E. L. Doctorow Died
E. L. Doctorow Died
#1E. L. Doctorow Died
Posted: 7/21/15 at 9:47pm
I think he still holds the record for the highest exploitation royalty percentage in the history of American theatre.
ggersten
Broadway Legend Joined: 5/11/06
#2E. L. Doctorow Died
Posted: 7/21/15 at 10:29pm
"I think he still holds the record for the highest exploitation royalty percentage in the history of American theatre. "
But, did he ever receive any money from Livent/Drabinsky?
#3E. L. Doctorow Died
Posted: 7/21/15 at 11:02pm
I think at that time they were paying everyone, and I think if they stopped paying him, he would have pulled the rights. (Unlike the typical situation, all of the contracts were directly with Livent.) As I recall, the advance he got was gargantuan, and he got not only an obscene % of the gross (as I recall, 9%), but also a percentage on the net. (I think it is more likely he was cheated on that.) But with Garth, who knows? I would bet that he was cheated in some way. (If you can cheat Mike Ovitz right under his nose, you can cheat anyone.)
#4E. L. Doctorow Died
Posted: 7/21/15 at 11:58pm
At any rate, RAGTIME was a truly great book. The admirable, blown-up musical was inescapably a pale shadow of it. He couldn't have earned enough on it. (and I love that score!)
Updated On: 7/21/15 at 11:58 PM#5E. L. Doctorow Died
Posted: 7/22/15 at 12:17am
I agree about the book (a monumental, important masterpiece) and also the book of the musical (McNally at his laziest and worst, at least until this year). I am very fond of a good part of the score though I think it suffers under its own weight toward the end). But that opening number and a number of the songs are just great.
#6E. L. Doctorow Died
Posted: 7/22/15 at 1:53am
"At any rate, RAGTIME was a truly great book. The admirable, blown-up musical was inescapably a pale shadow of it. He couldn't have earned enough on it. (and I love that score!)"
I'm in absolute, 100% agreement on that. I love the musical with a deep passion, but the book sits pretty high on my list of "Quick! You have to be in a bunker for the next 10 years! Grab some books!" books.
His contributions to literature will be dearly missed.
FishermanBob
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/9/12
#7E. L. Doctorow Died
Posted: 7/22/15 at 2:16am
"I think he still holds the record for the highest exploitation royalty percentage in the history of American theatre."
What a warm, tender thought on the day of his passing. You are a real piece of work.
R.I.P. E.L.
#8E. L. Doctorow Died
Posted: 7/22/15 at 6:00am
Really Hogan, that was rather tasteless.
R.I.P.
Ragtime the novel is one of my faves and the movie, which was admittedly weak, was still very influential for me.
The musical has one of the greatest scores I've ever heard. Even if the show is less than the sum of its parts it still remains an electrifying and moving piece of musical theater.
....but the world goes 'round
Updated On: 7/22/15 at 06:00 AM
#9E. L. Doctorow Died
Posted: 7/22/15 at 8:03am
"The era of ragtime had run out, as if history were no more than a tune on a player piano."
#10E. L. Doctorow Died
Posted: 7/22/15 at 9:33am
"I think he still holds the record for the highest exploitation royalty percentage in the history of American theatre. "
He was a great writer and a great man. You are an asshole to start a thread like this.
#11E. L. Doctorow Died
Posted: 7/22/15 at 10:06am
If you had any respect, you would have started your post by saying the he won the National Book Award for World's Fair; the National Book Critics Circle Award three times: for Ragtime, for The March and for Billy Bathgate; the PEN/Faulkner Award twice: for Billy Bathgate and for The March; the PEN/Saul Bellow Award for Achievement in American Fiction, and the Library of Congress Prize for American Fiction.
#12E. L. Doctorow Died
Posted: 7/22/15 at 11:14am
If I did not respect the man, I would not have posted anything about him. I did not think a general list of his accomplishments was necessary here; I was not writing an obit for the NYTimes. This being a theatre message board, what seemed appropriate was to focus on his theatrical achievement, which is what I did. I cannot fathom how that can be viewed as tasteless.
#13E. L. Doctorow Died
Posted: 7/22/15 at 11:24am
"If I did not respect the man, I would not have posted anything about him. I did not think a general list of his accomplishments was necessary here; I was not writing an obit for the NYTimes. This being a theatre message board, what seemed appropriate was to focus on his theatrical achievement, which is what I did. I cannot fathom how that can be viewed as tasteless. "
Really? You can't see how your opening post is disrespectful?
I thought you were smarter than that.
