Spider man closing.... enough said

ZiggyCringe
Leading Actor
joined:5/16/05
Spider man closing.... enough said
Posted: 11/19/13 at 12:59am
Kids, do your homework.

Read Glenn's book, "Song of Spiderman," which explains the entire financial agreement with Taymor, the producers, the cast, the overruns, etc.

Nobody (other than Alan Cumming) is ever going to make a cent off this show.
SweetLips
Broadway Star
joined:1/23/13
Spider man closing.... enough said
Posted: 11/19/13 at 01:02am
Maybe Spiderman and Cirque can team up now that it is heading to Vegas.
FishermanBob
Broadway Legend
joined:7/9/12
Spider man closing.... enough said
Posted: 11/19/13 at 01:22am
"Do you really think that you, a teen (if your avatar is you) should be posting about recoupment, of which you know nothing? Really, it's chutzpah or something else of the highest order :) Only on the Internet."

Right on BK! How dare anyone under 20 (if he even is) do some research and make a comment on a public discussion board. Next thing you know, these under 20 punks will think they can have a great idea for a product or service, start a company and sell it to a major corporation for millions, How dare they! Thanks for keeping them in line BK, for taking the initiative to make a demeaning characterization about someone you know nothing about and for doing it in such a supportive and non-condescending manner.
bwayto
Broadway Star
joined:12/5/11
Spider man closing.... enough said
Posted: 11/19/13 at 01:47am
@BK You're really quick to make snap judgments on the internet aren't you. Maybe your a little full of yourself to be telling others what business they have discussing anything.

FYI I'm a University Student (Business) and having taken a lot of accounting so far for my undergraduate, know quite a bit about how business bookkeeping works.

Also, I never claim to know exactly what Spidermans total earning and losses are. I just stated some facts and did some speculation. The fact that they've made over 200M in REVENUE (not groses) is not deniable. You can download the weekly earnings in a spreadsheet from BWW or the Broadway League.

Also, operating costs usually include any Royalties paid out to people to whom they are owed. (BK - this means that 1M includes whatever Taymore is owed, etc.) The 1M running cost is also an estimate, as quoted in the Glen Berger book (which I HAVE read) as well as in multiple news articles.

As 75M is the last reported reliable figure for the total cost, that's the figure I used. Once again, I didn't present my calculations as fact.

With so much estimating being done, obviously my numbers are probably not a real indication, but I did it just to get a sense of what they've made and what the best case scenario is for them.

Frankly, at least my comments were productive and relevant. All you've done is complain that you don't like my age (which FYI you don't know), and the fact that I have the nerve to post here.

FYI I also write for BWW - and if you DO want to actually learn something about me ,you can read my bio at this link: http://www.broadwayworld.com/author/Alan-Aronshtam

And if you want to talk Chutzpah - why don't we discuss how some anonymous faceless people like to personally attack others online when they don't know anything about that person or their qualifications. @FishermanBob, thanks for the support!

....Rant over. Let's get back on topic.

Alan Henry
Senior Editor, BWW Toronto
alan@broadwayworld.com









Follow me on twitter, here!
Like on Facebook, here!
Updated On: 11/19/13 at 01:47 AM
PlayItAgain
Broadway Legend
joined:11/8/11
Spider man closing.... enough said
Posted: 11/19/13 at 01:56am
holy **** I totally forgot how Alan Cumming and Evan Rachel Wood were suppose to be in this, talk about dodging a bullet.
bwayphreak234
Broadway Legend
joined:7/4/10
Spider man closing.... enough said
Posted: 11/19/13 at 02:05am
^ same for Natalie Mendoza! She got out early on. Good for her for getting out, but it's a shame because she was incredible.
"There’s nothing quite like the power and the passion of Broadway music. "
qolbinau
Broadway Legend
joined:6/29/08
Spider man closing.... enough said
Posted: 11/19/13 at 02:59am
I would like to further criticise BK's post. It's simple mathematics. There are only two numbers you can debate here: how much investment was made upfront and ongoing (I.e. Running costs) because the revenue is public. Besides these two numbers, which you may or may not have knowledge of, your (or anyone else's) experience does not add anything to the conversation. It's simple mathematics.

