Steel Pier...was it really that bad?- Page 2

[bleurose]

Posted: 6/16/08 at 1:14pm

I agree with many that the score is marvelous and that the book had real problems. I have seen a much more intimate production which worked better.

I heard that the reason the show closed so quickly is that Roger Berlind (producer) was involved with both The Life and Steel Pier and after the Tonys, they could only keep one of the shows open. The Life won TWO Tonys (Featured Actor and Actress) and Steel Pier didn't win anything (out of 11 nominations!) and so they kept The Life open and shuttered Steel Pier.

What was truly amazing to me is that the score for Titanic (which I consider to be pablum for the most part) beat the score for Steel Pier. Sigh...

[Jon]

Posted: 6/16/08 at 1:29pm

Yes, the show was developed for Ziemba.

I particularly had a problem with her big Act 2 number, "Running In Place." Ziemba sang and danced brilliantly, but the number was just... wrong. Musically, it sounded more like late 1940's jazz than early 1930's cheesy dance band - like a leftover song from City of Angels". The choreography started like recycled Michael Bennett/Donna McKechnie Tick-Tock/Music and the Mirror. Then poor KZ had to do a whole section spinning around on a flagplole like a modern day stripper poledancing. Shame on you, Susan Stroman!

Yet somehow, after that long, exhausting dance sequence, KZ managed to belt the crap out of the end chorus.

[frontrowcentre2]

Posted: 6/16/08 at 2:15pm

Unlike most of the people that have posted, I actually did see the show just 3 days after the 1997 Tony awards. And no, it wasn't bad at all. (People forget that it got better reviews than any of the other new musicals that season and was favoured to win the Tony.)

Compared to other shows of the 1996/97 season, STEEL PIER was one of the better ones. Better overall than TITANIC. Far better than THE LIFE and far better than JEKYLL & HYDE, both of which ran longer. Still, it was not as good as CHICAGO. CHICAGO was edgy. STEEL PIER was ... pleasant. It was not a chore to sit through, although the book needed some reworking. Unlike Jon, I have found the cast album most enjoyable and revisit it often.

I wonder why your cast hated it. And if they did hate the show I can only guess at the sloppy, unenthusiatic performances they gave. (Why anyoen would audition for a show they hated is beyond me.) Anyone seeing YOUR production would come away with the attitude that this was a deserved flop. On the other hand a good production by an enthusiastic cast could reverse that opinion.

I am always much more impressed when a school/community theatre group take a flawed or failed show and turn it into an enjoyable show. STEEL PIER is one of those shows that can benefit from a creative director working with a dedicated cast.

Updated On: 6/16/08 at 02:15 PM

[Mattbrain]

Posted: 10/10/08 at 11:11am

I think it's one of Kander and Ebb's most beautiful scores but the book is an absolute mess. My God! I didn't see it but I bought the script and I could barely follow what was going on to save my life.

[Gothampc]

Posted: 10/10/08 at 12:05pm

Since this thread was bumped, I'll add my perspective.

Bad material, tepid star, poor direction

The book and music of the show are seriously lacking pizazz. I think Kander & Ebb were a bit peeved that they couldn't musicalize "They Shoot Horses" so they pushed forward with mediocre material. The material is third rate including the songs.

When I saw the show it was lacking energy. Karen Ziemba is no Liza Minnelli/Gwen Verdon/Chita Rivera. She just doesn't have the star quality to carry the show. She is a very vanilla performer. There is nothing that differentiates her from a thousand other chorus girls.

In the performance I saw, the audience didn't come alive until Debra Monk did "Everybody's Girl". It was as if the first 45 minutes of the show was in a coma. And once Monk's energy left center stage, Act 1 took a nosedive.

The direction of the show was the third element that caused this show to go into a coma. Scott Ellis had no business directing a new musical on Broadway. He didn't have the gravitas to stand up to Kander/Ebb/Thompson and say "Go in a room and I don't want to see you until you have first rate material." The end of Act 1 had all the actors running around in a circle when it should have had a huge dance number with everyone full front. Ellis didn't seem to realize that Steel Pier is A SHOW ABOUT DANCING.

What if:
If Michael Bennett was still alive, he could have whipped it into an excellent show.

If Hal Prince had directed, he could have pressed Kander/Ebb for better songs.

If an actress that didn't blend into the scenery were hired, she may have been able to pull the mediocre material up with her.

[Jon]

Posted: 10/10/08 at 12:18pm

Why do people keep bumping this thread? It's like re-opening an old wound.

[Mattbrain]

Posted: 10/10/08 at 12:43pm

Because some of us didn't get a chance to see this show in its original production and we'd like to revisit a little piece of theatre history (good or bad)

[Ed_Mottershead]

Posted: 10/10/08 at 1:08pm

I saw the orginal SP while it was in late previews. My comment at the time was that when it danced, it was fabulous. The score was okay, with a few really good numbers, but not top-drawer Kander and Ebb; the book, however, was AWFUL. Everyone in it was fine and God knows they worked their a_____s off, but the show just didn't gel. IMO.

[frontrowcentre2]

Posted: 10/10/08 at 1:14pm

Of the people who have posted about the show, who saw the original Broadway production?