....but the world goes 'round
#14E. L. Doctorow Died
Posted: 7/22/15 at 11:40am
No I do not. How do you find it disrespectful? Are a person's accomplishments limited to their literary accomplishments when they are a writer? Doctorow did not get a writing credit for the musical and, so far as I know, the Ragtime musical is his only significant brush with the theatre.
#15E. L. Doctorow Died
Posted: 7/22/15 at 11:49am
The Public Theater, 1978.
Mike Nichols directed Christopher Plummer and Josef Summer.
#16E. L. Doctorow Died
Posted: 7/22/15 at 11:52am
Oh wait then, it could be that your sentence wasn't clear to me.
I got the impression that you were commenting on the fact that he got an insanely high percentage of the royalties.
Did you mean the opposite? As in he was exploited by not receiving a fair percentage of the royalties?
....but the world goes 'round
#17E. L. Doctorow Died
Posted: 7/22/15 at 12:08pm
neither. My use of the word "exploitation" was simply referring to the type of agreement he entered into, and under which he was compensated. Exploitation rights meaning the right to exploit the source material (and the title), the meaning of "exploit" being "to make full use of and derive benefit from" without any negative implication. I intended to suggest that he got an impressively high percentage (i.e., that he really made Garth pay dearly for the right to use the well-known and iconic property). The price was, I would say, a measure of the importance of ELD's book to the viability of the show. (And I'd also note that McNally made extensive and direct use of that book in concocting the book of the musical.
#18E. L. Doctorow Died
Posted: 7/22/15 at 2:49pm
Heck of a writer, and while I think "Ragtime" was almost impossible to translate faithfully in spirit for a musical, I appreciated the effort. For Audra MacDonald alone...
"when I’m on stage I see the abyss and have to overcome it by telling myself it’s only a play." - Helen Mirren
FishermanBob
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/9/12
#19E. L. Doctorow Died
Posted: 7/22/15 at 5:53pm
"Exploitation rights meaning the right to exploit the source material (and the title), the meaning of "exploit" being "to make full use of and derive benefit from" without any negative implication. "
"As I recall, the advance he got was gargantuan, and he got not only an obscene % of the gross (as I recall, 9%), but also a percentage on the net."
The more commonly used and understood definition of exploit is: "to use selfishly for one's own ends" also "to use (someone or something) in a way that helps you unfairly". Your characterization of his advance as obscene would seem to make your comment about using the word "exploit" with no negative implication intended seem disingenuous at best.
Look, I know your usual technique in dealing with anyone who disagrees with you is to suffocate them with words but it's not working here. Perhaps stating that you "understand how the comment could be viewed negatively but that's not what you meant" might have allowed some room to believe you but saying "I cannot fathom how that can be viewed as tasteless." makes you either a very poor BS artist or the world's biggest tool.
#20E. L. Doctorow Died
Posted: 7/22/15 at 6:29pm
Fisherman,
First, I did not use the word "obscene" in the same post as "exploit" and in any event I intended it as awe-worthy, not disparaging. Second, I disagree with the way you order the meanings of "exploit," which vary from my dictionary and probably yours. But more importantly, in show business, the term "exploitation rights" is commonly understood without negative connotation in the way I used it. Third, I wish I had simply said something like "the highest percentage paid for the right to use the source material" because it would have avoided changing the important subject of this thread into a sidebar. Finally, I think it should be clear I was not being disingenuous and I am not trying to suffocate anyone. What I intended was misunderstood by some, but not by me. I'm sorry I used a word that caused some to think I was saying anything negative or tasteless, because I was not. I have literally nothing to say about ELD that is negative, and a lot to say that it very positive (and I have, but you seem to overlook that). I admire his accomplishments greatly.
#21E. L. Doctorow Died
Posted: 7/22/15 at 6:52pm
Then why didn't you say something respectful? A great man died. Your post reduced his life to numbers. And you used words that you knew had derogatory connotations.
Don't defend yourself. Apologize.
And not to us--but to the memory of a writer you now CLAIM to admire.
#22E. L. Doctorow Died
Posted: 7/22/15 at 7:04pm
PalJoey, I have done both already in this very thread.
#23E. L. Doctorow Died
Posted: 7/22/15 at 11:12pm
I hope that when you go to that Great Calculator in the Sky, the first words people use to describe you are warmer than "exploitation percentage."
#24E. L. Doctorow Died
Posted: 7/23/15 at 1:16am
...and when you get there I hope folks don't say, "Poor guy, spent his life beating a dead horse."