Siena Tonah
Swing
joined:11/19/13
Spider man closing.... enough said
Posted: 11/19/13 at 06:43am
A huge musical without a good book is not a good musical. I am should be sorry its going but really I could care less. King Kong god no its one of the worst ideas I have ever heard.
Siena Tonah
Swing
joined:11/19/13
Spider man closing.... enough said
Posted: 11/19/13 at 06:43am
A huge musical without a good book is not a good musical. I am should be sorry its going but really I could care less. King Kong god no its one of the worst ideas I have ever heard.
TimesSquareRegular
Broadway Legend
joined:12/16/04
Spider man closing.... enough said
Posted: 11/19/13 at 08:41am
So the producers say it's going to open sometime in 2015 in Las Vegas, huh?

In July an Italian restaurant across the street from me "closed for renovations - will re-open in the fall" ....... after 4 months the "for rent" sign appeared.

Don't hold your breath for LV ....
2014 Intimacy (1/18), Bronx Bombers (2/05), Kung-Fu (2/09), Matilda (2/12), The Velocity Of Autumn (4/18), Easter Bonnet Competition (4/22), Just Jim Dale (5/16), Behind The Magic - Motown (5/22), Just Jim Dale (5/29), The Book Of Mormon (6/04), Holler If Ya Hear Me (7/03), Indian Ink (9/04). Stalking The Bogeyman (9/13), If/Then (9/14)
South Fl Marc
Broadway Legend
joined:6/23/04
Spider man closing.... enough said
Posted: 11/19/13 at 09:54am
"A huge musical without a good book is not a good musical."

The book was a masterpiece compared to the truly awful score. I would rather listen to Philip Glass played backwards than have to listen to the mess that Bono wrote. What should happen if it goes to Vegas is they should hire an actual Broadway composer to write a new score. Of course that won't happen since one of the only selling points is Bono's name. But that would be the only thing that would ever get me to see this horror again.
I have never celebrated the closing of a show before. But this one has literally ruined several peoples lives and I am delighted that it is ending.
Now living in DC. I really have to change my name on the board.
Brian07663NJ
Broadway Legend
joined:6/21/06
Spider man closing.... enough said
Posted: 11/19/13 at 10:10am
hysterical to read at least one comments: "Oh I guess I should see this before it closes."

Last night when I saw the 11pm news broadcast that it was closing I knew this would be a hot thread. Now what are ya'll going to gripe about. haha

It seriously wasn't "the" worst show in the world.
Up next: Apr 01 Hedwig and the Angry Inch; Apr 05 Charo at RamsHead OnStage; Apr 07 Lady Gaga at Roseland Ballroom; Apr 13 Amaluna next to Citi Field; Apr 18 Disney Junior at MSG Theatre; May 06 Aladdin; May 13 Artpop Ball Lady Gaga at MSG; Jun 07 Varekai in Bridgeport, CT Jul 12 1:30pm Side Show; Jul 12 8:30pm Fantasia w/National Symphony Orchestra; Aug 16 The Visit: Williamstown Festival
Liza's Headband
Broadway Legend
joined:5/28/13
Spider man closing.... enough said
Posted: 11/19/13 at 12:06pm
"With so much estimating being done, obviously my numbers are probably not a real indication, but I did it just to get a sense of what they've made and what the best case scenario is for them. "