[Gothampc]

Posted: 10/10/08 at 1:18pm

"Of the people who have posted about the show, who saw the original Broadway production?"

Me.

[Ed_Mottershead]

Posted: 10/10/08 at 1:47pm

Me, too.

[Amalia Balash]

Posted: 10/10/08 at 1:59pm

I'm not a big Kander and Ebb fan. But I liked their score for Steel Pier enough that I've always wanted to see the show in some form. And that's a lot more than I can say for Titanic.

[Mr Roxy]

Posted: 10/10/08 at 6:05pm

I enjoyed it a lot. Any K & E show has a lot going for it from the beginning.

[Jon]

Posted: 10/10/08 at 7:32pm

I saw it... and thanks to technology and knowing the right people, I can see it again and again...

[nobodyhome]

Posted: 10/10/08 at 8:00pm

I saw the show three times and I loved it.

That having been said, it had a lot of problems, and I do think that a different director could have made a difference. Some of the score is not top-drawer and I agree with the person who said that Hal Prince would have said, "Sorry, John and Fred, that song's not good enough." Or "That song is just wrong dramatically."

"Running in Place" in particular didn't accomplish what it needed to do. It gave Rita too much self-knowledge. And the choreography for it didn't go anywhere interesting.

I liked the book more than most people, but I agree that the supporting players needed just a bit more to give them more depth. Better to spend a little time on that than to spend more time on mediocre Stroman choreography. I disagree with those who think it was a great dance show. Maybe it should have been a great dance show, but I thought another problem with it was Stroman's not terribly interesting work. Obviously, the show did need a good deal of dance, but I don't get Stroman at all.

And the physical production looked nice but was all wrong. It was light and airy, perhaps reflecting the ghostly side of the story. But it needed to feel oppressive, at least when we were inside.

But I still found the show very moving.

And Karen Ziemba was great.

[[tos]fan999]

Posted: 10/11/08 at 12:02am

My school did this show last year, and as people have said before, the score is pretty good but the book is very bad. I was fortunate to be running the soundboard for it.

But it does have some great songs. Everybody's Girl brought down the house every night and got a standing ovation on the closing performance.

And it was fun to watch our Rita do this ridiculous choreography during Running In Place.

[frontrowcentre2]

Posted: 10/11/08 at 11:52am

Of the people who have posted about the show, who saw the original Broadway production?"
Me.

Ed_Mottershead
Me, too.

So only 3 of us – myself included – actually saw this. The rest seem to know it only thru the cast album, published script and high school productions.

The comment IT WAS BAD. A disaster. A nightmare of a production experience. baffles me. Now maybe I have the advantage(?) of having seen shows that were real nightmares/disasters. This wasn’t at that level at all. Problematic, yes. Needing cutting and clarification, certainly, but
the performance I caught just after the Tony awards was playing confidently and was very well received. The first act drags at times when the focus is not on the 3 main characters and I agree with whoever posted that revealing the hero dead at curtain up was a mistake but apparently early audiences were not getting it without that scene. (Even with the scene some didn’t get it.) I felt then - and nothing has changed my mind – that if the show had had the benefit of a regional or out-of-town production some of these issues could have been addressed.

The score is uneven but (for me) far more enjoyable than CURTAIANS and “Second Chance”, “The Last Girl” and “First You Dream” are (I think) among Kander & Ebb’s finest songs. The vitriol aimed at “Running in Place” seems mis-placed. True the song is not as strong as the moment called for but two other numbers were far far more detrimental. One is “Everybody’s Girl” which is not as great a song as everyone believes – it’s just Deborah Monk did a sensational job of selling it. But that isn’t the problem: It’s presented as an entertainment song done by a relatively minor character and pulls the focus from the main love story at a time when we really needed to be drawn into it.

The second detrimental number was an operetta parody (Kristen Chenoweth in her B’way debut) called “Two Little Words.” It is an intentionally horrible song saddled with some desperate attempts at funny staging. Anyone doing the show should seriously consider dropping it.

Because the secondary characters are so poorly defined, songs like “Somebody Older” become stage waits, and the dancing – starting with flash and gradually becoming more lethargic as the exhausted marathon performers trudge through their paces is necessary for the story but really zaps the show of energy – and that is problem built into the structure. The only way to overcome this is to keep the dancers in the background and place the dramatic scenes in front of them.

Still I found more to enjoy than not (* * * ½ out of 5) and the original reviews were quite strong compared to the other new musicals that season:

STEEL PIER (5 Favourable, 8 mixed, 3 Unfavourable)
The LIFE (4 Favourable, 4 Mixed and 7 Unfavourable)
JEKYLL & HYDE (4 Favourable, 4 mixed and 7 Unfavourable)
TITANIC (1 Favourable, 5 Mixed and 9 Unfavourable)

TITANIC did have very loud, vocal support from Tony host Rosie. I was in New York that week to cover the Tony Awards for the magazine I was working for at the time. STEEL PIER was generally expected to win but the ONLY show we knew for certain would win was the revival of CHICAGO. It made for a fun awards evening – more fun than when everyone assumes one show WILL win and it does.

