Is Miss Saigon Racist?

[doremi2]

Posted: 7/11/05 at 3:46pm

When I first saw the musical, I thought the music was great, but I didn't like how Vietnamese people were portrayed. Every Vietnamese person in that show is portrayed as evil and bad, except Kim, and she kills herself at the end. I know a lot of Vietnamese-American adults and they refuse to see the show, and I can understand why. Does anyone else feel this way?

[Broadway_Bound_Star]

Posted: 7/11/05 at 3:50pm

Well, i'm Asian and I don't find it offensive or racist, its just through soeones story and how the writer wanted to portray the people, but how would you feel if the Vietnamiese were played as good people, and the americans played evil? wouldn't that rise some eyebrows????

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 7/11/05 at 3:51pm

My Asian then-housemate told me he glazed over and threw his hands up in frustration once the lyric "Why must our race be obsessed with rice?" was uttered.

But you know how sensitive those Asians can be about racism!

[doremi2]

Posted: 7/11/05 at 3:54pm

Yeah basically I felt that they COULDNT portray the americans as bad because that would cause a lot of controversy. I felt like it was really easy to portray the Vietnamese as bad just because of the propaganda during the war. But of course, that was a very controversial war and where everyone stands on it is pretty one-sided.

[JohnPopa]

Posted: 7/11/05 at 4:01pm

What Vietmanese characters were portrayed 'bad?' Thuy, sure, but he joined a pinko regime. The Engineer's half French so that explains why he's evil.

[apdarcey]

Posted: 7/11/05 at 4:09pm

ok. chris is portrayed as a confused loser. ellen is selfish. thuy is evil, but he's the leader of the communist regime in vietnam, and he tries to rape and kill kim and tam. and the rice line is uttered by the engineer, who a) is half french, and b) doesn't know anything about the vietnamese culture. whoever thinks that this is a racist show only sees the version they want, and don't look at the full understanding of the piece of theatre.

[doremi2]

Posted: 7/11/05 at 4:14pm

Yeah that's true. I tried seeing it from the perspective of it being racist, and what I saw was that, ultimately, the end shows the US as a kind of saving grace for all the poor Vietnamese who were also victims of years of violence, not just from the Communists, but from the chemicals and bombs that came from the US (totally destroying the landscape and killing innocent civilians too).

On the other hand, I can see how each of the characters blurs the lines between the "good" and "bad." Just a little confused, but trying to be objective!

[PleaseChangeMe]

Posted: 7/11/05 at 4:14pm

<"Why must our race be obsessed with rice?">

That doesn't sound like a very good lyric anyway.

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 7/11/05 at 4:15pm

Well Kim works in a bar of Vietmanese hookers, and they sing a lovely song called "Movie in My Mind" unless you think its evil that they want to get out of Vietnam and become stroller moms at the Glendale Galleria.

No, I don't think MISS SAIGON is racist. It's about war and about what people do to survive.

It will only be racist when high schools start doing it with all white casts in yellow make up

[doremi2]

Posted: 7/11/05 at 4:21pm

Well personally, I also feel that the Vietnamese culture was kind of...muddled (for lack of a bettr word). i mean, despite the war and everything, there is a beautiful culture and it's still a beautiful country (despite the war's damages), and the whole musical portrayed how all the Vietnamese wanted to leave. I mean, of course many wanted to leave because of the Communists, but they still had a great love for their country which doesnt really come through. Not to mention completely butchering the language in songs...haha.

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 7/11/05 at 4:23pm

Doremi -- Vietnam's beauty is besides the point. The show is about war. Parts of Paris are stunning, but its not Les Miserables fault that they aren't depicted...

[JohnPopa]

Posted: 7/11/05 at 4:30pm

It doesn't even remotely address all of Vietman nor is that remotely relevant to the story being told. It's about a very specific group of people who aren't implied to be representative of an entire culture or nation.

[NCGuy]

Posted: 7/11/05 at 4:32pm

Re: “the end shows the US as a kind of saving grace for all the poor Vietnamese”

Doremi, Kim finally gets her son to Chris, but I don’t think it’s a happy ending. The Americans don’t save Kim, and the number immediately preceding that scene is a ten-minute indictment of “American Values.”

I don’t think the show comes across as racist (tasteless in parts, but not racist). The Americans are just as bad as the Vietnamese (Chris is an incredibly weak “hero”); the ONLY admirable character is Kim (maybe John, but it’s hard for me to get past that horrifying “Bui-Doi” number to appreciate his character in any way).

