Orpheus Descending or Cat on a Hot Tin Roof?

[Scripps2]

Posted: 9/23/12 at 7:22am

Two producing theatres, both local to me, are each doing a production of one of the above. I've seen Cat ten million times in my life already, including the recent James Earl Jones production, and felt no need to see it again. That is until they announced the cast, which has Zoe Boyle (Lavinia in Downton Abbey) as Maggie and Jaime Parker (who seems to have beefed up a bit since he played me in the OLC, OBC and film versions of The History Boys) as Brick.



On the hand, Orpheus Descending is a Tennessee Williams play I've never seen and know little about. Is it a neglected masterpiece or an also-ran in the Williams portfolio? Even, if the latter, I'm not averse to lesser works of great masters as there are usually some riches within.

Can I afford to ignore Orpheus Descending, or am I being distracted by TV stars?

[OtherDaryl]

Posted: 9/23/12 at 8:58am

Orpheus is well worth the time and patience if the production is well done. The Redgrave/Hall production 20 some odd years ago was near perfect.

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 9/23/12 at 1:05pm

Orpheus is perhaps my fave Williams play, but it's damn hard to do well. As mentioned, the Redgrave/Hall version which was adapted for TV from the late 80s is amazing.

[egghumor]

Posted: 9/23/12 at 2:15pm

I've seen and/or read the great majority of Williams' plays. Orpheus Descending is probably my favorite of them all (I have a great weakness for The Rose Tattoo as well). The film version, "The Fugitive Kind," I think is the best film adaptation of his plays. Like others have said, it's a difficult play to perform successfully, but I would still strongly recommend that you attend a production.

[henrikegerman]

Posted: 9/23/12 at 5:11pm

I'm confused, Scripps. He played you in The History Boys? OK, got it Scripps is a character in that.

never mind.

Updated On: 9/23/12 at 05:11 PM

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 9/23/12 at 5:26pm

Must you choose either/or?

See both!

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 9/23/12 at 6:11pm

A clip from the Peter Hall production's tv adaptation of Orpheus http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZbHfaFG5yc

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 9/23/12 at 7:15pm

I agree: see both if you can. But if you cannot, ORPHEUS is not a "minor" work.

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 9/23/12 at 7:20pm

Orpheus also has an interesting element if you're a Williams fan, being a re-write of his first major staged play, the much more literal Battle of Angels. Reading it after getting to know Orpheus is pretty fascinating (at least for a geek like myself).

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 9/23/12 at 7:22pm

Elia Kazan helped with the re-write (as he did with all of the plays he worked on with Williams, probably most famously with Cat since Williams made all published editions include his original third act and the third act Kazan insisted on--modern versions usually used Williams' 70s rewrite which includes elements of both). While they went on to work on Sweet Bird of Youth after Orpheus' flop Broadway production, Williams never really got over the fact that Kazan dropped out of directing it on stage, to work on William Inge's The Dark at the Top of the Stairs instead, which also caused Williams to drop Inge as a friend.

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 9/23/12 at 7:22pm

I agree, Erik. Guess that makes me a geek, too.

[zyx987]

Posted: 9/23/12 at 9:24pm

I'm guessing the Orpheus is at the Royal Exchange. I am seeing both, but like you I had no intention of seeing Cat on a Hot Tin Roof till I saw the cast.

If I had to pick I would choose Orpheus, I think Imogen Stubbs is fantastic and I would see her in anything and the director Sarah Frankcom's recent stuff at the Exchange has been very good.

[Scripps2]

Posted: 9/24/12 at 1:52pm

Thank you folks - that's a great response and much appreciated! There's a clear message that Orpheus is well worth seeing and not to be ignored.

As for seeing both, I've got so much on my Autumn theatregoing list that something is going to have to drop off it. Maybe I should dump the UK tour of American Idiot?!

Eric: you're as knowledgeable about Williams as you are about Sondheim! Do you get time to eat, sleep and breath in between absorbing the works of these masters (and watching TV costume dramas as well)?

zyx987: yep - it's the RX production I'm thinking of - I've never seen Imogen Stubbs in anything. I've enjoyed some of SF's works at the RX more than others - Beautiful Thing was good; Miss Julie underwhelming.

[adam.peterson44]

Posted: 9/24/12 at 2:00pm

If i were choosing, I'd go with Orpheus and Cat on a Hot Tin Roof and drop American Idiot. (Having seen all 3.)

