In the Film Adaptation in Your Mind. . .

[Showface]

Posted: 9/30/14 at 8:49pm

So, when reading threads on dreamcasting musical based films, there are always the great and wonderful posts that deal with how that person would envision the film. I always enjoy reading these posts because a lot of them end up being really creative and fun.

Some examples I can think of:

Some ideas about the new Gypsy movie (Cheering audience during Roses Turn, Cutting Little Lamb, etc.)

Or some ideas about the (hopeful/rumored/not going anywhere) Follies movie (wonderful idea's on the ghosts, cinematography, etc.)

Or even in the early pages on the Into the Woods Movie thread.

So, basically, the purpose of this thread is to just share some of these creative and wonderful ideas! What do you think should be cut from (whatever musical you "choose to adapt")? What would you imagine the cinematography to be like? What would you change? Who would you cast?

Updated On: 9/30/14 at 08:49 PM

[GoSmileLaughCryClap]

Posted: 9/30/14 at 9:00pm

Intertwine the score to Camelot with a personal look at the Kennedy's during JFK's presidency.

[Showface]

Posted: 9/30/14 at 9:04pm

Interesting...

Also..if there is already another thread like this, please let me know! I would hate to start a thread that is basically the same as another thread...

[Mr. Nowack]

Posted: 9/30/14 at 9:43pm

I love this idea. I actually think about such things all the time, so I'll have to think about it and report one back later!

[Musical Master]

Posted: 9/30/14 at 11:18pm

The FOLLIES film I have in mind are these:

1. The ghosts are written to be the way that Harold Prince and Michael Bennett imagined them in the original stage production in 1971, where they can be seen and at other times they can't. In this, it would be great if everyone (except for Sally, Ben, Buddy and Phyllis) could feel their presence but to never look at them directly only if needed.

2. Cut "Don't Look at Me", a nice simple scene would do perfectly in the dilapidated lobby of the theater where Sally and Ben reunite.

3. Have the main four have some likeability in the film version. This could prove to be the BIGGEST change from stage to screen, James Goldman tried in his original book, but in the end he done goofed when it came to these characters.

4. The build-up to Loveland to be a subtle thing, where the theater slowly cracks and becomes brighter due to the full moon being out that night.

5. Three new characters, An American-English Duke with his wife, and a character who is referenced (then shown at the end) by the oldest veterans of the Follies named: The Magnificent Girl. The Duke was the only male member of the Follies who is still alive in 1971 and he sings "Can That Boy Foxtrot" explaining a hidden side that he has hidden from everyone who knew him when he was a Follies performer (except for his lovely wife who is okay with it). The Magnificent Girl was known as "The greatest Weissman Girl of all-time" who had a beautiful voice but who didn't make it to the reunion, but change 7 could explain more about her.

6. Extend "Live, Laugh, Love". Ben finishes the number well and suddenly, a younger Roscoe appears and sings of "the grand beauty" which turns out to be Sally in a beautiful gown and slowly descends the grand stairs with a beautiful orchestra swelling, but this is what causes Ben to snap and we then begin the breakdown we all know and love.

7. The ending extends for one final song. After when the young ghosts sing their part, it doesn't stop; out of the fading darkness, an old woman appears to sing her song that starts to become more surreal as she becomes young again and it descends into a presentation of the all the ghost girls for a final appearance until the the lit up "Follies" fades away and the girl fades as well and the lights turn off at the final note, only showing a shadow of her figure and the film dissolves and ends. (If any who are wondering, yes this is inspired by the ending of the film THE ZIEGFELD FOLLIES which is a live action FANTASIA).

What do you think?

[mjohnson2]

Posted: 9/30/14 at 11:24pm

Use the freaking Gower Champion choreography and an appropriately aged Dolly for a remake of HELLO, DOLLY! (The movie isn't terrible as Barbra can sing quite well and is a good comedienne, but she is just wrong for the role and Gene Kelly's choreography is dazzling but lacks the charm of Gower's) it's just that those two things are really crucial to the show on stage and there really hasn't been a good production of the show without those two things (did anybody see the Ford's Theatre production of this? Yuck!) and DOLLY could make an amazing movie.

