Question on Books of musicals

[Alex Kulak2]

Posted: 11/1/16 at 3:51pm

When writing a musical, how is the book written in relation to the songs? Is the entire book written as a straight play first, and then portions of dialogue are cut out for songs, or is the script written as a patchwork, where the dialogue stops and [insert song here] is put in place?

Updated On: 11/1/16 at 03:51 PM

[neonlightsxo]

Posted: 11/1/16 at 4:29pm

I can't speak for all librettists, but I've never heard of a musical being "written as a straight play first" and then cutting out dialogue, unless it's an adaptation. But even then you start completely over. That shows no knowledge of the structure of musicals...

[dramamama611]

Posted: 11/1/16 at 4:33pm

There is no one way this gets done. at all.

 

That being given said, I've never heard of what you've described either.

[DCS]

Posted: 11/1/16 at 4:54pm

It really depends on the creative team working on the show.  I have written the libretto for 3 different musicals. In two of the instances, I wrote the full libretto as if it was a straight play knowing full well that the emotional high and low points would likely be removed and replaced with songs (never easy to see happen when you work so hard on those scenes, but it is part of the process) and on the third show, much of the score had already been written by the time I joined the project so my task was to build the libretto around the existing songs.  In the first 2 cases, having written the show out as a play first was very useful to the songwriters as they were then able to use the emotions expressed to drive the feel of the songs and they often use the dialog I have written as a blueprint for their lyrics.  As I said, it all depends on the collaborators involved on the project.

[Daddy Warbucks]

Posted: 11/1/16 at 4:57pm

This sounds similar to the question of, when writing a song, do you write the lyrics first or the music first, and the answer here is probably the same -- it depends on the writer.  I would imagine a writer like Aaron Sorkin might write a ton of dialogue first, as that is his strength.  I know others who like to start with the basic theme, first trying to understand in about a paragraph, what the story is going to be about.  Then write a longer synopsis of 2 or 3 pages.  Then they might go to a story board and start placing a card on the board for each scene or major moment in the story.  I know others who like to write and write and write about the character first before anything else.  My preference in writing is to get your story structure in place with a story board before you start writing music.  Otherwise you write music and you don't even know what you're writing about, or you end up having to rewrite it when you realize your story isn't working.

Alex Kulak2, are you an aspiring writer?  If so, I would suggest reading all the well known books on the art of writing -- most of the best ones are focused on screenwriting, but that is ok.  Once you do that, you'll understand why so many "books" to musicals are awful and completely ignore what mankind has learned from thousands of years of great story telling.  Although the snobs in the writing world talk down on this one, a good introduction is Save the Cat by Blake Snyder.  Once you read that, there are books like Aristotle's Poetics and Hero of a Thousand Faces by Campbell that are like scripture to the great story tellers.

[HogansHero]

Posted: 11/1/16 at 5:12pm

What came first: the chicken or the egg?

There is only one rule and it is that there are no rules. 

[Mr. Nowack]

Posted: 11/1/16 at 5:13pm

neonlightsxo there are definitely cases of the book being written in full and then music added later. SHE LOVES ME and A LITTLE NIGHT MUSIC (both fairly faithful adaptations mind you) took this approach.

[Anthony Fremont]

Posted: 11/1/16 at 6:38pm

The contract gets written first.

[HogansHero]

Posted: 11/1/16 at 7:30pm

Anthony Fremont said: "The contract gets written first."

would that that were so

[Younger Brother]

Posted: 11/1/16 at 8:41pm

Pretty sure I read somewhere that Harvey Fierstein wrote La Cage Aux Folles in the way the OP describes. He'd write a scene a week then meet with the rest of the team and they'd musicalize it.

[Ado Annie D'Ysquith]

Posted: 11/2/16 at 12:03pm

Speaking as a writer, my process is to first draft a treatment of the book (like a detailed plot summary). Figure out my story, my characters, etc.

Then I begin lyrics, starting with those I feel most comfortable writing and then moving to the more difficult ones...and here's where my process gets blurred a bit. I might start fashioning the book as I go along (providing I have an idea of how songs will go), or write all the songs and then do the book.

Am I making any sense? Because it makes sense in my head, but that doesn't say much!

[nasty_khakis]

Posted: 11/2/16 at 12:11pm

Sondheim has said he often will ask his collaborator to write a full scene or monologue based on what the character wants, needs, dreams, etc so he can turn it into a better song. The librettist knows this monologue isn't going into the show, but it can turn into a wonderful song like the opening number from "Sunday in the Park with George." 

Sondheim has also said if you just tell him "go write a song where she's sad in a bar" he can't do it. He needs you to say "go write about a women in a red dress sitting in a bar drinking a grasshopper" and he can.

[darquegk]

Posted: 11/2/16 at 1:36pm

I tend not to write original pieces as much as reimaginings/adaptations of public domain works. (My current song cycle about mental health, the autism spectrum, and the diversity of minds in the 21st century notwithstanding.) Here are the work processes for the two shows I worked on this year:

 

PRISONER OF ZENDA: I was writing book and lyrics, so I revisited the source material, taking copious notes- story outline, defining character traits, quotes I wanted to use or reference. I then wrote a five-page outline, building the show structure, locations, act break and places I knew we would need a song. I then went through, writing scene by scene from top to bottom, drafting the songs as I came to them, removing song cues that were no longer necessary, then adding new songs where I deemed fit. Day by day I sent new sides to the composer, who worked with me on what works and what doesn't, making changes alongside me as he composes. In this particular case, however, if the project has a leader, it's me; the composer is writing to what I create, as much as writing WITH me.

 

CABINET OF DOCTOR CALIGARI: This is a somewhat different situation, as I am still librettist, but am sharing composition and some lyric duties with a co-composer. In this case, I have drafted a "working draft" libretto, with potential song cues indicated, along with a "writer's note" to both him and myself describing what I feel this moment needs, sometimes including a dummy lyric as a placeholder if it's a musical sequence coming in and out of dialogue to a specific end. Then, he or I will write a lyric, and he or I will write music, depending on the specifics of the scene and how it speaks to us.

[thommg]

Posted: 11/2/16 at 1:40pm

I once had a copy of a Neil Simon script, the first version of They're Playing Our Song, entitled "Two Character Musical". It was the book of the show with indications of where the songs would go and what they might be about. He didn't do any lyrics, though, and I have no idea if Hamlisch & Bayer Sager had been hired for the music at this point. So, I imagine that is also a way to write a musical.

[Fosse76]

Posted: 11/2/16 at 1:46pm

HogansHero said: "What came first: the chicken or the egg?

There is only one rule and it is that there are no rules. "

 

Scientifically-speaking, we know which came first. It's the same as the tree falling in the forest question "does it make a sound if no one is there to hear it?" These are not unanswered questions.I hate when scientific certainties are used as philosophical quandaries.

 

[BroadwayBilly]

Posted: 11/2/16 at 6:08pm

There is a term called a "fat book" which means the book writer writes the script and places the songs with a brief description of the content of the song, an "I Want" song, a moving the story forward song,  or an emotion takes over song  in a ballad.  Some composers and lyricists, even big names, prefer this as the heavy story lifting is done, they have road maps for the song content, that triggers a song style and off they go. Other composers and lyricists prefer to construct hand-in-hand with the book writer.

But, like Hogan says, the first rule of Fight Club is that there are no rules.