NYTIMES: The controversey over the direction of JOE TURNER by a white man
NYTIMES: The controversey over the direction of JOE TURNER by a white man
#1NYTIMES: The controversey over the direction of JOE TURNER by a white man
Posted: 4/23/09 at 2:25amhttp://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/23/theater/23wils.html?hp
"Y'know, I think Bertolt Brecht was rolling in his grave."
-Nellie McKay on the 2006 Broadway production of The Threepenny Opera, in which she played Polly Peachum
-Nellie McKay on the 2006 Broadway production of The Threepenny Opera, in which she played Polly Peachum
WiCkEDrOcKS
Broadway Legend Joined: 6/13/04
#2re: NYTIMES: The controversey over the direction of JOE TURNER by a white man
Posted: 4/23/09 at 9:20am
Thanks for posting, Bustopher.
Interesting read...
Gothampc
Broadway Legend Joined: 5/20/03
#2re: NYTIMES: The controversey over the direction of JOE TURNER by a white m
Posted: 4/23/09 at 9:49am
It's always the white man's fault isn't it?
How come none of the whiners in this article don't mention George C. Wolfe? Did they phone him at the Public and make a stink about not getting to direct?
Have they phoned Oprah or Bill Cosby or other black people with money and ask them to finance a show that they can direct?
Or even worse, did they put their own money into the show like so many other people have done to get their careers going?
If anyone ever tells you that you put too much Parmesan cheese on your pasta, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
Phyllis Rogers Stone
Broadway Legend Joined: 9/16/07
#3re: NYTIMES: The controversey over the direction of JOE TURNER by a white m
Posted: 4/23/09 at 10:06amJesus, who said anything about fault?
#4re: NYTIMES: The controversey over the direction of JOE TURNER by a white m
Posted: 4/23/09 at 10:33amAw jeez...Sher is the new Spielberg, apparently.
"What can you expect from a bunch of seitan worshippers?" - Reginald Tresilian
#5re: NYTIMES: The controversey over the direction of JOE TURNER by a white m
Posted: 4/23/09 at 11:50amEven the cast was semi-condescending. "He really didn't know much, but we taught him well."
"Sing the words, Patti!!!!" Stephen Sondheim to Patti LuPone.
#6re: NYTIMES: The controversey over the direction of JOE TURNER by a white m
Posted: 4/23/09 at 11:56amthey have a right to be.
"I'm an American, Damnit!!! And if it's three things I don't believe in, it's quitting and math."
Roscoe
Broadway Legend Joined: 5/15/03
#7re: NYTIMES: The controversey over the direction of JOE TURNER by a white m
Posted: 4/23/09 at 12:04pmWhen Spielberg directs something as intelligently as Sher directed JOE TURNER'S COME AND GONE and CYMBELINE, I'll publicly support Dick Cheney.
"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about the answers." Thomas Pynchon, GRAVITY'S RAINBOW
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." Philip K. Dick
My blog: http://www.roscoewrites.blogspot.com/
#8re: NYTIMES: The controversey over the direction of JOE TURNER by a white m
Posted: 4/23/09 at 12:09pmoh, snap.
"I'm an American, Damnit!!! And if it's three things I don't believe in, it's quitting and math."
Vespertine1228
Broadway Legend Joined: 10/30/05
#9re: NYTIMES: The controversey over the direction of JOE TURNER by a white m
Posted: 4/23/09 at 12:25pm
Thomas Kail, who directed the all-Latino In the Heights will direct the all-black Wiz this summer at City Center and the all-black play Broke-ology at Lincoln Center in the fall.
I agree that the issue of opportunity is what's key here. A good director can direct anything. Race shouldn't be an issue in terms of choosing people. You're directing the play, not creating the play's content. That's the writer's job.
Phyllis Rogers Stone
Broadway Legend Joined: 9/16/07
#10re: NYTIMES: The controversey over the direction of JOE TURNER by a white m
Posted: 4/23/09 at 12:26pm
Even the cast was semi-condescending. "He really didn't know much, but we taught him well."
You realize that quotation marks are generally reserved for actual quotes, not to project your own agenda onto something, right? Are you suggesting that as a general rule white people are knowledgeable about what it's like to be black in America?
Updated On: 4/23/09 at 12:26 PM
#11cracker directs blue-gums in a minstrel
Posted: 4/23/09 at 12:30pmlawdy, them crackas dun't knows a dayum thang 'bout no blue-gums and dey ain't nevah gwana 'cuz theys too pale. shoot. be like a gay directing straights.
r.i.p. marco, my guardian angel.