[Jeffrey Karasarides]

Posted: 9/30/14 at 11:32pm

Here are some of my ideas for stage-to-screen transfers I'd like to see:
*Beautiful
Directed By Ron Howard
Starring Jessie Mueller as Carole King, with John Cusack as Don Kirshner, and Diane Lane as Genie Klein
*Miss Saigon
Directed By Steven Spielberg
Starring Eva Noblezada as Kim, and Ken Watanabe as The Engineer
*Next to Normal
Directed By Spike Jonze
Starring Anne Hathaway and Joseph Gordon-Levitt as Diana & Dan Goodman
*Ragtime
Directed By Martin Scorsese
*Spring Awakening
Directed By Marc Webb
*Wicked
Directed By Francis Lawrence



Updated On: 10/2/14 at 11:32 PM

[mjohnson2]

Posted: 9/30/14 at 11:38pm

A RAGTIME film by Scorsese would be horrible. Instead of telling us about the SS beating Sarah to death, he would actually give us a closeup of her based in head. shudders

[SantiagoE]

Posted: 9/30/14 at 11:45pm

I have always envisioned a Threepenny Opera film with puppets. I’d also add some expressionist elements to the cinematography and production design (like the cover on the 1976 cast recording with Raul Julia), very dark in tone but without losing its humor. It would be more faithful to the show than the Pabst film. It would also have some surreal elements to it.

Until now I haven’t thought of any song I would cut (except, perhaps, Call from the Grave), though I do have a hard time coming up with a way to direct numbers like Ballad of Sexual Obsession and Solomon Song.

The film would be divided in three acts (as the play) and the ballad singer would introduce each act, he also would open the film with the introduction (“You are about to see an opera for beggars..”) and then the overture would play over a montage of the beggars beating Filch, then cut to the fair and have the ballad singer (I’ve always pictured him like Joel Grey in Cabaret, this little, evil-looking man with heavy make-up) sing Mack the Knife. I would have Polly sing Pirate Jenny at the wedding instead of Jenny singing it, as it is more commonly played today. I’ve always imagined the second finale to take place in a tattered temple and the song itself be like a twisted mass, in which Macheath and Mrs. Peachum would preach (the verses) and the beggars, thieves and prostitutes would respond with the angry chorus, this would be one of the surreal scenes.

I would also love it if it were in German, though some come close I don’t think any English translation beats Brecht’s original text.

These are just some ideas I’ve had.

[mjohnson2]

Posted: 9/30/14 at 11:55pm

That sounds interesting, SantiagoE. I wonder if David Lynch or Terry Gilliam could direct.

[SantiagoE]

Posted: 9/30/14 at 11:58pm

I've always thought of Lynch as the perfect director for this. I also would have loved to see what Kubrick could have done with the material.

[mjohnson2]

Posted: 10/1/14 at 12:01am

The problem with that concept is that it would have to work perfectly or else it would be terrible

[SantiagoE]

Posted: 10/1/14 at 12:06am

It is a risky concept since it could go both ways, but still that's how I've always envisioned it.

[henrikegerman]

Posted: 10/1/14 at 9:42am

"City of Angels" strikes me as suiting the medium of film extraordinarily well, and for quite obvious reasons, starting with the strong art directorial contrast between the b&w noir of the Stone film within the film world and the color and sunny glare of Stine's Hollywood, and the opportunity for homage to two very different classic movie genres. It's a great show and it could make a great movie.

Updated On: 10/1/14 at 09:42 AM

[SweeneyLovett]

Posted: 10/1/14 at 4:47pm

For Gypsy, I'd have "Some People" take place as Rose follows her father all over the house and finally rushing up the stairs just in time for "goodbye to blueberry pie..." and then she starts packing up stuff, getting the kids, and heading off in their car. I'd want her to belt the last note from the car window as she hauls ass down the road and the camera soars up into the sky.