You absolutely did not. For the record.
TheatreDiva90016
Broadway Legend
joined:4/10/04
Spider man closing.... enough said
Posted: 11/19/13 at 01:35pm
I now see that BWW has removed 'Next stop, Las Vegas' from their headline....
"TheatreDiva90016 - another good reason to frequent these boards less."<<>> “I hesitate to give this line of discussion the validation it so desperately craves by perpetuating it, but the light from logic is getting further and further away with your every successive post.” <<>> -whatever2
suestorm
Broadway Legend
joined:1/15/13
Spider man closing.... enough said
Posted: 11/19/13 at 02:10pm
Lets remember, Turn Off The Dark got to 1,000,000 customers faster than any other musical in history. Lots of people saw it and loved it.
FINDINGNAMO, SNAFU, THEATERDIVE, JORDANCATALONO, LIZASHEADBAND, PALJOEY: You all claim to "IGNORE ME" I wish you would and stop constantly commenting on my posts. Thanks ...................................................................................................................................... The MOST POPULAR and DANGEROUS Poster on BWW! Banned by the PTA, PTC and the MEANGIRLS of BWW..................................................................................................................... ...Ukraine Girls really knock me out, they leave the west behind..........................
ClydeBarrow
Broadway Legend
joined:6/20/12
Spider man closing.... enough said
Posted: 11/19/13 at 02:14pm
"Lets remember, Turn Off The Dark got to 1,000,000 customers faster than any other musical in history."

Because all the people who lost money on the show care about that distinction.
"Pardon my prior Mcfee slip. I know how to spell her name. I just don't know how to type it." -Talulah
jetts7
Leading Actor
joined:5/22/11
Spider man closing.... enough said
Posted: 11/19/13 at 02:15pm
Saw a tweet saying maybe "Rebecca" could go into the Foxwoods.
jetts7
Leading Actor
joined:5/22/11
Spider man closing.... enough said
Posted: 11/19/13 at 02:17pm
They just announced that on January 4 the show will be closing.

closing
Yero my Hero
Broadway Legend
joined:3/27/05
Spider man closing.... enough said
Posted: 11/19/13 at 03:16pm
Also, operating costs usually include any Royalties paid out to people to whom they are owed.

Actually, that's not exactly true. The operating costs can include the minimum royalties owed, but royalties are often much higher than that, because they are based on a percentage of profit (usually 50% pre-recoupment).

Let's say, not including the royalty minimum, there are $95,000 of hard weekly operating costs. The musical pulls in $1.2 million. That leaves $25,000 of profit - half of which immediately goes to royalty holders, even though only their minimum of $5,000 is included in the "official" figure.

So that leaves an actual profit of $12,500 to the investors to pay back the capitalization.

It is possible they negotiated a lower percentage, but it would still be significant.

Finally, with the delayed preview period and the legal troubles and the extensive re-write of the show, the producers took out some large priority loans to cover the additional expenses. These may not be part of the original capitalization of $75k (I don't know, but based on the numbers I have heard, I am guessing they are added on top). Either way, those priority loans MUST be repaid before they can BEGIN to pay back the capitalization. I agree with bk, the investors have probably received nothing.

It seems like it should be simple mathematics, but it is anything but.
Nothing matters but knowing nothing matters. ~ Wicked
Everything in life is only for now. ~ Avenue Q
There is no future, there is no past. I live this moment as my last. ~ Rent

"He's a tramp, but I love him."
suestorm
Broadway Legend
joined:1/15/13
Spider man closing.... enough said
Posted: 11/19/13 at 03:32pm
"Lets remember, Turn Off The Dark got to 1,000,000 customers faster than any other musical in history."

Because all the people who lost money on the show care about that distinction.

ARE YOU ONE OF THE INVESTORS? IF NOT HOW DO YOU KNOW WHAT THEY CARE ABOUT. I WOULD THINK THEY DO CARE THAT WITH ALL THEIR HARD WORK AND ALL THE SCRUTINY THEY HAVE RECEIVED, ALOT OF PEOPLE SAW THEIR SHOW. IN FACT, MORE PEOPLE SAW IT, FASTER THAN ANY IN HISTORY
FINDINGNAMO, SNAFU, THEATERDIVE, JORDANCATALONO, LIZASHEADBAND, PALJOEY: You all claim to "IGNORE ME" I wish you would and stop constantly commenting on my posts. Thanks ...................................................................................................................................... The MOST POPULAR and DANGEROUS Poster on BWW! Banned by the PTA, PTC and the MEANGIRLS of BWW..................................................................................................................... ...Ukraine Girls really knock me out, they leave the west behind..........................
bk
Broadway Legend
joined:7/20/03
Spider man closing.... enough said
Posted: 11/19/13 at 03:33pm
Yero my Hero posts actual sense here. Not conjecture. Everyone thinks they're an expert and that this is all "easy" because some grosses are posted on the Internet and everyone's an expert. Nothing is easy, no one knows anything about it except the participants, but common sense will tell you all you need to know. Simple mathematics? It is to laugh. Bwayto, sorry, but yes you can post anything you like anywhere, which means anyone can respond to it in any way they like. Thus, the Internet. As to anonymous faceless people, I think I'm about the least anonymous on this board. :) I'm glad you're in school and doing well and I'm glad you write for Broadway World, but I just don't see the "productive" and "relevant" part - guessing, yes, I see guessing.