...global warming can manifest itself as heat, cool, precipitation, storms, drought, wind, or any other phenomenon, much like a shapeshifter. -- jim geraghty
pray to st. jude
i'm a sonic reducer
he was the gimmicky sort
fenchurch=mejusthavingfun=magwildwood=mmousefan=bkcollector=bradmajors=somethingtotalkabout: the fenchurch mpd collective
...global warming can manifest itself as heat, cool, precipitation, storms, drought, wind, or any other phenomenon, much like a shapeshifter. -- jim geraghty
pray to st. jude
i'm a sonic reducer
he was the gimmicky sort
fenchurch=mejusthavingfun=magwildwood=mmousefan=bkcollector=bradmajors=somethingtotalkabout: the fenchurch mpd collective
Phyllis Rogers Stone
Broadway Legend Joined: 9/16/07
#12cracker directs blue-gums in a minstrel
Posted: 4/23/09 at 12:34pmWell, I can understand why someone might not want papa to direct an August Wilson play.
#13cracker directs blue-gums in a minstrel
Posted: 4/23/09 at 12:35pmI don't disagree with Mr. Wilson's wishes about his work or question his rights as a playwright to have them honored, but let's be honest: if a white playwright insisted that only a white director could direct his work, and had it written into his will, the cries of racial discrimination would be deafening.
Cheyenne Jackson tickled me. AFTER ordering SoMMS a drink but NOT tickling him, and hanging out with Girly in his dressing room (where he DIDN'T tickle her) but BEFORE we got married. To others. And then he tweeted Boobs. He also tweeted he's good friends with some chick on "The Voice" who just happens to be good friends with Tink's ex. And I'm still married. Oh, and this just in: "Pettiness, spite, malice ....Such ugly emotions... So sad." - After Eight, talking about MEEEEEEEE!!! I'm so honored! :-)
#14cracker directs blue-gums in a minstrel
Posted: 4/23/09 at 12:36pmi be teachin' thems coloreds 'bout his-to-ree!
r.i.p. marco, my guardian angel.
...global warming can manifest itself as heat, cool, precipitation, storms, drought, wind, or any other phenomenon, much like a shapeshifter. -- jim geraghty
pray to st. jude
i'm a sonic reducer
he was the gimmicky sort
fenchurch=mejusthavingfun=magwildwood=mmousefan=bkcollector=bradmajors=somethingtotalkabout: the fenchurch mpd collective
...global warming can manifest itself as heat, cool, precipitation, storms, drought, wind, or any other phenomenon, much like a shapeshifter. -- jim geraghty
pray to st. jude
i'm a sonic reducer
he was the gimmicky sort
fenchurch=mejusthavingfun=magwildwood=mmousefan=bkcollector=bradmajors=somethingtotalkabout: the fenchurch mpd collective
#15cracker directs blue-gums in a minstrel
Posted: 4/23/09 at 12:39pmdeet, please, with everything else white people have, can't you let him have this? omg! i mean with the savage oppression facing the colored people every day under this draconian presidential administration they need any good news they can. i mean it's not like a young colored kid can expect to grow up to be president or anything.
r.i.p. marco, my guardian angel.
...global warming can manifest itself as heat, cool, precipitation, storms, drought, wind, or any other phenomenon, much like a shapeshifter. -- jim geraghty
pray to st. jude
i'm a sonic reducer
he was the gimmicky sort
fenchurch=mejusthavingfun=magwildwood=mmousefan=bkcollector=bradmajors=somethingtotalkabout: the fenchurch mpd collective
...global warming can manifest itself as heat, cool, precipitation, storms, drought, wind, or any other phenomenon, much like a shapeshifter. -- jim geraghty
pray to st. jude
i'm a sonic reducer
he was the gimmicky sort
fenchurch=mejusthavingfun=magwildwood=mmousefan=bkcollector=bradmajors=somethingtotalkabout: the fenchurch mpd collective
#16cracker directs blue-gums in a minstrel
Posted: 4/23/09 at 12:44pmPRS- No, I'm not stating that that. For all I know, there could've been more to the quote (and yes, I know that generally quotes are used to quote actual items. I'll make it clear next time for you especially), and the NY Times just decided to take out certain items. But from what was stated, no one in the cast seems to give Sher any credit for anything. And I find it hard to believe that he didn't contribute something.
"Sing the words, Patti!!!!" Stephen Sondheim to Patti LuPone.
Phyllis Rogers Stone
Broadway Legend Joined: 9/16/07
#17cracker directs blue-gums in a minstrel
Posted: 4/23/09 at 12:48pmI think you ought to read the article again, without being blinded by your righteous caucasian pride.
Phyllis Rogers Stone
Broadway Legend Joined: 9/16/07
#18cracker directs blue-gums in a minstrel
Posted: 4/23/09 at 12:49pm
I don't disagree with Mr. Wilson's wishes about his work or question his rights as a playwright to have them honored, but let's be honest: if a white playwright insisted that only a white director could direct his work, and had it written into his will, the cries of racial discrimination would be deafening.