I'd cut "Mr. Goldstone."

I'd make "You Gotta Get A Gimmick" a montage where Louise watches from the wings as each stripper does their specialty to an audience of drooling men. I've always felt that number just didn't work on film as well as it could have.

Louise's "Let Me Entertain You" should be a montage featuring bits of Rose watching her from the wings and seething and a few clips of Gypsy signing autographs as Rose watches behind her, feeling left out.

"Rose's Turn" would involve Rose hallucinating that there's a huge crowd in the theatre watching her. In the first part of the song, maybe she actually goes out into the crowd and sits on a few guys' laps or something. During the "for me"s, I imagine the flash bulbs in the Rose sign start exploding and shattering everywhere. After she finishes, the audience leaps to their feet and throw roses at her. The sounds begins to distort and reverb until you can only hear one person clapping. Rose turns and looks into the wings to find Louise there, clapping. She turns back out to the crowd and sees that the entire theatre is empty.

Don't steal my ideas, Babs. Aw, Hell! Go ahead. I'd like to see this film done right for once.

[Showface]

Posted: 10/1/14 at 8:34pm

Wonderful ideas! SweeneyLovett, I think we-re on the same page about this Gypsy movie!

MusicalMster, very interesting ideas about the Follies film! Quick question about your Loveland: Many on this board seem to think that it should look like a lush MGM film. . . it seems to me you think otherwise...am I right in thinking this?

Updated On: 11/29/14 at 08:34 PM

[Showface]

Posted: 10/1/14 at 8:47pm

I think I would also like the Gypsy film to build a little more on Rose's past. There is the whole thing about her mother leaving her, and it is addressed a couple of times and it is shoved aside. I think it would be interesting to see just a little more of that. Maybe in Rose's dreams/nightmares about her past. I think that would make the "mama"'s in Roses Turn more effective. Also, speaking of those "mama"'s, I would love it if as she sings those, and the "audience" is still there, and it is almost as if she forgot the lyrics to her song. Sort of like "Live, Laugh, Love."


Now, I know the film is coming out this Christmas and whatever, and I know it will be great! But, in "my film" before I read the script and stuff, I had it in my mind visually looking like it would if it were made around/in the 90's, or early 2000's. I don't know, but I just really like that time for fantasy films. There were quite a few of them, and I just think they have this very story book look to them.

Also, in my mind I had it that the "Children Will Listen" scene would start as normal, then it would show a montage of the characters building back their lives as the Witch sings. There would sort of be like a shot of the Witch looking into the window as the Baker, Cinderella, LRR, and Jack are in the cottage and by the fire (or whatever), and then like in the corner, there would be the ghost of the Baker's Wife. Oh, also, it would be snowing. Don't judge there just my thoughts.

[g.d.e.l.g.i.]

Posted: 10/1/14 at 10:27pm

For Gypsy, I'd have "Some People" take place as Rose follows her father all over the house and finally rushing up the stairs just in time for "goodbye to blueberry pie..." and then she starts packing up stuff, getting the kids, and heading off in their car. I'd want her to belt the last note from the car window as she hauls ass down the road and the camera soars up into the sky.

Good idea, but I feel you could actually combine everything from "Goodbye to blueberry pie..." on with the traveling montage where she kidnaps the "newsboys" that follows that scene in the stage version. I see them arriving in L.A. on "...but not Rose!" You telescope the timeline a bit so that it moves the plot along and gets them to L.A. quicker.

I'd cut "Mr. Goldstone."

Sondheim would love you, and keeping the first line as dialogue is just the punchline he always had in mind.

I'd make "You Gotta Get A Gimmick" a montage where Louise watches from the wings as each stripper does their specialty to an audience of drooling men. I've always felt that number just didn't work on film as well as it could have.

Great instinct. I like it.

Louise's "Let Me Entertain You" should be a montage featuring bits of Rose watching her from the wings and seething and a few clips of Gypsy signing autographs as Rose watches behind her, feeling left out.