Posted: 7/11/05 at 5:01pm

"But you know how sensitive those Asians can be about racism!"
I do not know if this was meant to be a joke or not, but it was not funny to me. How dare you automatically group all Asians together and assume that they are all touchy about racism.

"It will only be racist when high schools start doing it with all white casts in yellow make up"
I agree. I would love to do Miss Saigon because Kim is my dream role. We did the King and I at my high school when I was in middle school, and it was awkward because there were two Asians in the entire cast... my brother and sister.

I do not find Miss Saigon racist. It shows the story of two young people falling in love during a war. Never once did I view it as racism. I find that FindingNamo was more offensive to me than anything in this Broadway show.

[Mr Roxy]

Posted: 7/11/05 at 7:06pm

Racist & racism has lost any meaning with leaders like the Rev AL using it for the slightest reason. My answer, therefore , is why not.

[bella cantato]

Posted: 7/11/05 at 7:25pm

Reading M. Butterfly by David Henry Hwang certainly put a different spin on the Madame Butterfly / Miss Saigon plotline for me.

[nystateomind04]

Posted: 7/11/05 at 7:31pm

If anything, the show portrays Americans in a poor (if well deserved) light. The problem isn't the way that either race is protrayed, so much as the fact that the lyrics make the political spin so obvious and uneffecting, as far as I'm concerned. Every once in a while I listen to the recording to try to see if my opinion of it may have changed and I still flinch when I hear some of the unbearable lyrics ("Christ, I am an American! How can I fail to do good?")
Updated On: 7/11/05 at 07:31 PM

[gymman]

Posted: 7/11/05 at 7:32pm

What a wonderful point? The Hwang play certainly deconstructs the racist asumptions of the opera and the musical. What I found especially hateful about MS was that itwas really all about the Americans, their anguish and suffering, using the Vietnamese as a jumping off point for an exploration of THAT.Of course the title character suffers, but only (as Hwang's play points out) because of the way she is conceived of in terms of the West.

[keggss23]

Posted: 7/11/05 at 7:42pm

I don't think this show portrays Americans or Vietnamese as "bad". It shows specific CHARACTERS as "bad". The show is telling the story of a group of specific, fictional people - not an entire country or race of people.

Updated On: 7/11/05 at 07:42 PM

[gymman]

Posted: 7/11/05 at 7:49pm

"Racism" does not require portraying a whole people... That's why, for example, blackface is racist
That's also why a white Dreamgirls is racist.
It's an attitude towards what is being portrayed.

This in inescapable even in great works like Merchant of Venice, which is anti-semitic, no matter how we try to explain it away (and many have tried!)
Updated On: 7/11/05 at 07:49 PM

[Glindafan]

Posted: 7/11/05 at 8:00pm

Miss Saigon evoked stong, emotional reactions in me when I saw it for the first time eight years ago. I walked out before the end of the first act because I thought it trivialized what was done for and to the Vietnamese during the war. I was there, so maybe my read is different than most people.

I saw it again this year, against my better judgement, and had a completely different reaction. I thought the actors were very talented, the staging was stunning and the music was so tediously repititious, I felt like my brain was being bludgeoned into unconsciousness. I think because there is no actual dialogue and everything is sung in no particular key or cadence - it just got to me. Didn't sense racism in either show. Just insensitivity and ennui

[gymman]

Posted: 7/11/05 at 8:02pm

I think your point about trivializing is crucial here--for me, that's what leads to the concept of racism in the piece (and let's face it, in the source material as well.)

[Glindafan]

Posted: 7/11/05 at 8:45pm

One thing I've learned in the last 25 years is that racism is in the eye of the beholder. It is the message RECEIVED, not necessarily the message SENT. Point being - I've got acquaintences who think there are acceptable contexts for using the N-word and all the demeaning slang expressions for Asians and Arabs and every other race or religion you can name. Since racism wasn't their INTENT, they don't see themselves as racists. You're right that the message I received from Miss Saigon was the precursor to racism - - offensive enough for me to not even hear the music, or evaluate the acting.

[sanda]

Posted: 7/11/05 at 9:29pm

I am Asian. I love Miss Saigon but only when I watched it. When I listened to the recording, I did not like it very much though I am a huge B&S fan.

Based on my observation, a lot of Asian people don't like Miss Saigon, especially Asian men. It maybe hard to understand for Western people. But a lot of my friends complained that the tone of the superority of western culture made them uncomfortable and feel offensive, even though the theme is noble.
Updated On: 7/11/05 at 09:29 PM

[Aigoo]

Posted: 7/11/05 at 9:31pm

Erm. It's Asian. Learn to spell your race right.