You are absolutely right. Of course, Wilson didn't have it written into his will, so I don't know what the point is.
#19cracker directs blue-gums in a minstrel
Posted: 4/23/09 at 12:50pmphyllis can help you with that. he truly hates the fact that he was cursed with whiteness and would gladly skin himself to relieve the guilt he harbors daily over being both white and male. damn you white males everywhere! you are the problem!!!
r.i.p. marco, my guardian angel.
...global warming can manifest itself as heat, cool, precipitation, storms, drought, wind, or any other phenomenon, much like a shapeshifter. -- jim geraghty
pray to st. jude
i'm a sonic reducer
he was the gimmicky sort
fenchurch=mejusthavingfun=magwildwood=mmousefan=bkcollector=bradmajors=somethingtotalkabout: the fenchurch mpd collective
...global warming can manifest itself as heat, cool, precipitation, storms, drought, wind, or any other phenomenon, much like a shapeshifter. -- jim geraghty
pray to st. jude
i'm a sonic reducer
he was the gimmicky sort
fenchurch=mejusthavingfun=magwildwood=mmousefan=bkcollector=bradmajors=somethingtotalkabout: the fenchurch mpd collective
Phyllis Rogers Stone
Broadway Legend Joined: 9/16/07
#20cracker directs blue-gums in a minstrel
Posted: 4/23/09 at 12:54pmYep, it's white males like ME who are the problem.
#21cracker directs blue-gums in a minstrel
Posted: 4/23/09 at 12:55pm
I don't know if I think it's institutional racism, as Mr. McClinton said, or more Lincoln Center wanting Bartlett Sher to direct a vast majority of their projects.
I do agree, however, that there isn't a level playing field for black directors on Broadway, and perhaps a black director would've aided this production.
oh, and this quote? "And from the start he was so collaborative. He would say, 'I know this,' and we would say, 'Yeah, but you don't know this.'"
First of all, I think it's important to go into any production not claiming you know everything. I believe it's important for directors to learn from their actors and vice-versa. it's especially important to go into a production that's so rooted in a specific time and culture being able to admit some ignorance. Sher's an outsider in some ways - you don't know what he was able to learn from his cast. I'm sure they know more about being black in a major city in 1911 than he does.
as for Charles S. Dutton's comment, I think it'd be unfortunate if it holds true that Sher's success would bar future black directors from getting the chance to direct on the Broadway level. however, I think it's important for works of all writers, playwrights, composers, artists, etc to be examined and interpreted by scholars, actors, directors, musicians of all ethnic and racial backgrounds. I think the same thing is true for major white writers. I think it's important for every ethnic group to be able to interpret and reevaluate Shakespeare (for example), and have the ability to present it at the highest level. the more points of view there are evaluating a work, the more relevance it has, and the more the audiences can appreciate it.
that's my opinion, anyway.
When I see the phrase "the ____ estate", I imagine a vast mansion in the country full of monocled men and high-collared women receiving letters about productions across the country and doing spit-takes at whatever they contain.
-Kad
Updated On: 4/23/09 at 12:55 PM
#22cracker directs blue-gums in a minstrel
Posted: 4/23/09 at 1:12pm
You're right, Phyllis - I was under the impression it had been written into his will but I obviously misread the article.
Cheyenne Jackson tickled me. AFTER ordering SoMMS a drink but NOT tickling him, and hanging out with Girly in his dressing room (where he DIDN'T tickle her) but BEFORE we got married. To others. And then he tweeted Boobs. He also tweeted he's good friends with some chick on "The Voice" who just happens to be good friends with Tink's ex. And I'm still married. Oh, and this just in: "Pettiness, spite, malice ....Such ugly emotions... So sad." - After Eight, talking about MEEEEEEEE!!! I'm so honored! :-)
Updated On: 4/23/09 at 01:12 PM
Gothampc
Broadway Legend Joined: 5/20/03
#23cracker directs blue-gums in a minstrel
Posted: 4/23/09 at 2:25pm
I want to bring up George C. Wolfe again.
A few of the shows he brought to Broadway were "Jelly's Last Jam" "Twilight: Los Angeles 1992" "Bring in Da Noise..." "Top Dog/Underdog" and "Caroline or Change".
Some of these black artists are complaining because they "don't get the chance." But Wolfe is the model to follow. Do what he did to keep working.
IMO, it's not about having a chance. It's that these directors are just not that talented.
If anyone ever tells you that you put too much Parmesan cheese on your pasta, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
Updated On: 4/23/09 at 02:25 PM
#24cracker directs blue-gums in a minstrel
Posted: 4/23/09 at 3:09pmWell, I'm glad you've cleared that up.