Rose is not just bitter and left out. Use Louise's banter as she becomes Gypsy that Arthur Laurents wrote for the later revivals, and also include Rose's realization that maybe Louise actually has some talent, though not what she calls talent. Desperation, turning to pride, turning to grudging admiration, turning to disappointment/feeling left out, turning to bitterness. Rose devolves as Louise evolves.

"Rose's Turn" would involve Rose hallucinating that there's a huge crowd in the theatre watching her. In the first part of the song, maybe she actually goes out into the crowd and sits on a few guys' laps or something. During the "for me"s, I imagine the flash bulbs in the Rose sign start exploding and shattering everywhere. After she finishes, the audience leaps to their feet and throw roses at her. The sounds begins to distort and reverb until you can only hear one person clapping. Rose turns and looks into the wings to find Louise there, clapping. She turns back out to the crowd and sees that the entire theatre is empty.

I rather favor John Ellis' concept for the scene, as a strip. He could explain it better than I.

[Musical Master]

Posted: 10/1/14 at 11:01pm

You are correct Showface, Loveland and (in my mind) the grand finale should have that lush 40's-50's MGM musical look.

Another idea I forgot is that when Sally descends the stairs, she falls... To reveal that she stabbed herself with a knife, causing Ben to have the great epic breakdown. "She said she'd kill herself I- I didn't think she meant it!"

[SweeneyLovett]

Posted: 10/2/14 at 12:16am

I like you, g.d.e.l.g.i. I love the idea of combining the two "Some People"s into one. I'm surprised that no film version ever showed Rose acquiring the newsboys.

What was John Ellis' concept for "Rose's Turn" that you mentioned?

[Showface]

Posted: 10/2/14 at 5:38pm

Wow, Musical Master! What an interesting idea gor the Follies film! I love the Sally part! Was that inspired bt something
Something similar happened in another film....I forgot what film it was though.

I would like to hear about this Roses Turn strip concept as well!

[Showface]

Posted: 10/2/14 at 5:41pm

What about a Merrily film? Will the backwards time jumps deem to much for modern day movie-goers? Will they put the film in chronologucal order instead? That is if a film ever gets made.

[g.d.e.l.g.i.]

Posted: 10/2/14 at 5:49pm

I love the idea of combining the two "Some People"s into one. I'm surprised that no film version ever showed Rose acquiring the newsboys.

Well, I always felt that was more interesting than watching Rose steamroll around the house and then steal the plaque. That's electric onstage (with the right performer), but static on film, as Bette and Roz both proved. The key is to do something different, and something that moves the plot along and doesn't leave the audience feeling they're in Pop's house a second longer than they should be.

What was John Ellis' concept for "Rose's Turn" that you mentioned?

Like I said in my post, John explains it much better than I do. I showed him the thread, so I'm pretty confident that either he will comment himself or I will wind up providing you with a blurb that he gave me about it. For those who recognize John's name, he wrote the in depth article about the "Stripper Christmas Tree" from the original production of Gypsy for the Sondheim Review.

You can read the "Stripper Christmas Tree" article here.

Updated On: 10/2/14 at 05:49 PM

[Musical Master]

Posted: 10/2/14 at 7:40pm

Thanks Showface, the scene where Sally falls off the stairs, revealing her surreal stab wound is inspired by the legendary scene in ZIEGFELD GIRL where Lana Turner's character is dying and trying to leave the theater; when she still hears the song she descends the stairs as if she was still in the Follies again, only that as soon as she is at the last stair, her illness gets the best of her and faints.

The idea in my head is like that but more gruesome.

[Showface]

Posted: 10/2/14 at 8:32pm

I think I found a way to improve on your idea, Musical Master:

Maybe when "Sally" descends, she's already dead. We, the audience wouldn't know it until she falls, but we would realize that she wasn't "all there". We would know this by her blank face and eyes. This could work because, it's Follies. It's not supposed to be realistic. And, I think this could prove to be pretty haunting.