suspect the scene often gets a reaction, regardless.

Did you see it early enough in previews that Loving You hadn't been written yet, out of curiousity?

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 2/23/13 at 9:42pm

And, since I have no edit key, kindly replace my use of the word "implicit", two posts above, with "complicit." Thank you.

[henrikegerman]

Posted: 2/24/13 at 10:35am

You're welcome, Eric. "Loving You" was in the show when I saw it.

[Wayman_Wong]

Posted: 3/3/13 at 12:18am

Gee, it's hard to believe that no one else has seen 'Passion' and posted in this thread in nearly a week, especially in a week in which it just opened. But I've really found the reactions fun and fascinating to read, and many of them are so insightful, notably (for me) the comments by Addison D., WhizzerMarvin and lemiz3001.

For those who might be interested in some of Ryan Silverman's thoughts on 'Passion,' here's a recent interview we did with him ...
Talkin' Broadway: Ryan Silverman

[jayinchelsea]

Posted: 3/4/13 at 8:30am

I admit that I dragged my feet on buying a ticket for PASSION, it being one of my least favorite Sondheim shows (although the Patti/Audra/Michael PBS version turned me around quite a bit), but based on the Times review, I bought premium seats (most of what was left was way over on the sides). But what about the other reviews? Is everyone so Sondheim-ed out that it was not important enough? People couldn't wait to breathlessly post the CINDERELLA reviews (really?) but not a word about PASSION. Did I miss something?

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 3/4/13 at 12:31pm

I think it's just that Cinderella is a big "new" Broadway show--Passion is a very small scale off-Broadway revival.

This thread though has links to a good half dozen reviews: https://forum.broadwayworld.com/readmessage.php?thread=1057105&id=4382691