The suggestion (in another thread) that TITANIC won by promising a road tour is bogus. NONE of the nominated shows had definite plans to tour (Variety noted that TITANIC’s massive set design would make it an unlikely road prospect.) The subject matter of THE LIFE would limit it’s road potential. (It never did tour.) I think this has grown from the AVENUE Q/WICKED battle fueled by mis-information speculated by Michael Riedel that road presenters have far more clout than they actually have. ALL shows hope to eventually tour, and Tony voters representing the roadhouses know this. What was on the horizon was the movie TITANTIC slated to hit theatres later that same year. No one knew how well it would do but hedging on it’s success with the possibility of a road tour of the musical around the same time may have swayed some Tony voters, but in the end the dramatic story of TITANIC simply came across to most as the least flawed of the new shows.

I think with a new director, some rewriting, and a new production concept STEEL PIER is the one show from the 96/97 season that is most worthy of re-examination.

Updated On: 10/11/08 at 11:52 AM

[Rathnait62]

Posted: 10/11/08 at 1:46pm

I saw it as well. Multiple times. And I posted the sentences you're quoting. Sorry, but I worked in the office where the general managing of STEEL PIER took place. I know what I'm talking about when I say "nightmare of a production experience."

I do agree with you that it should have tried out out of town - it was way too closely watched and criticized at every step of the way due to the high level of anticipation and buzz surrounding it. But that added to/created the disaster of the situation.

[Jon]

Posted: 10/11/08 at 7:14pm

Since we keep coming back to it...

"Everybody's Girl" is a great song... for piano bars and drag queens. Unfortunately, it's supposed to be being performed in 1933 - ON A RADIO BROADCAST. There is no way in hell that a song with so many double entendres would ever be performed on radio at that time.

[nobodyhome]

Posted: 10/11/08 at 7:30pm

"So only 3 of us – myself included – actually saw this."

Reading through this thread, it seems to me that more than three people saw it. Not everyone who posted earlier in the thread came back to post after the question was asked as to how many people saw it, but judging from the posts earlier in the thread, it sounds like a bunch of them saw it (though perhaps some of them didn't actually see it live, it's hard to be sure nowadays).

And after the question was asked (but before your post that I quoted appeared), the following posters replied in the affirmative:

Gothampc
EdMottershead
MrRoxy (at least it sounds like he's saying he saw it)
nobodyhome (Datsa me)
Jon

Plus you.

And since then rathnait62 had made it clear that he or she saw it.
Updated On: 10/11/08 at 07:30 PM

[Mr Roxy]

Posted: 10/11/08 at 10:23pm

Nobody

For the record, when I said I saw something I did. I indeed saw this one .

[frontrowcentre2]

Posted: 10/11/08 at 10:37pm

Looking up something unrelated, I just grabbed my copy of Ken Mandelbaum's book THE HAPPIEST CORPSE I'VE EVER SEEN which is basically his rant against the dumbing down of Broadway over the last 25 (or so) years. He has high praise for STEEL PIER saying, "The Kander and Ebb score is one of their best, with that strange concoction of the captivating and the meaningful that, of their generation only Bock and Harnick have also mastered." He also felt it was a "superb staging."

Since you worked on it Rathnait62 maybe you can shed some light on what was happening behind the scenes that pushed the property so far off the rails.

As I said of all the shows I have seen it was far from being anywhere near the bottom of the list. I think Barry Manilow's COPACABANA is probably the worst thing I have ever seen on stage. Now THAT was a disaster.

[Gothampc]

Posted: 10/11/08 at 10:44pm

If Steel Pier was one of their best scores, then why isn't the music more known? The songs "Cabaret" and "All That Jazz" are very well known. Have any mainstream cabaret artists used music from Steel Pier in their act?

[Rathnait62]

Posted: 10/11/08 at 10:58pm

I didn't literally work on it. I worked in the office where it was general managed. Shared space.

I do think what I said upthread had a lot to do with it - it had a huge amount of hype and was being watched very carefully because it didn't have the cushion and safety of an out-of-town tryout, talked about everywhere and that talk of course made its way to the creative table. The pressure was tremendous and perhaps the wrong things were changed.

Mandelbaum's claim of "superb staging" makes me think he's got his shows mixed up. There was not much "superb" about the staging. I also would say the score is better in hindsight - people who didn't see the show listen to the OBCR with the knowledge that it was a flop, which can tend to make a mediocre score sound better. "It wasn't THAT bad!"

[Jon]

Posted: 10/11/08 at 11:31pm

As far as "staging", the ensemble dance numbers were well choreographed.

There were some great moments of stage craft, such as the production number where the boardwalk transformed into an airplane, with dancing girls "wing walking" as in the movie "Flying Down To Rio".

Also, in the opening scene, Rita (Karen Z.) frolicked in the surf in her bare feet, and the lighting actually showed the blue waves moving in and out (visible from the mezzanine only).

And, from a musician's point of view, there was a heart-stopping moment in the instrumental break in "Willing to Ride", where the horns play a sequence of overlapping notes (known as a "brass pyramid" I think), and the letters S-T-E-E-L-P-I-E-R lit up in time to the music.