Video: Remembering Liz Swados: How Four ROCKY HORROR Artists Are Carrying Her Legacy Forward
Watch the full conversation with Jennifer Ashley Tepper, Sam Pinkleton, Ani Taj, Kris Kukul, and Stephanie Hsu.
Ten years after her passing, the influence of visionary theatre artist Liz Swados continues to ripple across generations. In a new conversation with theatre historian Jennifer Ashley Tepper, four of Swados’ former students—now leading creatives on Broadway’s revival of The Rocky Horror Show—reflected on the lessons that shaped their artistry and still guide their work today.
Director Sam Pinkleton, choreographer Ani Taj, music supervisor Kris Kukul, and Stephanie Hsu (who plays Janet) each spoke to the singular way Swados approached theatre—not just as entertainment, but as a vital, living conversation with the world.
For Hsu, Swados fundamentally redefined what musical theatre could be. "It’s interesting to hear you say that Liz wrote about a lot of stuff that you would not necessarily consider to be in musical theater... [Liz] was my introduction to theater with music and she taught me that that was the necessity of theater," she explained. "Of course there’s things that are commercial, but if you have a voice you must use it to be in conversation with the world that you’re living in. That was her mission... always."
That ethos runs through Swados’ body of work, including her groundbreaking musical Runaways, which Pinkleton revisited during its Encores! production a decade ago.
"Getting to live inside of Runaways and kind of pull apart Runaways and dig into it and find new dimensions in it... it was so incredible because it was like ‘Oh, there’s tremendous meaning and gravity and poetry! And also it’s silly and fun!’ It wants the audience to have a good time," said Pinkleton. "There was a real lack of preciousness, even when she was dealing with things that, as you say, nobody would ever think to put in a musical... I don’t know anyone else who has done that."
That balance—between gravity and play, seriousness and spontaneity—was central to Swados’ process. For Taj, watching her create was a lesson in artistic courage. "Watching her way into making things was so kind of renegade... like, if you’re interested in this, dig into it and be fearless and push yourself," she added. "If you feel embarrassed or giddy doing it, follow that!"
For Kukul, the full scope of Swados’ impact only became clear over time.
“We were all very young at the time and starting on our careers," he said. "I wasn’t conscious of the scope of Liz and her effect. Which as you get older and you see that the people are still in your lives, it just becomes more and more apparent. And it started, when she passed away. There was this memorial that had the most astounding collection of people you’ve ever seen. There was of course [people] from our era, our generation, but then the people from 20, 30 years ago, everyone. I remember that day feeling like the scope of the whole thing in a way that I had never really understood. And it’s still true.”
That sense of community—spanning decades, disciplines, and artistic paths—may be Swados’ most enduring legacy. Her students didn’t just learn from her; they became part of a larger creative lineage, one that continues to evolve and expand.
Now, as Pinkleton, Hsu, Kukul, and Taj bring their talents to The Rocky Horror Show on Broadway, traces of Swados’ influence can be felt in the production’s boldness, its irreverence, and its willingness to push boundaries. Watch as they all discuss more in this video.