Posted: 9/24/12 at 2:03pm

I read this post quickly.

i thought it said
Orfeh's descendants were Cat in the Hat proof?

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 9/24/12 at 6:37pm

Eric: you're as knowledgeable about Williams as you are about Sondheim! Do you get time to eat, sleep and breath in between absorbing the works of these masters (and watching TV costume dramas as well)?

I doubt he sleeps, since he also finds time to be an expert on almost everything about the 1970s!

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 9/24/12 at 7:42pm

Ha, kind of you both to say (I think, not sure on the 70s thing... And of course, you obviously haven't heard from people on here how I simply google everything immediately before making a post ).

Scripps, I actually got into Williams prob right around the same time as Sondheim--I think I saw Cat on a Hot Tin Roof on TV when I was 10 or 11 (I may have seen parts of Streetcar before), and soon afterwards a cable station here had a marathon of a bunch of the movie versions of his works, plus a very good documentary (Orpheus of the Stage I think it was called), and I became obsssed. Williams and Sondheim are definitely the two top interests for me, theatre-wise, even now 20 years later (which is a scary thought).

[Scripps2]

Posted: 9/25/12 at 3:40pm

"not sure on the 70s thing..."

Gaveston: with a comment like the above, I don't think we'll be able to get Eric to admit to wearing Halston tops and handle bar moustaches.

"I actually got into Williams prob right around the same time as Sondheim"

I was hooked on Sondheim as a child but I didn't really discover Williams for another ten years.

I did, however, intuitively picked up on the gay sensitivity within their work long before I knew either of them were gay.

[darquegk]

Posted: 9/25/12 at 3:47pm

The gay sensibility in Williams is MILES ahead of the sensibility in Sondheim, which you could probably overlook in a lot of his more major shows.

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 9/25/12 at 5:07pm

Ha, I'venever worn women's clothing,but if I did have a Halston piece in my closet, I could be tempted... No comment on the mustache, but I do justify my lack of chest hair grooming as a homage to the era

I think at first what attracted me to Williams was the movies--all these glamorous stars in old melodramas--I was already a fan of old movies anyway. Then quickly I realized all the issues of censorship, changes, etc--and as a kid I used to be fascinated to see and compare how things had been changed--and got into the plays (my high school theatre program audition monologue was from Small Craft Warnings which now seems odd, since I was still kinda ashamed of my sexuality yet thought nothing of doing it). But definitely the gay sensibility was an attraction even at 10 or 11 (maybe especially, since I hadn't really seen that as blatantly before).

I think I agree with Scripps that that aspect also attracted me to Sondheim (though a part of it was, after being obsessed as a kid with Oliver, Annie, the Disney musicals and then Rodgers and Hammerstein, suddenly playing Company , or whatever, felt terribly grown up and sophisticated in a way I didn't know musicals to be--not to say R&H aren't sophisticated, as I'm sure AfterEight will get mad about if he reads this, but it marked a new awareness for me about what musicals can be).

Yes, it's less obvious in Sondheim--for one thing he didn't have a history of plays with dead gay characters looming over the entire story--or later gay prominent characters. But I think it's a valid discussion.

Of course Williams's was kinda villified, especially in the 60s, by critics who said (along Albee, Inge to some extent, etc) that he was homosexualizing theatre (like that wsa something new), and writing straight characters he shouldn't know anything about who were really gay men. (And then contrary-wise claiming he should be honest, and if he did more out gay characters, Broadway would accept them--which I still kinda doubt). WHen he did start to write major gay characters, like in Small Craft Warnings in the early 70s--out gay critics complained that he was writing unhappy gay characters. He really couldn't win.

Sondheim has got a LOT less criticism about that--although particularly around his last birthday, I remember a few blog posts complaining that neither had he written major gay characters, he also hgadn't written major Jewish characters. I find the whole idea ridiculous (and again, while by the 70s gay characters were showing up more on Broadway--they still weren't really valid in a big, mainstream, Hal Prince budgeted Broadway Musical). I think both arguments are unfair, and miss the point entirely--but I do think it's still a fair discussion, and an interesting one to have.
*end ramble*

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 9/25/12 at 6:20pm

See the one with that cute guy in the photo!

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 9/25/12 at 6:41pm

But how can one compare with no photo of the guy who'll play Val in Orpheus?

[Scripps2]

Posted: 9/26/12 at 12:56pm

"See the one with that cute guy in the photo!"

You see what you miss when you postpone your European vacation.