qolbinau
Broadway Legend
joined:6/29/08
Spider man closing.... enough said
Posted: 11/19/13 at 03:54pm
Yero that is still simple mathematics lol. The detail of those additional expenses must belong either in the category initial investment or running/on-going costs. It is easy. The only issue here is that we don't know the detail, and if bk you can provide that with your experience feel free. But there is no need to pretend that wrinkles and a balding head are required to make these calculations. At a high level I think everyone here does 'get it'.
Yero my Hero
Broadway Legend
joined:3/27/05
Spider man closing.... enough said
Posted: 11/19/13 at 04:08pm
The detail of those additional expenses must belong either in the category initial investment or running/on-going costs. It is easy.

They don't, and I explained why.

The only issue here is that we don't know the detail

Those details are the difference between 67% paid back and 0% paid back. If you don't understand everywhere the money goes before the investors see a dime, then no, you don't "get it."

On a very basic level, I'm sure we all understand how the stock market works, too. You invest some money, when the market does well, you get more money. But I am not going to post on a message board full of stockbrokers, pretending I know all about it and say, "What? It's basic math, lol."
Nothing matters but knowing nothing matters. ~ Wicked
Everything in life is only for now. ~ Avenue Q
There is no future, there is no past. I live this moment as my last. ~ Rent

"He's a tramp, but I love him."
Updated On: 11/19/13 at 04:08 PM
Liza's Headband
Broadway Legend
joined:5/28/13
Spider man closing.... enough said
Posted: 11/19/13 at 04:30pm
THANK YOU, YERO, FOR THE DETAILED REBUTTAL. I mentioned this in my initial post and the kid, who is somehow employed by Broadwayworld (do they vet?), completely brushed it off. Looking forward to his reaction to your post.
suestorm
Broadway Legend
joined:1/15/13
Spider man closing.... enough said
Posted: 11/19/13 at 05:06pm
In my case at least Turn Off The Dark made me a big fan of Broadway and theater. i loved this show, saw it 3 times and im going to try and see it once more. My friends have similar stories.

My family has always gone to alot of shows and aside from the few here and there, i begged out if i could. Once i saw this for the first time, one of the first previews, it blew me away. the music, sets everything. Even the HOLDS were kind of exciting. it really made me want to see shows all the time. Now i go to a couple a month.

I am sad to see it go.





FINDINGNAMO, SNAFU, THEATERDIVE, JORDANCATALONO, LIZASHEADBAND, PALJOEY: You all claim to "IGNORE ME" I wish you would and stop constantly commenting on my posts. Thanks ...................................................................................................................................... The MOST POPULAR and DANGEROUS Poster on BWW! Banned by the PTA, PTC and the MEANGIRLS of BWW..................................................................................................................... ...Ukraine Girls really knock me out, they leave the west behind..........................
Updated On: 11/19/13 at 05:06 PM
ClydeBarrow
Broadway Legend
joined:6/20/12
Spider man closing.... enough said
Posted: 11/19/13 at 05:09pm
"In my case at least Take Back The Dark made me a big fan of Broadway and theater."

You loved it so much that you don't know the correct title?
"Pardon my prior Mcfee slip. I know how to spell her name. I just don't know how to type it." -Talulah

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